Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham
-
- Posts: 415
- Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2018 10:10 pm
-
- Posts: 2753
- Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 12:29 am
Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham
did CTR had the same conducts? i havn't heard a word on him.
true dharma is inexpressible.
The bodhisattva nourishes from bodhicitta, through whatever method the Buddha has given him. Oh joy.
The bodhisattva nourishes from bodhicitta, through whatever method the Buddha has given him. Oh joy.
-
- Posts: 7885
- Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 6:13 am
Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham
So Shambhala makes people take a vow so that they won’t have any other teachers? Now that is messed up!
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham
I was thinking the same thing when I heard that.
We live in illusion and the appearance of things. There is a reality. We are that reality. When you understand this, you see that you are nothing, and being nothing, you are everything. That is all. - Kalu Rinpoche
- dzogchungpa
- Posts: 6333
- Joined: Sat May 28, 2011 10:50 pm
Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham
#metoo
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham
Thanks for sharing @mandog
I know that the guru - disciple catch22 situation created in vajrayana has already extensively been an issue.
But it remains unresolved and hence is still an issue.
In particular since I feel the texts to rely on don't help much because the focus on the sudent's obligations and take the realizedness of the master rather for granted.
Though that doesn't give an answer, I take the liberty to share part of the comment James Low gives in his book Simply Being on
The Expansixe Oral Instructions of the Precious Dharma Master, Chetsangpa Ratna Sri Buddha translation hoping that this is of help or at least does not harm
I know that the guru - disciple catch22 situation created in vajrayana has already extensively been an issue.
But it remains unresolved and hence is still an issue.
In particular since I feel the texts to rely on don't help much because the focus on the sudent's obligations and take the realizedness of the master rather for granted.
Though that doesn't give an answer, I take the liberty to share part of the comment James Low gives in his book Simply Being on
The Expansixe Oral Instructions of the Precious Dharma Master, Chetsangpa Ratna Sri Buddha translation hoping that this is of help or at least does not harm
Ho! All the possible appearances and existences of samsara and nirvana have the same source, yet two paths and two results arise as the magical display of awareness and unawareness.
HO NANG SRI KHOR DAE THAMCHE KUN ZHI CHIG LAM NYI DRAE BU NYI RIG DANG MA RIG CHOM THRUL TE
HO NANG SRI KHOR DAE THAMCHE KUN ZHI CHIG LAM NYI DRAE BU NYI RIG DANG MA RIG CHOM THRUL TE
Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham
Ho! All the possible appearances and existences of samsara and nirvana have the same source, yet two paths and two results arise as the magical display of awareness and unawareness.
HO NANG SRI KHOR DAE THAMCHE KUN ZHI CHIG LAM NYI DRAE BU NYI RIG DANG MA RIG CHOM THRUL TE
HO NANG SRI KHOR DAE THAMCHE KUN ZHI CHIG LAM NYI DRAE BU NYI RIG DANG MA RIG CHOM THRUL TE
-
- Posts: 7885
- Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 6:13 am
Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham
Forget the sex activity of any individual. If Shambhala really makes people vow to not have any other teachers ... That’s institutionally a much bigger deal. I don’t understand how these two women can drop that bomb and just skip over it.
Edited
Edited
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
-
- Posts: 131
- Joined: Sat Jun 20, 2015 8:37 pm
- Location: Boulder, CO
Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham
That was one of the biggest reasons I stopped going further in the Shambhala path years ago. It's strange because they paint it as a normal thing that every teacher would ask for, but I've never really seen any other guru demand that they have one and only one guru.
Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham
Most lamas would probably tell you about all the different teachers they've had and how each one has helped them.chimechodra wrote: ↑Thu Jul 05, 2018 1:09 pm That was one of the biggest reasons I stopped going further in the Shambhala path years ago. It's strange because they paint it as a normal thing that every teacher would ask for, but I've never really seen any other guru demand that they have one and only one guru.
After all, a student is to follow the behaviour of the bee to begin with, visiting all the different flowers...
