Symptoms Before Vajra Hell

[Norwegian]

Breaking samaya can be easy to do.

Fixing samaya is just as easy and a hell of a lot of fun too: You invite around all your yogi and yogini friends and give them loads of alcohol and meat, sing songs, dance and during the party some of them may even get laid.

What if you can't arrange or get to tsogs? Only Dharma Center which arrange tsogs moved far away. Last time I participate was 2 years ago. 35 buddhas? But I can't do it daily. Gelugpas say to do 28 short Vajrasattvas.

You should ask your teacher what to do.

[pael]

Fixing samaya is just as easy and a hell of a lot of fun too: You invite around all your yogi and yogini friends and give them loads of alcohol and meat, sing songs, dance and during the party some of them may even get laid.

What if you can't arrange or get to tsogs? Only Dharma Center which arrange tsogs moved far away. Last time I participate was 2 years ago. 35 buddhas? But I can't do it daily. Gelugpas say to do 28 short Vajrasattvas.

You should ask your teacher what to do.

I asked from him which is best purification practice. He is Nyingma. He gave short mantra. I wonder why it differs from Gelug version. Can I be Gelugpa, if I follow TDR and ChNN?

[Norwegian]

What if you can't arrange or get to tsogs? Only Dharma Center which arrange tsogs moved far away. Last time I participate was 2 years ago. 35 buddhas? But I can't do it daily. Gelugpas say to do 28 short Vajrasattvas.

You should ask your teacher what to do.

I asked from him which is best purification practice. He gave short mantra. He is Nyingma. I wonder why it differs from Gelug version. Can I be Gelugpa, if I follow TDR and ChNN?

I don't understand the "problem" you have here. You asked your teacher, he gave you a short mantra. Why don't you just practice that then?

[pael]

You should ask your teacher what to do.

I asked from him which is best purification practice. He gave short mantra. He is Nyingma. I wonder why it differs from Gelug version. Can I be Gelugpa, if I follow TDR and ChNN?

I don't understand the "problem" you have here. You asked your teacher, he gave you a short mantra. Why don't you just practice that then?

I'm waiting he writes practice text for me. His secretary said that I receive it soon.

[Norwegian]

I asked from him which is best purification practice. He gave short mantra. He is Nyingma. I wonder why it differs from Gelug version. Can I be Gelugpa, if I follow TDR and ChNN?

I don't understand the "problem" you have here. You asked your teacher, he gave you a short mantra. Why don't you just practice that then?

I'm waiting he writes practice text for me. His secretary said that I receive it soon.

Great.

[Fortyeightvows]

When was the last time you came across an Arhat? A Buddha?

Maybe we run in different circles.
Anyways, what do arhats and look like?

[Josef]

Think about it for a bit.
These threads are filled with advice (and jokes) about how to avoid hell.
Most of the advice is "do this or that elaborate ritual practice and you'll be fine" followed by "what if I cant do that practice?"

This is anxiety provoking religious dogmatism. Rather than concerning ourselves with rituals etc. how about actually working with our minds and purifying them?

Every teacher has implored us to cultivate bodhicitta. Simplify, relax, and actually practice dharma and there will be no hell for anyone.

[Sherab Rigdrol]

Think about it for a bit.
These threads are filled with advice (and jokes) about how to avoid hell.
Most of the advice is "do this or that elaborate ritual practice and you'll be fine" followed by "what if I cant do that practice?"

This is anxiety provoking religious dogmatism. Rather than concerning ourselves with rituals etc. how about actually working with our minds and purifying them?

Every teacher has implored us to cultivate bodhicitta. Simplify, relax, and actually practice dharma and there will be no hell for anyone.

Excellent post!

[Grigoris]

Maybe we run in different circles.

Yeah, I am sure we do.

[WeiHan]

When was the last time you came across an Arhat? A Buddha?

Maybe we run in different circles.
Anyways, what do arhats and look like?

Correct me if I am wrong. Arhat has to be a monk and they do not take rebirth like Bodhisattvas to benefit beings. By this reason, an Arhat has to be someone who practiced alot of meditation in that very life that they attain arhathood. Therefore, the circle for a potential arhat is greatly narrowed. It is unlike Bodhisattvas who can appear as prostitutes, someone who looks lazy and slept all day long, butchers, and even animals etc..It is definitely more difficult to identify a bodhisattva than an arhat.

[MatthewAngby]

Breaking samaya can be easy to do.

Fixing samaya is just as easy and a hell of a lot of fun too: You invite around all your yogi and yogini friends and give them loads of alcohol and meat, sing songs, dance and during the party some of them may even get laid.

If you want guilt fueled self-mortification and penance then I would recommend Opus Dei.

I wouldn't be so sure of that..we never know who someone really is.

Don't be stupid. When was the last time you came across an Arhat? A Buddha? Somehow I don't think Motova has set up his own sangha by making Vinaya holding monastics leave the dispensation.

I would suppose u are saying tsog. So I was reading it up, very interesting. What is the Vajrayāna view on meat and alcohol. I support these two, but always do not have enough details to support my view. Tell me grigoris..

[kalden yungdrung]

Tenma

How on earth do you put grass in your head without dying? A brain surgery? Doubt that works.

