Why so gray?

dharmafootsteps
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Re: Why so gray?

Post by dharmafootsteps »

jet.urgyen wrote: Sat May 27, 2023 7:57 pm
dharmafootsteps wrote: Sat May 27, 2023 6:59 pm For those who have been around the Western dharma scene for a few decades, were there more young people attending teachings in the past?
There where a lot in recent years here in the local DC group, we did lot of weekend retreats together. I mean people from 20 to 25 y.o., that's young for me (i was 33 at the time), excelent people, very committed to practice. All of them went to nyigma, drikung, and bon-buddhism systems after ChNN's departure. This hiatus was time for reflection for some.

Nowadays here's a lot also in the local Drikung center, also youngsters from 20 to 25 y.o., excelent people, very commited, very respectful.
Yeah, I’ve also met a reasonable number of young people through the DC. A few in their 20s, plenty in 30s, one extremely dedicated teenager.

Although there hasn’t really been any hiatus among the ones I know.
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climb-up
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Re: Why so gray?

Post by climb-up »

Related to what Malcolm said (well, kind of, I live a very worldly life and don’t get to many isolated retreats in …it is an aspiration for if I live long enough for my kids to get a bit older):

I’m not too gray.
I got a few grey hairs coming in, and definitely less hair on top than I used to, but if I were to have a normal lifespan I’m just about in the middle.
I also don’t really go to groups or centers.
I definitely don’t think I’m too good for them or anything like that, I just rarely participate in-person in anything.

I’ve taken one in-person extensive empowerment, and was able to make it to a couple classes and practices at the local DC ling when it was close by; other than that I’ve taken online transmissions and courses and just practice on my own.

Idk how representative, but jokes about not wanting to answer the phone, etc. make me think that this might be a little bit normal, in which case it might be hard to tell.

Also, my one in-person empowerment was with Dr. Nida and there seemed to be a wide range of ages. It was a very vibrant, happening bunch. Same was true with the DC group I was hanging with for a short while.
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stong gzugs
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Re: Why so gray?

Post by stong gzugs »

Malcolm wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 6:16 pm ChNN said to one women, who liked his explanations but was more interested in another teacher because she felt more "vibration," "I am sorry I cannot give you any vibration."
Perfect response! :lol:
Kai lord
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Re: Why so gray?

Post by Kai lord »

climb-up wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 8:06 pm Related to what Malcolm said (well, kind of, I live a very worldly life and don’t get to many isolated retreats in …it is an aspiration for if I live long enough for my kids to get a bit older):
My teacher used to tell me, retreat is all about isolating your body, speech and mind. So if you manage to do that in your daily life and squeeze in enough time starting from like one day per week, then you don't have to wait for years till retirement from work or household duties just to go to a formal retreat center
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climb-up
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Re: Why so gray?

Post by climb-up »

Kai lord wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 10:28 pm
climb-up wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 8:06 pm Related to what Malcolm said (well, kind of, I live a very worldly life and don’t get to many isolated retreats in …it is an aspiration for if I live long enough for my kids to get a bit older):
My teacher used to tell me, retreat is all about isolating your body, speech and mind. So if you manage to do that in your daily life and squeeze in enough time starting from like one day per week, then you don't have to wait for years till retirement from work or household duties just to go to a formal retreat center
Yes, for sure.
I have, in the past, taken days and up-to a week for retreats while still being in the city, it’s been very important. Mostly though I do the equivalent number of hours or repetitions.
At this current moment even taking a day away from my family will not work, but in the nearish future that does seem like a possibility.
"Death's second name is 'omnipresent.' On the relative truth it seems we become separate. But on the absolute there is no separation." Lama Dawa
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climb-up
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Re: Why so gray?

Post by climb-up »

Johnny Dangerous wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 7:21 am It takes a skillful teacher to take the “I just want something to make life more bearable/happier/optimized” thing and turn it towards Dharma, but it can be done.

I first began practicing because I suspected that Western psychotherapy was too limited to help me go any deeper in looking at my issues, I didn’t walk through the door being into religion.
Nice, you experience is a perfect example.
I think there must be a decent number of people who get into (mc)mindfulness and are then curious to go deeper and learn more about the context.