-
- Posts: 7885
- Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 6:13 am
Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham
I’m amazed that this hasn’t been discussed before.
Ok, so what are the details? Is it fealty to Sakyong Mipham R? Or whoever is in charge of the local center? What’s the deal?
Ok, so what are the details? Is it fealty to Sakyong Mipham R? Or whoever is in charge of the local center? What’s the deal?
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham
What? Yes, it's incredibly weird and nonsensical that Shambhala makes their students vow not to have any other teachers. However, I think Sakyong Mipham sexually assaulting multiple women and then knowing members within Shamabhala cover it up is way more problematic.smcj wrote: ↑Thu Jul 05, 2018 11:54 am Forget the sex activity of any individual. If Shambhala really makes people vow to not have any other teachers that puts it in the same catagory as the NKT imo. That’s institutionally a much bigger deal. I don’t understand how these two women can drop that bomb and just skip over it.
- How foolish you are,
grasping the letter of the text and ignoring its intention!
- Vasubandhu
Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham
To the Sakyong.
Several years ago I tried to bring another teacher to the Boston Shambhala Center (which used to be a normal practice) and got the most bizarre rejection based upon loyalty to their teacher. This shift seemed to start around 2010.
I’ve also been surprised that people aren’t discussing the extraordinary ease with which one becomes an “acharya” in this organization. That’s a serious title and frankly, Shambhala acharyas are not acharyas of anything outside their own peculiar set of practices.
"All phenomena of samsara depend on the mind, so when the essence of mind is purified, samsara is purified. Since the phenomena of nirvana depend on the pristine consciousness of vidyā, because one remains in the immediacy of vidyā, buddhahood arises on its own. All critical points are summarized with those two." - Longchenpa
Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham
Do you think that strategy was specifically meant to contain sex scandals/abuse allegations, or just damage control as a whole for any potential scandal that could come up?
- How foolish you are,
grasping the letter of the text and ignoring its intention!
- Vasubandhu
Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham
It’s like any other abusive, controlling relationship. If they saw the other options they might leave. It’s about control, power, and revenue.
Western students are Sakyongs source of power, wealth, and influence. He needs them in order to continue the legacy of exploitation.
"All phenomena of samsara depend on the mind, so when the essence of mind is purified, samsara is purified. Since the phenomena of nirvana depend on the pristine consciousness of vidyā, because one remains in the immediacy of vidyā, buddhahood arises on its own. All critical points are summarized with those two." - Longchenpa
- dzogchungpa
- Posts: 6333
- Joined: Sat May 28, 2011 10:50 pm
Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham
Well, I'll have to look into this a little, but I don't know if it's as simple as what Lama Tsultrim said. E.g., I believe that Pema Chodron is part of the Shambhala org and for sure Dzigar Kongtrul is her main teacher now. Also, I saw Tsoknyi Rinpoche teach at the Berkeley Shambhala center not all that long ago.
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham
There are some long standing relationships with other teachers that still bring them into Shambhala centers.dzogchungpa wrote: ↑Thu Jul 05, 2018 4:48 pm Well, I'll have to look into this a little, but I don't know if it's as simple as what Lama Tsultrim said. E.g., I believe that Pema Chodron is part of the Shambhala org and for sure Dzigar Kongtrul is her main teacher now. Also, I saw Tsoknyi Rinpoche teach at the Berkeley Shambhala center not all that long ago.
"All phenomena of samsara depend on the mind, so when the essence of mind is purified, samsara is purified. Since the phenomena of nirvana depend on the pristine consciousness of vidyā, because one remains in the immediacy of vidyā, buddhahood arises on its own. All critical points are summarized with those two." - Longchenpa
-
- Posts: 415
- Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2018 10:10 pm
Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham
Not to minimize what seems to be a disturbing situation, but I have heard that there is actually not a vow. Apparently, Shambhala students are just told that studying with other teachers will simply be too much of a time commitment, and accordingly, Shambhala teachers discourage it. This information is based off of a post on a public Shambhala facebook group where the above video is being discussed so maybe take it with a grain of salt (i.e. I have little ability to assess its accuracy).