Five Heinous Crimes = Samaya Breaker ?

[Malcolm]

But you're basically saying that higher samaya is worse to break than the basic precepts?

Of course.

[pael]

Why would someone who receives an empowerment and fails to practice and maintain their samaya be reborn in Avici Hell along with sentient beings who have committed the five heinous crimes?

failing to practice is not a problem. Failing to maintain samaya, however, is.

You need to review the fourteen root downfalls.

Patrul (WOMPT) says HYT samaya takers must do 21 hundred-syllable mantras every day, because everyone makes the fourteen root downfalls every day. Does it matter if I do it twice a year? How many times it is for a short mantra?

[Wicked Yeshe]

But you're basically saying that higher samaya is worse to break than the basic precepts?

Of course.

Can you explain why? It seems as if the basic ones are the foundation and samaya is extra. Why is the pyramid upside down so to speak? It would seem that a basic vow not to kill is heavier than let's say a vow not to eat garlic. But theoretically eating garlic can be worse than eating meat? How is it so?

[Motova]

Why would someone who receives an empowerment and fails to practice and maintain their samaya be reborn in Avici Hell along with sentient beings who have committed the five heinous crimes?

failing to practice is not a problem. Failing to maintain samaya, however, is.

You need to review the fourteen root downfalls.

How many times it is for a short mantra?

For the short Vajrasattva I think it's a full mala.

[MiphamFan]

Dylan, why are you so worried about this? Just follow ChNN's advice: guruyoga helps maintain all samayas.

[Motova]

Dylan, why are you so worried about this?

I have a lot of anxiety due to Vajrayana....

There are so many unknowns, surprises, disagreements, and abuses and it all focuses into an anxiety over Vajra Hell.

[pael]

Dylan, why are you so worried about this? Just follow ChNN's advice: guruyoga helps maintain all samayas.

Who is Dylan? I took webcast WWT 4 years after my first initiation. Almost instantly I committed root downfall. I then made parrot-mouth confessions monthly. 3 and a half years passed and I received webcast WWT. Dudjom Rinpoche in Perfect Conduct says: if teacher receive disciple who broke samaya (root downfall) over 3 years goes to hell with disciple. And now ChNN is sick.

[Wicked Yeshe]

Dylan, why are you so worried about this?

I have a lot of anxiety due to Vajrayana....

You're not alone.

[Malcolm]

But you're basically saying that higher samaya is worse to break than the basic precepts?

Of course.

Can you explain why? It seems as if the basic ones are the foundation and samaya is extra. Why is the pyramid upside down so to speak? It would seem that a basic vow not to kill is heavier than let's say a vow not to eat garlic. But theoretically eating garlic can be worse than eating meat? How is it so?

Its not actually your business since you have zero interest in Vajrayāna.

[Motova]

Dylan, why are you so worried about this?

I have a lot of anxiety due to Vajrayana....

There are so many unknowns, surprises, disagreements, and abuses and it all focuses into an anxiety over Vajra Hell.

And then that anxiety makes me not practice, and it turns into a very uncomfortable cycle of fear and resentment.

[Wicked Yeshe]

Of course.

Can you explain why? It seems as if the basic ones are the foundation and samaya is extra. Why is the pyramid upside down so to speak? It would seem that a basic vow not to kill is heavier than let's say a vow not to eat garlic. But theoretically eating garlic can be worse than eating meat? How is it so?

Its not actually your business since you have zero interest in Vajrayāna.

True. I was abused by the tibetans and turned back to pure land because of the sheer hipocrisy i saw in the tibetan community. But still i will find out.

[Norwegian]

Can you explain why? It seems as if the basic ones are the foundation and samaya is extra. Why is the pyramid upside down so to speak? It would seem that a basic vow not to kill is heavier than let's say a vow not to eat garlic. But theoretically eating garlic can be worse than eating meat? How is it so?

Its not actually your business since you have zero interest in Vajrayāna.

True. I was abused by the tibetans and turned back to pure land because of the sheer hipocrisy i saw in the tibetan community. But still i will find out.

You won't. These things are self-secret.

[Wicked Yeshe]

I'm protected and sanctioned by higher buddhist forces than demonic lucifer dorje. I will see everything. No relevant question will remain unanswered.

[Malcolm]

But still i will find out.

Not likely.

[Sādhaka]

Pael,

The three year thing is provisional.

Rinpoche wrote that there’s a text where Vajrasattva says you have as many years to purify, as the age you were when you committed the downfall. It is just that after three years it becomes more difficult.

[Motova]

I'm protected and sanctioned by higher buddhist forces than demonic lucifer dorje. I will see everything. No relevant question will remain unanswered.

Ugh, take it somewhere else.

[Wicked Yeshe]

I'm protected and sanctioned by higher buddhist forces than demonic lucifer dorje. I will see everything. No relevant question will remain unanswered.

Ugh, take it somewhere else.

Sure! Peace to all.

[Motova]

Dylan, why are you so worried about this?

I have a lot of anxiety due to Vajrayana....

There are so many unknowns, surprises, disagreements, and abuses and it all focuses into an anxiety over Vajra Hell.

And then that anxiety makes me not practice, and it turns into a very uncomfortable cycle of fear and resentment.

I'm going to talk to my Lamas and ask around so I can solve this ASAP.

I think the only solution is talking to my Lamas more and practicing more (to increase faith in Vajrayana)... or I can go to sutra Mahayana.

[Vasana]

I have a lot of anxiety due to Vajrayana....

There are so many unknowns, surprises, disagreements, and abuses and it all focuses into an anxiety over Vajra Hell.

And then that anxiety makes me not practice, and it turns into a very uncomfortable cycle of fear and resentment.

I'm going to talk to my Lamas and ask around so I can solve this ASAP.

I think the only solution is talking to my Lamas more and practicing more (to increase faith in Vajrayana)... or I can go to sutra Mahayana.

Yes do both and be honest with them. Recognize that Guru Rinpoche isn't seperate from Chenrezig or Amitabah. Also try reading the life stories of previous masters to inspire faith and trust in the Vajrayana. Look even at the current Dalai Lama for example or any teacher who possess the qualities and mental stability we would like to embody in this life let alone beyond this life.

It's good to be apprehensive about commitments but ultimately they're there for our own good.

[heart]

I have a lot of anxiety due to Vajrayana....

There are so many unknowns, surprises, disagreements, and abuses and it all focuses into an anxiety over Vajra Hell.

And then that anxiety makes me not practice, and it turns into a very uncomfortable cycle of fear and resentment.

I'm going to talk to my Lamas and ask around so I can solve this ASAP.

I think the only solution is talking to my Lamas more and practicing more (to increase faith in Vajrayana)... or I can go to sutra Mahayana.

That is a good idea. I general, don't take empowerments from random lamas. Don't take advice from random people you meet in various Sangha's. And, try to relax a little, the aim of Dharma is not to freak people out.

/magnus