I also figure that the people who get into modern westernized Buddhist practices are still making connections to teachings that might ripen in future lives.

Coming from western psychotherapy, did you start with something like MBSR?
"Death's second name is 'omnipresent.' On the relative truth it seems we become separate. But on the absolute there is no separation." Lama Dawa
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Re: Why so gray?

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

climb-up wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 12:49 am
Johnny Dangerous wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 7:21 am It takes a skillful teacher to take the “I just want something to make life more bearable/happier/optimized” thing and turn it towards Dharma, but it can be done.

I first began practicing because I suspected that Western psychotherapy was too limited to help me go any deeper in looking at my issues, I didn’t walk through the door being into religion.
Nice, you experience is a perfect example.
I think there must be a decent number of people who get into (mc)mindfulness and are then curious to go deeper and learn more about the context.

I also figure that the people who get into modern westernized Buddhist practices are still making connections to teachings that might ripen in future lives.

Coming from western psychotherapy, did you start with something like MBSR?
I’d half-ass studied Buddhism from a youngish age but was -very- averse to anything “religious” or “ supernatural”, despite knowing such things were present in Buddhist teachings. Probably pretty typical for being raised in proximity to preachy Evangelical communities in terms of my schoolmates, etc.

I knew enough to know that the modern therapy that had helped me in 20s owed a lot to Buddhism generally, and I originally just walked through the door with the intention to have more knowledge of my own mind. I just wanted my mind to be a little less crazy, in a broad sense.
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SilenceMonkey
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Re: Why so gray?

Post by SilenceMonkey »

In Chicago, where I’m from, there seem to be a couple centers that are popular with young people. One is the Dhammakaya temple lineage from Thailand. They have a professional website and advertise a full moon meditation on meetup.com. They have nice sayings on their website, such as how meditation helps you sleep better. Only from pictures, I can surmise they attract many young people.

The other one is Shambhala. They have very flash and politically relevant meditations and events. At least in Chicago, they’re pretty progressive and attract an interesting and thoughtful community. I didn’t get the impression the practice would be very deep, though.

I think what hooks this generation is probably different than what hooked people in previous decades. There’s always a few people interested in psychedelics and crazy experiences, but these days it seems that secular dharma is what hooks people. I came to Dharma through martial arts… But I think it’s much more likely people will come to Dharma from a yoga class. That’s where the young people go.

It would be a good idea for some people who want to share the Dharma to become a yoga teacher and share wisdom and practices in that setting.

The only true yogi in Chicago, Drupon Rinchen Dorje of Garchen Rinpoche’s Sangha, has virtually no western students at his center. He doesn’t speak English, isn’t interested in advertising or bringing in students. I think maybe he doesn’t see himself as a guru. There is a reasonable Mongolian following, but hardly any non-Asians.

I was part of a Korean zen temple in Chicago when I was a teenager. It was started by Kusan Sunim, a quite highly realized zen practitioner. There were a number of people there in their 30s and 40s. I think they were probably attracted by the progressive ethics of the place. It was welcoming to LGBTQ folks, and the like. The Buddha hall was pretty impressive and often 40-50 people would come for meditation on Sunday, followed by a dharma talk on a Mahayana topic. They would study Dhammapada and Shantideva, and there were a number of people who were inspired about becoming bodhisattvas in the world.

I think the way to people’s hearts these days is probably through progressive politics. But I’m skeptical if that direction would lead people to achieve realization. I think Buddhism would become merely a mythological metaphor to help people become good political actors, instead of going into deep practice and realizing profound truths.
Last edited by SilenceMonkey on Mon May 29, 2023 4:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
SilenceMonkey
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Re: Why so gray?

Post by SilenceMonkey »

P.S. I was in Boudha recently, and there are quite a few young people there from around the world. And a number of them are serious seekers.
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ject
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Re: Why so gray?

Post by ject »

Malcolm wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 6:16 pm
stong gzugs wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 5:19 pmThis sums up the vibe I have in mind.
They'll be disappointed.

