The Role of Shamatha/Vipaysana in Dzogchen

[stoneinfocus]

You say "the simple practice of "being present"" and that is understood by the majority of people as mindfulness. Even ChNNR considered it mindfulness, a mindfulness that is important to be able to rest in rigpa, but it isn't rigpa.

Had I said "all you have to do is be present" then that could be a problem.

Exactly you said: "Rinpoche's advice to practice guru yoga, be present, and work with circumstances, is really a complete path when taken to heart." So I just really don't know where the actual resting in rigpa is while you "walk around, talking and making coffee"? I don't mean to be difficult but it isn't obvious in your response to merilingpa.

Probably the "practice guru yoga" part, I would think.

[Sādhaka]

Practicing Guru Yoga does not mean only in formal sessions.

And I’m sure Heart, that you could agree with this.

[heart]

Had I said "all you have to do is be present" then that could be a problem.

Exactly you said: "Rinpoche's advice to practice guru yoga, be present, and work with circumstances, is really a complete path when taken to heart." So I just really don't know where the actual resting in rigpa is while you "walk around, talking and making coffee"? I don't mean to be difficult but it isn't obvious in your response to merilingpa.

Probably the "practice guru yoga" part, I would think.

Well, that would be practicing Anuyoga with only a glimpse of rigpa for most people. Difficult to talk with people while doing it.

[stoneinfocus]

Exactly you said: "Rinpoche's advice to practice guru yoga, be present, and work with circumstances, is really a complete path when taken to heart." So I just really don't know where the actual resting in rigpa is while you "walk around, talking and making coffee"? I don't mean to be difficult but it isn't obvious in your response to merilingpa.

Probably the "practice guru yoga" part, I would think.

Well, that would be practicing Anuyoga with only a glimpse of rigpa for most people. Difficult to talk with people while doing it.

Resting in rigpa is guru yoga. You asked where it was in Josef's post, and there it is...

[Malcolm]

Well, that would be practicing Anuyoga with only a glimpse of rigpa for most people. Difficult to talk with people while doing it.

Only if you think it is hard, Magnus. Other people may not experience the same difficulty as you seem to express.

[heart]

Probably the "practice guru yoga" part, I would think.

Well, that would be practicing Anuyoga with only a glimpse of rigpa for most people. Difficult to talk with people while doing it.

Resting in rigpa is guru yoga. You asked where it was in Josef's post, and there it is...

Ati Guru Yoga is practiced by all kinds of people, most who would understand it as a visualisation.

[Zoey85]

Exactly you said: "Rinpoche's advice to practice guru yoga, be present, and work with circumstances, is really a complete path when taken to heart." So I just really don't know where the actual resting in rigpa is while you "walk around, talking and making coffee"? I don't mean to be difficult but it isn't obvious in your response to merilingpa.

Probably the "practice guru yoga" part, I would think.

Well, that would be practicing Anuyoga with only a glimpse of rigpa for most people. Difficult to talk with people while doing it.

The reason it can be difficult to recognize while talking to other people is because the energy of the habit of self/other arises to a greater or lesser degree. But when it does then we just recognize that wave of the mind that splits things into self-other, and then it subsides. Rinse, repeat throughout a conversation. Am I wrong?

[Malcolm]

Well, that would be practicing Anuyoga with only a glimpse of rigpa for most people. Difficult to talk with people while doing it.

Resting in rigpa is guru yoga. You asked where it was in Josef's post, and there it is...

Ati Guru Yoga is practiced by all kinds of people, most who would understand it as a visualisation.

You are really going to speak for the people of DC and explain what they think Ati Guru Yoga is?

BTW, Ati Guru Yoga is not an anuyoga system. There is no creation stage, no completion stage, etc. And as Joe said, instant presence itself is guru yoga. When you discover it for a moment, you do not need to flop onto the floor and sound A and change your position, etc. You just notice it while you are brewing coffee, typing a post on Dharmawheel, etc.

[stoneinfocus]

Well, that would be practicing Anuyoga with only a glimpse of rigpa for most people. Difficult to talk with people while doing it.

Resting in rigpa is guru yoga. You asked where it was in Josef's post, and there it is...

Ati Guru Yoga is practiced by all kinds of people, most who would understand it as a visualisation.

Sorry, Magnus, but I can't help but think you're just being difficult for the sake of it here.

