Is this sexual misconduct?

A forum for discussion of Buddhist ethics.
chrishaigh
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2023 10:41 am

Is this sexual misconduct?

Post by chrishaigh »

Hello,
I've just joined this site to ask a specific question that's been bothering me.
I'm a middle-aged married man, father to a young son, and lead a pretty contented life, very much a family man. I consider myself a Buddhist and think it has helped me greatly in terms of day-to-day life - I'm never envious of what others have, for example, and have become far less judgmental than I used to be. To me, Buddhism makes a lot of practical sense and certainly makes life better. I do try to be good to people, without being sanctimonious.
Well in case you haven't guessed where this is leading, I meet up with another woman every couple of weeks. She is also married. It is very enjoyable and consensual on both sides and something both of us need for its own sake, with no strings attached. At the time I never feel guilty about it in the least, even though I know it would hurt my wife a great deal if she knew. Since nobody is ever likely to find out, though, I tell myself it's a harmless, occasional pleasure that simply fills a physical need in life.
I've never tried to write this down before, and now that I have I must say it looks pretty awful.
I'm not trying to convince myself I'm right, but maybe some of you could convince me why it's wrong? I don't drink or smoke or gamble, and I do try hard to help others, so is giving in to this one human weakness such a bad thing? And how would I go about giving it up? That's the really tough part.
I look forward to any replies, thank you.
User avatar
Tao
Posts: 400
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:05 am
Location: Barcelona, Spain
Contact:

Re: Is this sexual misconduct?

Post by Tao »

If it hurts another person (potentially), it's misconduct.

So it is. I'm sorry. Be brave and fix things up.

Anyway noone is perfect. Do the best you can.
Knotty Veneer
Posts: 967
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2012 1:50 pm

Re: Is this sexual misconduct?

Post by Knotty Veneer »

Any sexual activity that has the potential to cause harm is sexual misconduct.

It's not just because you are breaking your marriage vows, it also that you are lying to your wife who thinks you are still being faithful.

I think you already know from what you said that it is wrong.

You need to stop it and address the issues - perhaps with a therapist or a marriage counselor - that make your married relationship unsatisfactory.
This is not the wrong life.
reiun
Posts: 978
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2020 4:08 pm
Location: Florida USA

Re: Is this sexual misconduct?

Post by reiun »

chrishaigh wrote: Fri Jun 02, 2023 11:09 am Hello,
I've just joined this site to ask a specific question that's been bothering me.
I'm a middle-aged married man, father to a young son, and lead a pretty contented life, very much a family man. I consider myself a Buddhist and think it has helped me greatly in terms of day-to-day life - I'm never envious of what others have, for example, and have become far less judgmental than I used to be. To me, Buddhism makes a lot of practical sense and certainly makes life better. I do try to be good to people, without being sanctimonious.
Well in case you haven't guessed where this is leading, I meet up with another woman every couple of weeks. She is also married. It is very enjoyable and consensual on both sides and something both of us need for its own sake, with no strings attached. At the time I never feel guilty about it in the least, even though I know it would hurt my wife a great deal if she knew. Since nobody is ever likely to find out, though, I tell myself it's a harmless, occasional pleasure that simply fills a physical need in life.
I've never tried to write this down before, and now that I have I must say it looks pretty awful.
This recognition is a good first start.
chrishaigh wrote: Fri Jun 02, 2023 11:09 am I'm not trying to convince myself I'm right, but maybe some of you could convince me why it's wrong?
The reason it's wrong is because it breaks vows that deserve respect, both marital and Buddhist, if those are what you have been trying to live by.

Getting back on the Eightfold Path means addressing Right Conduct in the context of all three people involved. For "the other woman" who has also taken marital vows, it means allowing her to try to honor them again by ending the affair with her. It is essential that you try to restore an honest relationship with your wife, in spite of her probable initial reaction to hearing that you have broken it, and the pain that that will cause. Coming to the full realization of the wrong you have done and admitting it, then addressing it in counseling, hopefully with your wife, is called for, and will help you give up the affair. Understanding and thus appreciating the value of your honest marital relationship should, too.
User avatar
PadmaVonSamba
Posts: 9438
Joined: Sat May 14, 2011 1:41 am

Re: Is this sexual misconduct?

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

chrishaigh wrote: Fri Jun 02, 2023 11:09 am maybe some of you could convince me why it's wrong? I don't drink or smoke or gamble, and I do try hard to help others, so is giving in to this one human weakness such a bad thing? And how would I go about giving it up? That's the really tough part.
I look forward to any replies, thank you.
Yes, it’s sexual misconduct, and you know it is, otherwise you wouldn’t be experiencing any mental conflict and wouldn’t have posted asking.

But I think this really brings up a wider issue:
Yes, the Buddha taught the eightfold path, and there are rules of conduct for monastics, but it’s not about whether “Buddha says so” or not. It’s not like a god saying you can’t eat pork, and that’s the only reason to not eat pork, or a doctor telling you that you can no longer eat certain foods, and like it or not, that’s just how it is.