ChNN said to one women, who liked his explanations but was more interested in another teacher because she felt more "vibration," "I am sorry I cannot give you any vibration."
The hair-bun and yoga pants crowd... aghh (<- sound you make when you taste something truly disgusting).
They have ruined everything, including yoga.
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ject
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Re: Why so gray?

Post by ject »

Is it possible that the real cause is the accelerating IQ crash? Reverse Flynn Effect.
In other words, Idiocracy (see the movie) will become a reality in just few generations.
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PemaSherab
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Re: Why so gray?

Post by PemaSherab »

ject wrote: Sat May 27, 2023 5:53 pm I have visited few events, in person and over the web, and they have all been very gray.
It makes one kinda worried - where is the next wave of western Dzogchen practitioners?
Last week I shaved my beard; it was very gray (unlike the hair on top of my head). By my estimation, I have made western dharma 0.00000000002% less gray. You may thank me later.
Q:Is the ability “to see what is in front of us” a way of escaping from the image-prison which surrounds us?
A: Very definitely, yes. But this is an ability which very few people have, and fewer and fewer as time passes.

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ject
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Re: Why so gray?

Post by ject »

PemaSherab wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 7:20 pm
ject wrote: Sat May 27, 2023 5:53 pm I have visited few events, in person and over the web, and they have all been very gray.
It makes one kinda worried - where is the next wave of western Dzogchen practitioners?
Last week I shaved my beard; it was very gray (unlike the hair on top of my head). By my estimation, I have made western dharma 0.00000000002% less gray. You may thank me later.
Emaho! Thank you for shaving the Buddha Dharma in the West... ;)
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Re: Why so gray?

Post by Malcolm »

ject wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 6:42 pm
Malcolm wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 6:16 pm
stong gzugs wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 5:19 pmThis sums up the vibe I have in mind.
They'll be disappointed.

ChNN said to one women, who liked his explanations but was more interested in another teacher because she felt more "vibration," "I am sorry I cannot give you any vibration."
The hair-bun and yoga pants crowd... aghh (<- sound you make when you taste something truly disgusting).
They have ruined everything, including yoga.
This was in the eighties, more like the Crystal woo woo people.
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: Why so gray?

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EMPTIFUL.
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Kim O'Hara
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Re: Why so gray?

Post by Kim O'Hara »

SilenceMonkey wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 4:46 pm ...I think what hooks this generation is probably different than what hooked people in previous decades. There’s always a few people interested in psychedelics and crazy experiences, but these days it seems that secular dharma is what hooks people. I came to Dharma through martial arts… But I think it’s much more likely people will come to Dharma from a yoga class. That’s where the young people go.
...
I think you're right, and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. If they are serious, they will find their way to serious teachings - just as older folk who came to it in their teens or twenties via "Be Here Now" or the giggling guru did. :thinking:

Looking down on them for their ignorance is
...rude and unfair, because it isn't their fault
...unfair, because we were all ignorant once
...unhelpful to them, because it is likely to turn them away from the dharma
...unhelpful to us, because we're losing good opportunities for practice.

:namaste:
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Giovanni
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Re: Why so gray?

Post by Giovanni »

For me it was Kerouac’s The Dharma Bums that was the (not very sound ) introduction. For those of a particular ancient age it was quite common.
merilingpa
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Re: Why so gray?

Post by merilingpa »

I think the mindfulness practices that are taught everywhere in society can get some people interested in the Dharma.
Some people always want to go deeper and looks for the original.
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Kim O'Hara
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Re: Why so gray?

Post by Kim O'Hara »

Giovanni wrote: Tue May 30, 2023 9:31 am For me it was Kerouac’s The Dharma Bums that was the (not very sound ) introduction. For those of a particular ancient age it was quite common.
Ancient??
I remember,
back in the dim distant past,
Lobsang Rampa,
Lost Horizon,
Krishnamurti,
and I still have a copy of Alexandra David-Neel's Magic and Mystery in Tibet.

Oh, and there was
Heinrich Harrer
and his Seven Years in Tibet,
too,

and,
before that,


perhaps


a


previous




life.




:meditate:




"Kim"
Giovanni
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Re: Why so gray?

Post by Giovanni »

I believe a movie was made of Harrer’s book starring Brad Pitt?
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