Probably the "practice guru yoga" part, I would think.heart wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 6:39 pmExactly you said: "Rinpoche's advice to practice guru yoga, be present, and work with circumstances, is really a complete path when taken to heart." So I just really don't know where the actual resting in rigpa is while you "walk around, talking and making coffee"? I don't mean to be difficult but it isn't obvious in your response to merilingpa.
The Role of Shamatha/Vipaysana in Dzogchen
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Re: The Role of Shamatha/Vipaysana in Dzogchen
Re: The Role of Shamatha/Vipaysana in Dzogchen
Practicing Guru Yoga does not mean only in formal sessions.
And I’m sure Heart, that you could agree with this.
And I’m sure Heart, that you could agree with this.
Last edited by Sādhaka on Sun May 28, 2023 6:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: The Role of Shamatha/Vipaysana in Dzogchen
Well, that would be practicing Anuyoga with only a glimpse of rigpa for most people. Difficult to talk with people while doing it.stoneinfocus wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 6:49 pmProbably the "practice guru yoga" part, I would think.heart wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 6:39 pmExactly you said: "Rinpoche's advice to practice guru yoga, be present, and work with circumstances, is really a complete path when taken to heart." So I just really don't know where the actual resting in rigpa is while you "walk around, talking and making coffee"? I don't mean to be difficult but it isn't obvious in your response to merilingpa.
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut
"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
~Kurt Vonnegut
"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
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Re: The Role of Shamatha/Vipaysana in Dzogchen
Resting in rigpa is guru yoga. You asked where it was in Josef's post, and there it is...heart wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 6:52 pmWell, that would be practicing Anuyoga with only a glimpse of rigpa for most people. Difficult to talk with people while doing it.stoneinfocus wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 6:49 pmProbably the "practice guru yoga" part, I would think.heart wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 6:39 pm
Exactly you said: "Rinpoche's advice to practice guru yoga, be present, and work with circumstances, is really a complete path when taken to heart." So I just really don't know where the actual resting in rigpa is while you "walk around, talking and making coffee"? I don't mean to be difficult but it isn't obvious in your response to merilingpa.
Re: The Role of Shamatha/Vipaysana in Dzogchen
Only if you think it is hard, Magnus. Other people may not experience the same difficulty as you seem to express.
Last edited by Malcolm on Sun May 28, 2023 7:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Re: The Role of Shamatha/Vipaysana in Dzogchen
Ati Guru Yoga is practiced by all kinds of people, most who would understand it as a visualisation.stoneinfocus wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 6:55 pmResting in rigpa is guru yoga. You asked where it was in Josef's post, and there it is...heart wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 6:52 pmWell, that would be practicing Anuyoga with only a glimpse of rigpa for most people. Difficult to talk with people while doing it.stoneinfocus wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 6:49 pm
Probably the "practice guru yoga" part, I would think.
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut
"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
~Kurt Vonnegut
"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
Re: The Role of Shamatha/Vipaysana in Dzogchen
The reason it can be difficult to recognize while talking to other people is because the energy of the habit of self/other arises to a greater or lesser degree. But when it does then we just recognize that wave of the mind that splits things into self-other, and then it subsides. Rinse, repeat throughout a conversation. Am I wrong?heart wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 6:52 pmWell, that would be practicing Anuyoga with only a glimpse of rigpa for most people. Difficult to talk with people while doing it.stoneinfocus wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 6:49 pmProbably the "practice guru yoga" part, I would think.heart wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 6:39 pm
Exactly you said: "Rinpoche's advice to practice guru yoga, be present, and work with circumstances, is really a complete path when taken to heart." So I just really don't know where the actual resting in rigpa is while you "walk around, talking and making coffee"? I don't mean to be difficult but it isn't obvious in your response to merilingpa.
Re: The Role of Shamatha/Vipaysana in Dzogchen
You are really going to speak for the people of DC and explain what they think Ati Guru Yoga is?heart wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 6:58 pmAti Guru Yoga is practiced by all kinds of people, most who would understand it as a visualisation.stoneinfocus wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 6:55 pmResting in rigpa is guru yoga. You asked where it was in Josef's post, and there it is...
