Five Heinous Crimes = Samaya Breaker ?
Five Heinous Crimes = Samaya Breaker ?
Why would someone who receives an empowerment and fails to practice and maintain their samaya be reborn in Avici Hell along with sentient beings who have committed the five heinous crimes?
To become a rain man one must master the ten virtues and sciences.
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Re: Five Heinous Crimes = Samaya Breaker ?
Because he or she becomes extremely deluded.
Re: Five Heinous Crimes = Samaya Breaker ?
Can you please expand on that?
To become a rain man one must master the ten virtues and sciences.
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Re: Five Heinous Crimes = Samaya Breaker ?
They realize the depth of their karma and creates hell instead of nirvana. It fuddles natural compassion to the point where only hell and retribution exists whereas proper conduct would allow one to enter reality, see things as they are and have all their sins forgiven etc..
One good nembutsu will also acheive that.
Re: Five Heinous Crimes = Samaya Breaker ?
What if someone lost their faith in Vajrayana and continued to practice Dharma while letting their samaya deteriorate for the rest of their life?Wicked Yeshe wrote: ↑Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:00 pmThey realize the depth of their karma and creates hell instead of nirvana. It fuddles natural compassion to the point where only hell and retribution exists whereas proper conduct would allow one to enter reality, see things as they are and have all their sins forgiven etc..
One good nembutsu will also acheive that.
To become a rain man one must master the ten virtues and sciences.
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Re: Five Heinous Crimes = Samaya Breaker ?
Honen and Shinran did that and they're obviously fine.
Re: Five Heinous Crimes = Samaya Breaker ?
Wicked Yeshe wrote: ↑Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:19 pm Honen and Shinran did that and they're obviously fine.
To become a rain man one must master the ten virtues and sciences.
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Re: Five Heinous Crimes = Samaya Breaker ?
They both lost faith in vajrayana and obviously abandoned their samaya but were still saved by the grace of Amida. To myself it's a question of pride. Not letting go of old pats on the back related to my past vajrayana practice. Like there is something promising about my life but still it all turns into nembutsu and inner koan stuff. Hard to explain..
Sorry if i confused you.
Someone else should try to answer your questions.
Sorry if i confused you.
Someone else should try to answer your questions.
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Re: Five Heinous Crimes = Samaya Breaker ?
Honen was a tendai monk so didn't have samaya, because if I understand it correctly tendai only practice the lower tantras.Wicked Yeshe wrote: ↑Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:33 pm They both lost faith in vajrayana and obviously abandoned their samaya but were still saved by the grace of Amida. To myself it's a question of pride. Not letting go of old pats on the back related to my past vajrayana practice. Like there is something promising about my life but still it all turns into nembutsu and inner koan stuff. Hard to explain..
"Morality does not become pure unless darkness is dispelled by the light of wisdom"
- Aryasura, Paramitasamasa 6.5
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Re: Five Heinous Crimes = Samaya Breaker ?
I see. Shingon has samaya, though?Lobsang Chojor wrote: ↑Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:48 pmHonen was a tendai monk so didn't have samaya, because if I understand it correctly tendai only practice the lower tantras.Wicked Yeshe wrote: ↑Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:33 pm They both lost faith in vajrayana and obviously abandoned their samaya but were still saved by the grace of Amida. To myself it's a question of pride. Not letting go of old pats on the back related to my past vajrayana practice. Like there is something promising about my life but still it all turns into nembutsu and inner koan stuff. Hard to explain..
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Re: Five Heinous Crimes = Samaya Breaker ?
Only the lower tantras were transmitted to Japan, the only commitments they would have would be practice commitments but I don't know how widespread they are in Japanese vajrayana.Wicked Yeshe wrote: ↑Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:50 pmI see. Shingon has samaya, though?Lobsang Chojor wrote: ↑Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:48 pm Honen was a tendai monk so didn't have samaya, because if I understand it correctly tendai only practice the lower tantras.
"Morality does not become pure unless darkness is dispelled by the light of wisdom"
- Aryasura, Paramitasamasa 6.5
Re: Five Heinous Crimes = Samaya Breaker ?
They did not have samaya in highest yoga tantras since it never existed in Japan.Wicked Yeshe wrote: ↑Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:33 pm They both lost faith in vajrayana and obviously abandoned their samaya but were still saved by the grace of Amida.
Re: Five Heinous Crimes = Samaya Breaker ?
failing to practice is not a problem. Failing to maintain samaya, however, is.
You need to review the fourteen root downfalls.
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Re: Five Heinous Crimes = Samaya Breaker ?
I think i read in "The weaving of mantra" that Shingon entails samaya. I got them mixed up then.Malcolm wrote: ↑Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:54 pmThey did not have samaya in highest yoga tantras since it never existed in Japan.Wicked Yeshe wrote: ↑Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:33 pm They both lost faith in vajrayana and obviously abandoned their samaya but were still saved by the grace of Amida.
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Re: Five Heinous Crimes = Samaya Breaker ?
I see. Since i have taken no samaya and turned almost exclusively to the nembutsu i will not speculate more. I do look forward to reading some replies to his questions though.Lobsang Chojor wrote: ↑Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:52 pmOnly the lower tantras were transmitted to Japan, the only commitments they would have would be practice commitments but I don't know how widespread they are in Japanese vajrayana.Wicked Yeshe wrote: ↑Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:50 pmI see. Shingon has samaya, though?Lobsang Chojor wrote: ↑Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:48 pm Honen was a tendai monk so didn't have samaya, because if I understand it correctly tendai only practice the lower tantras.
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Re: Five Heinous Crimes = Samaya Breaker ?
Lower tantra samaya.Wicked Yeshe wrote: ↑Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:02 pm Hey! What is this?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samaya#Shingon_Buddhism
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Re: Five Heinous Crimes = Samaya Breaker ?
Are they just the same commitments as the bodhisattva vows?Malcolm wrote: ↑Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:10 pmLower tantra samaya.Wicked Yeshe wrote: ↑Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:02 pm Hey! What is this?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samaya#Shingon_Buddhism
"Morality does not become pure unless darkness is dispelled by the light of wisdom"
- Aryasura, Paramitasamasa 6.5
Re: Five Heinous Crimes = Samaya Breaker ?
basically.Lobsang Chojor wrote: ↑Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:20 pmAre they just the same commitments as the bodhisattva vows?Malcolm wrote: ↑Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:10 pmLower tantra samaya.Wicked Yeshe wrote: ↑Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:02 pm Hey! What is this?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samaya#Shingon_Buddhism
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Re: Five Heinous Crimes = Samaya Breaker ?
Wonder why they're called samaya then. The mystery gains density..
But you're basically saying that higher samaya is worse to break than the basic precepts? Is it possible to "do a Shinran and Honen" and become a pure land buddhist having taken samaya?
But you're basically saying that higher samaya is worse to break than the basic precepts? Is it possible to "do a Shinran and Honen" and become a pure land buddhist having taken samaya?