Being an ethical or moral person (Buddhist or not) isn’t about following a checklist that somebody has created for you. Lots of people don’t drink or smoke or gamble or have affairs and yet they are still really awful human beings.

The rules in Buddhism are there for one reason, to guide you on the path to perfect realization and liberation from samsara. If you cheat on someone and you need to keep it a secret, that’s a weight of guilt that’s going to hold you back at some point. Maybe at the moment of death. If you cheat on someone and create suffering for them, that’s going to be a weight that delays your attainment of buddhahood or nirvana, whether you feel any remorse or not. So either way, it’s a lose-lose situation.

It’s not about “human weakness”. The way to give it up is to take responsibility for your own actions. If you are not at least strong enough to do that, then you really need to ask what’s going on, and what are you doing with your life.
EMPTIFUL.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
User avatar
Konchog1
Posts: 1673
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2011 4:30 am

Re: Is this sexual misconduct?

Post by Konchog1 »

If you have to ask, then you know it is on some level.
Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.

-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra

"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."

-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats
chrishaigh
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2023 10:41 am

Re: Is this sexual misconduct?

Post by chrishaigh »

Pretty unanimous then - yes it's plain wrong and has to stop.
Some words of wisdom there, could make an important difference to my life, so many thanks for taking the time to reply.
Malcolm
Posts: 42974
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Is this sexual misconduct?

Post by Malcolm »

chrishaigh wrote: Fri Jun 02, 2023 11:09 am Hello,
I've just joined this site to ask a specific question that's been bothering me.
I'm a middle-aged married man, father to a young son, and lead a pretty contented life, very much a family man. I consider myself a Buddhist and think it has helped me greatly in terms of day-to-day life - I'm never envious of what others have, for example, and have become far less judgmental than I used to be. To me, Buddhism makes a lot of practical sense and certainly makes life better. I do try to be good to people, without being sanctimonious.
Well in case you haven't guessed where this is leading, I meet up with another woman every couple of weeks. She is also married. It is very enjoyable and consensual on both sides and something both of us need for its own sake, with no strings attached. At the time I never feel guilty about it in the least, even though I know it would hurt my wife a great deal if she knew. Since nobody is ever likely to find out, though, I tell myself it's a harmless, occasional pleasure that simply fills a physical need in life.
I've never tried to write this down before, and now that I have I must say it looks pretty awful.
I'm not trying to convince myself I'm right, but maybe some of you could convince me why it's wrong? I don't drink or smoke or gamble, and I do try hard to help others, so is giving in to this one human weakness such a bad thing? And how would I go about giving it up? That's the really tough part.
I look forward to any replies, thank you.
Most definitely sexual misconduct. You owe it to your wife to tell her the truth.
User avatar
Könchok Thrinley
Former staff member
Posts: 3275
Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:18 am
Location: He/Him from EU

Re: Is this sexual misconduct?

Post by Könchok Thrinley »

At first I thought you just made a friend and have a cup of coffee together.

But since the friend has those benefits, yup its a sexual misconduct.
“Observing samaya involves to remain inseparable from the union of wisdom and compassion at all times, to sustain mindfulness, and to put into practice the guru’s instructions”. Garchen Rinpoche

For those who do virtuous actions,
goodness is what comes to pass.
For those who do non-virtuous actions,
that becomes suffering indeed.

- Arya Sanghata Sutra
pemachophel
Posts: 2228
Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2010 9:19 pm
Location: Lafayette, CO

Re: Is this sexual misconduct?

Post by pemachophel »

What you haven't explained are why your "needs" are not being met within the confines of your marriage vows. I have a feeling there is an elephant in the room we're not seeing.
Pema Chophel པདྨ་ཆོས་འཕེལ
User avatar
Johnny Dangerous
Global Moderator
Posts: 17089
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:58 pm
Location: Olympia WA
Contact:

Re: Is this sexual misconduct?

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

Definitely misconduct.

As Pemachopel indicates, it’s probably worth looking at the root of what’s driving this behavior. In the relationship, in you, or both.

It could just be random desire for sex of course, but it might be worth questioning that narrative.

There are some lines in a Pali Sutta that go something like “while experiencing that painful feeling, he seeks delight in sensual pleasure” “The uninstructed worldling knows of no escape from pain but sensual pleasure”

So, it is a nearly universal human experience to pursue pleasure in order to avoid pain, and to create habitual patterns of just this…I wonder if there might be a connection there.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared

-Khunu Lama
Miorita
Posts: 1069
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2022 11:37 pm
Location: US

Re: Is this sexual misconduct?

Post by Miorita »

You could instead practice for rebirth in the Pure Land of Buddha Amitābha.
tummo18
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2022 7:25 pm

Re: Is this sexual misconduct?

Post by tummo18 »

As mentioned, in regards to the unmet needs, I would find a good therapist and explore what is going on for you and what needs this is meeting for you and why you haven't felt you can meet them in your marriage. From there you can look at what would be the best way to navigate this to meet your needs and your wife's needs, and if you do decide to communicate it to her, how to do it skillfully.