Menri Phowa - 00.jpg (26.82 KiB) Viewed 4855 times

http://kwling.org/menri-phowa-retreat-2 ... ticipants/

As a sign of the mastered Phowa, one can put a stalk of Kusha Grass in the tiny little hole of the head.
The Tsa Kang Technic, causes a little hole at the door of Brahma. Then the Rinpoche put a stalk of grass inside the hole.

Signs of progress are an itching feeling on the top of the head on that spot and some puss comes out.
The hole closes after that very fast.

So the technic of Tsa Kang causes that tiny little hole and never a brain surgery.

During live we have to maintain that Technic of shooting up / Tsa Kang (once a day) , so that when a person dies , he/she can shoot out the Mind, right on out of the heart direction door of Brahma, and can proceed in that way with the illusionary Body.

viewtopic.php?f=78&t=21644

[dzogchungpa]

[Tenma]

the guessing has begun!

Going to Vajra hell is no easy task.

These are the actions which lead to rebirth there:

1. Intentionally killing one's father.
2. Intentionally killing one's mother.
3. Killing an Arhat (enlightened being).
4. Shedding the blood of a Buddha.
5. Creating a schism within the Sangha, the community of Buddhist monks, nuns and laypersons who try to attain enlightenment (eternal happiness).

So we can almost instantly exclude 3,4 and 5.

That leads matricide and patricide. I find it highly unlikely that motova intentionally killed their mother or father recently, so the likelihood that they are going to avici is pretty bloody low, to almost non-existent. Even if they did, it is more likely that they will go to jail, than avici hell, right now.

So I am going with the initial diagnosis of unfounded anxiety and/or Abrahamic guilt habits.

For number 5, does once being part of a group that caused a schism previously lead you to Avici Hell? For example, let's say one joined the group of Devadatta after he caused a schism, then after some time, the person left. Does the person break one of the 5?

[Josef]

the guessing has begun!

Going to Vajra hell is no easy task.

These are the actions which lead to rebirth there:

1. Intentionally killing one's father.
2. Intentionally killing one's mother.
3. Killing an Arhat (enlightened being).
4. Shedding the blood of a Buddha.
5. Creating a schism within the Sangha, the community of Buddhist monks, nuns and laypersons who try to attain enlightenment (eternal happiness).

So we can almost instantly exclude 3,4 and 5.

That leads matricide and patricide. I find it highly unlikely that motova intentionally killed their mother or father recently, so the likelihood that they are going to avici is pretty bloody low, to almost non-existent. Even if they did, it is more likely that they will go to jail, than avici hell, right now.

So I am going with the initial diagnosis of unfounded anxiety and/or Abrahamic guilt habits.

For number 5, does once being part of a group that caused a schism previously lead you to Avici Hell? For example, let's say one joined the group of Devadatta after he caused a schism, then after some time, the person left. Does the person break one of the 5?

No, they didnt create the schism.

[Tenma]

Going to Vajra hell is no easy task.

These are the actions which lead to rebirth there:

1. Intentionally killing one's father.
2. Intentionally killing one's mother.
3. Killing an Arhat (enlightened being).
4. Shedding the blood of a Buddha.
5. Creating a schism within the Sangha, the community of Buddhist monks, nuns and laypersons who try to attain enlightenment (eternal happiness).

So we can almost instantly exclude 3,4 and 5.

That leads matricide and patricide. I find it highly unlikely that motova intentionally killed their mother or father recently, so the likelihood that they are going to avici is pretty bloody low, to almost non-existent. Even if they did, it is more likely that they will go to jail, than avici hell, right now.

So I am going with the initial diagnosis of unfounded anxiety and/or Abrahamic guilt habits.

For number 5, does once being part of a group that caused a schism previously lead you to Avici Hell? For example, let's say one joined the group of Devadatta after he caused a schism, then after some time, the person left. Does the person break one of the 5?

No, they didnt create the schism.

Okay good! I wasn't sure if any association with such groups would cause anyone to join them to join Avici.

[narraboth]

From what I read, Avīci is not Vajra Hell. Many texts indicate that 'only samaya breakage leads one to Vajra Hell, no other karma would'. Vajra Hell may be kind of Avīci though.

Avici is the lowest hell.

Vajra hell is different from any hell described in sutrayana, including avici, according to <luminous tantra> qouted by Toga Yishi Norbu.

[PeterC]

From what I read, Avīci is not Vajra Hell. Many texts indicate that 'only samaya breakage leads one to Vajra Hell, no other karma would'. Vajra Hell may be kind of Avīci though.

Avici is the lowest hell.

Vajra hell is different from any hell described in sutrayana, including avici, according to <luminous tantra> qouted by Toga Yishi Norbu.

That is very interesting - could you share the reference?

[Schrödinger’s Yidam]

I can’t source it, but I remember Avivi Hell as being the lowest hell in samsara. It is the ultimate agonies tha can still be experienced dualisticly.

I remember Vajra Hell as bering described as total tantric union with the essence of suffering.

In any case it’s not something you want.

[AlexanderS]

Im told by malcolm that suicide also can lead to vajra hell. I dont know what kind of symptoms indicate your going to hell, but ive had visionary experiences of hell beings progressing with detoration of my mental and psychical health, so i definitely feel like im on a downward trajectory.