BTW, Ati Guru Yoga is not an anuyoga system. There is no creation stage, no completion stage, etc. And as Joe said, instant presence itself is guru yoga. When you discover it for a moment, you do not need to flop onto the floor and sound A and change your position, etc. You just notice it while you are brewing coffee, typing a post on Dharmawheel, etc.
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Re: The Role of Shamatha/Vipaysana in Dzogchen
Sorry, Magnus, but I can't help but think you're just being difficult for the sake of it here.heart wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 6:58 pmAti Guru Yoga is practiced by all kinds of people, most who would understand it as a visualisation.stoneinfocus wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 6:55 pmResting in rigpa is guru yoga. You asked where it was in Josef's post, and there it is...
People can do their best to be in rigpa while going about daily activities. It may not be fully qualified or perfect, but a glimpse of rigpa while making coffee is perfectly acceptable guru yoga with no anuyoga required.
Re: The Role of Shamatha/Vipaysana in Dzogchen
So you changed your mind about that? There is a creation stage and a completion stage clearly defined even if very simplified.
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut
"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
~Kurt Vonnegut
"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
Re: The Role of Shamatha/Vipaysana in Dzogchen
I never said this. What I said was that Guru Yoga of the White A is an anuyoga system, since one visualizes Garab Dorje and so on. Just as the Medium Thun guru yoga belongs to Mahāyoga.heart wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 7:02 pmSo you changed your mind about that? There is a creation stage and a completion stage clearly defined even if very simplified.
Ati Guru Yoga is not an anuyoga practice. One is not creating anything or dissolving anything.
Re: The Role of Shamatha/Vipaysana in Dzogchen
So you are not doing Ati Guru Yoga with a white Ah?stoneinfocus wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 7:02 pmSorry, Magnus, but I can't help but think you're just being difficult for the sake of it here.heart wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 6:58 pmAti Guru Yoga is practiced by all kinds of people, most who would understand it as a visualisation.stoneinfocus wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 6:55 pm
Resting in rigpa is guru yoga. You asked where it was in Josef's post, and there it is...
People can do their best to be in rigpa while going about daily activities. It may not be fully qualified or perfect, but a glimpse of rigpa while making coffee is perfectly acceptable guru yoga with no anuyoga required.
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut
"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
~Kurt Vonnegut
"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
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- Posts: 304
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Re: The Role of Shamatha/Vipaysana in Dzogchen
I mean, I do every day, but you don't need to do any sort of formal practice to rest in rigpa for a bit. You can just look and connect. Or sometimes, it just happens and you rest in it as long as you can. That's still guru yoga.heart wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 7:06 pmSo you are not doing Ati Guru Yoga with a white Ah?stoneinfocus wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 7:02 pmSorry, Magnus, but I can't help but think you're just being difficult for the sake of it here.
People can do their best to be in rigpa while going about daily activities. It may not be fully qualified or perfect, but a glimpse of rigpa while making coffee is perfectly acceptable guru yoga with no anuyoga required.
Re: The Role of Shamatha/Vipaysana in Dzogchen
So according to you Ati Guru Yoga is not Guru Yoga with the White A? Where did Rinpoche make that distinction?Malcolm wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 7:05 pmI never said this. What I said was that Guru Yoga of the White A is an anuyoga system, since one visualizes Garab Dorje and so on. Just as the Medium Thun guru yoga belongs to Mahāyoga.
Ati Guru Yoga is not an anuyoga practice. One is not creating anything or dissolving anything.
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut
"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
~Kurt Vonnegut
"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
Re: The Role of Shamatha/Vipaysana in Dzogchen
Why do you call it guru yoga why not just call it trechö? After all that is its proper name and using the name guru yoga is just confusing everyone. Anyway, doing trechö while talking with your friends and drinking coffee is no small thing and if you actually was present you would know that. This is why Rinpoche emphasised presence so much.stoneinfocus wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 7:09 pmI mean, I do every day, but you don't need to do any sort of formal practice to rest in rigpa for a bit. You can just look and connect. Or sometimes, it just happens and you rest in it as long as you can. That's still guru yoga.heart wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 7:06 pmSo you are not doing Ati Guru Yoga with a white Ah?stoneinfocus wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 7:02 pm
Sorry, Magnus, but I can't help but think you're just being difficult for the sake of it here.
People can do their best to be in rigpa while going about daily activities. It may not be fully qualified or perfect, but a glimpse of rigpa while making coffee is perfectly acceptable guru yoga with no anuyoga required.