Praying for you and wishing you well.
tingdzin
Posts: 1947
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2013 7:19 am

Re: Is this sexual misconduct?

Post by tingdzin »

Yeah, misconduct, but I disagree that you have to tell your wife it was going on when you break it off. Better let sleeping dogs lie rather than think you are somehow making things better by hurting your wife deeply.
reiun
Posts: 978
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2020 4:08 pm
Location: Florida USA

Re: Is this sexual misconduct?

Post by reiun »

If nothing is said, then that's the dog who lies: the lie of omission, the forever lie. The relationship can never be honest under such circumstances. The offense has been commited, and the wife deserves to be able to choose to work through the hurt, with or without the husband, or not. Likewise, the husband can work through the guilt by admitting it and recomiting to marriage, if allowed.
Toenail
Posts: 568
Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2016 10:06 am

Re: Is this sexual misconduct?

Post by Toenail »

Can't you just watch porn? It is pretty ethical, american and european porn stars have social security and rights etc., just stay away from shady pattaya stuff or whatever dark is buried in those places.
User avatar
justsit
Posts: 1466
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:24 pm
Location: Delaware

Re: Is this sexual misconduct?

Post by justsit »

Toenail wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 9:04 pm Can't you just watch porn? It is pretty ethical,american and european porn stars have social security and rights etc., just stay away from shady pattaya stuff or whatever dark is buried in those places.
Um, not exactly. You have to be 65 years old or disabled to get Social Security in the US.

It's not just the physical act that cheating spouses want, it's the excitement of something new and different, and the validation that they are still desirable.
User avatar
Dorje Shedrub
Posts: 438
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 11:23 pm
Location: Indiana, USA

Re: Is this sexual misconduct?

Post by Dorje Shedrub »

Toenail wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 9:04 pm Can't you just watch porn? It is pretty ethical, american and european porn stars have social security and rights etc., just stay away from shady pattaya stuff or whatever dark is buried in those places.
This is a poor recommendation. Don't substitute one addiction for another. Address the root cause.
Homage to the Precious Dzogchen Master
🙏🌺🙏 Chögyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche
🙏🌺🙏
User avatar
Johnny Dangerous
Global Moderator
Posts: 17089
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:58 pm
Location: Olympia WA
Contact:

Re: Is this sexual misconduct?

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

Lion & Tiger wrote: Sat Jun 10, 2023 3:45 am
Toenail wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 9:04 pm Can't you just watch porn? It is pretty ethical, american and european porn stars have social security and rights etc., just stay away from shady pattaya stuff or whatever dark is buried in those places.
Pūrṇa*-graphic acting is not by any stretch of the imagination, "right livelihood" (samyak-ajiva), and supporting it by being part of the audience (whether you actively pay money or just passively generate income for the providers by clicks, views, boosting their algorithms, advertisements, etc.) is also not a noble or spiritual or Buddhist thing to do. Frankly, it's base and degraded. To suggest that a man who is cheating on his wife should stop cheating and just masturbate to adult movies instead is a dreadful and unbelievable thing to say and wouldn't be a good recommendation anywhere, least of all within any kind of Buddhist sangha.


* English "porno" from Sanskrit "pūrṇa", "mature, complete, full grown".
If someone has trouble controlling their libido such thst the choice is between watching porn and cheating, then watching the porn is preferable, though certainly not ideal.

Moralizing and self righteousness however is unhelpful in nearly all circumstances.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared

-Khunu Lama
User avatar
Johnny Dangerous
Global Moderator
Posts: 17089
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:58 pm
Location: Olympia WA
Contact:

Re: Is this sexual misconduct?

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

Lion & Tiger wrote: Sat Jun 10, 2023 3:45 am
Toenail wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 9:04 pm Can't you just watch porn? It is pretty ethical, american and european porn stars have social security and rights etc., just stay away from shady pattaya stuff or whatever dark is buried in those places.
Pūrṇa*-graphic acting is not by any stretch of the imagination, "right livelihood" (samyak-ajiva), and supporting it by being part of the audience (whether you actively pay money or just passively generate income for the providers by clicks, views, boosting their algorithms, advertisements, etc.) is also not a noble or spiritual or Buddhist thing to do. Frankly, it's base and degraded. To suggest that a man who is cheating on his wife should stop cheating and just masturbate to adult movies instead is a dreadful and unbelievable thing to say and wouldn't be a good recommendation anywhere, least of all within any kind of Buddhist sangha.


* English "porno" from Sanskrit "pūrṇa", "mature, complete, full grown".
If someone has trouble controlling their libido such thst the choice is between watching porn and cheating, then watching the porn is preferable, though certainly not ideal.

Moralizing and self righteousness however is unhelpful in nearly all circumstances.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared

-Khunu Lama
Post Reply

Return to “Ethical Conduct”