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut
"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
~Kurt Vonnegut
"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
Re: The Role of Shamatha/Vipaysana in Dzogchen
Of course, the essence of guru yoga is to be in the state of guru yoga/rigpa.heart wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 6:39 pmExactly you said: "Rinpoche's advice to practice guru yoga, be present, and work with circumstances, is really a complete path when taken to heart." So I just really don't know where the actual resting in rigpa is while you "walk around, talking and making coffee"? I don't mean to be difficult but it isn't obvious in your response to merilingpa.
"All phenomena of samsara depend on the mind, so when the essence of mind is purified, samsara is purified. Since the phenomena of nirvana depend on the pristine consciousness of vidyā, because one remains in the immediacy of vidyā, buddhahood arises on its own. All critical points are summarized with those two." - Longchenpa
Re: The Role of Shamatha/Vipaysana in Dzogchen
Ati Guru Yoga does not involve any transformation. That is the difference between Ati Guru Yoga and Guru Yoga of the White A. He made this disctinction many times. In the Guru Yoga of the White A, you always are creating the guru in front. In AGY, you never create or transform anything. The symbol is just a symbol of the potentiality of the basis that exists in the heart center of every sentient beings, with its qualities of sounds, lights, and rays. This does not need to be created, and is perfectly complete already in your body. We sound A and recall that potential. Its not the same as a creation stage, even an anuyoga one.heart wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 7:10 pmSo according to you Ati Guru Yoga is not Guru Yoga with the White A? Where did Rinpoche make that distinction?Malcolm wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 7:05 pmI never said this. What I said was that Guru Yoga of the White A is an anuyoga system, since one visualizes Garab Dorje and so on. Just as the Medium Thun guru yoga belongs to Mahāyoga.
Ati Guru Yoga is not an anuyoga practice. One is not creating anything or dissolving anything.
Re: The Role of Shamatha/Vipaysana in Dzogchen
It has a name, it called Trechö.stoneinfocus wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 7:09 pmI mean, I do every day, but you don't need to do any sort of formal practice to rest in rigpa for a bit. You can just look and connect. Or sometimes, it just happens and you rest in it as long as you can. That's still guru yoga.heart wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 7:06 pmSo you are not doing Ati Guru Yoga with a white Ah?stoneinfocus wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 7:02 pm
Sorry, Magnus, but I can't help but think you're just being difficult for the sake of it here.
People can do their best to be in rigpa while going about daily activities. It may not be fully qualified or perfect, but a glimpse of rigpa while making coffee is perfectly acceptable guru yoga with no anuyoga required.
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut
"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
~Kurt Vonnegut
"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
Re: The Role of Shamatha/Vipaysana in Dzogchen
I never created the Guru in front when doing Guru Yoga with a white Ah.Malcolm wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 7:22 pmAti Guru Yoga does not involve any transformation. That is the difference between Ati Guru Yoga and Guru Yoga of the White A. He made this disctinction many times. In the Guru Yoga of the White A, you always are creating the guru in front. In AGY, you never create or transform anything. The symbol is just a symbol of the potentiality of the basis that exists in the heart center of every sentient beings, with its qualities of sounds, lights, and rays. This does not need to be created, and is perfectly complete already in your body. We sound A and recall that potential. Its not the same as a creation stage, even an anuyoga one.heart wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 7:10 pmSo according to you Ati Guru Yoga is not Guru Yoga with the White A? Where did Rinpoche make that distinction?Malcolm wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 7:05 pm
I never said this. What I said was that Guru Yoga of the White A is an anuyoga system, since one visualizes Garab Dorje and so on. Just as the Medium Thun guru yoga belongs to Mahāyoga.
Ati Guru Yoga is not an anuyoga practice. One is not creating anything or dissolving anything.
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut
"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
~Kurt Vonnegut
"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
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Re: The Role of Shamatha/Vipaysana in Dzogchen
...Also referred to as "the state of guruyoga".heart wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 7:22 pmIt has a name, it called Trechö.stoneinfocus wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 7:09 pmI mean, I do every day, but you don't need to do any sort of formal practice to rest in rigpa for a bit. You can just look and connect. Or sometimes, it just happens and you rest in it as long as you can. That's still guru yoga.
I refer you to your own post: https://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?t=4416