People can do their best to be in rigpa while going about daily activities. It may not be fully qualified or perfect, but a glimpse of rigpa while making coffee is perfectly acceptable guru yoga with no anuyoga required.

[heart]

Well, that would be practicing Anuyoga with only a glimpse of rigpa for most people. Difficult to talk with people while doing it.

Only if you think it is hard, Magnus. Other people may not experience the same difficulty as you seem to express. BTW, Ati Guru Yoga is not an anuyoga system. There is no creation stage, not completion stage, etc.

So you changed your mind about that? There is a creation stage and a completion stage clearly defined even if very simplified.

[Malcolm]

Well, that would be practicing Anuyoga with only a glimpse of rigpa for most people. Difficult to talk with people while doing it.

Only if you think it is hard, Magnus. Other people may not experience the same difficulty as you seem to express. BTW, Ati Guru Yoga is not an anuyoga system. There is no creation stage, not completion stage, etc.

So you changed your mind about that? There is a creation stage and a completion stage clearly defined even if very simplified.

I never said this. What I said was that Guru Yoga of the White A is an anuyoga system, since one visualizes Garab Dorje and so on. Just as the Medium Thun guru yoga belongs to Mahāyoga.

Ati Guru Yoga is not an anuyoga practice. One is not creating anything or dissolving anything.

[heart]

Resting in rigpa is guru yoga. You asked where it was in Josef's post, and there it is...

Ati Guru Yoga is practiced by all kinds of people, most who would understand it as a visualisation.

Sorry, Magnus, but I can't help but think you're just being difficult for the sake of it here.

People can do their best to be in rigpa while going about daily activities. It may not be fully qualified or perfect, but a glimpse of rigpa while making coffee is perfectly acceptable guru yoga with no anuyoga required.

So you are not doing Ati Guru Yoga with a white Ah?

[stoneinfocus]

Ati Guru Yoga is practiced by all kinds of people, most who would understand it as a visualisation.

Sorry, Magnus, but I can't help but think you're just being difficult for the sake of it here.

People can do their best to be in rigpa while going about daily activities. It may not be fully qualified or perfect, but a glimpse of rigpa while making coffee is perfectly acceptable guru yoga with no anuyoga required.

So you are not doing Ati Guru Yoga with a white Ah?

I mean, I do every day, but you don't need to do any sort of formal practice to rest in rigpa for a bit. You can just look and connect. Or sometimes, it just happens and you rest in it as long as you can. That's still guru yoga.

[heart]

Only if you think it is hard, Magnus. Other people may not experience the same difficulty as you seem to express. BTW, Ati Guru Yoga is not an anuyoga system. There is no creation stage, not completion stage, etc.

So you changed your mind about that? There is a creation stage and a completion stage clearly defined even if very simplified.

I never said this. What I said was that Guru Yoga of the White A is an anuyoga system, since one visualizes Garab Dorje and so on. Just as the Medium Thun guru yoga belongs to Mahāyoga.

Ati Guru Yoga is not an anuyoga practice. One is not creating anything or dissolving anything.

So according to you Ati Guru Yoga is not Guru Yoga with the White A? Where did Rinpoche make that distinction?

[heart]

Sorry, Magnus, but I can't help but think you're just being difficult for the sake of it here.

People can do their best to be in rigpa while going about daily activities. It may not be fully qualified or perfect, but a glimpse of rigpa while making coffee is perfectly acceptable guru yoga with no anuyoga required.

So you are not doing Ati Guru Yoga with a white Ah?

I mean, I do every day, but you don't need to do any sort of formal practice to rest in rigpa for a bit. You can just look and connect. Or sometimes, it just happens and you rest in it as long as you can. That's still guru yoga.

Why do you call it guru yoga why not just call it trechö? After all that is its proper name and using the name guru yoga is just confusing everyone. Anyway, doing trechö while talking with your friends and drinking coffee is no small thing and if you actually was present you would know that. This is why Rinpoche emphasised presence so much.

[Josef]

You say "the simple practice of "being present"" and that is understood by the majority of people as mindfulness. Even ChNNR considered it mindfulness, a mindfulness that is important to be able to rest in rigpa, but it isn't rigpa.

Had I said "all you have to do is be present" then that could be a problem.

Exactly you said: "Rinpoche's advice to practice guru yoga, be present, and work with circumstances, is really a complete path when taken to heart." So I just really don't know where the actual resting in rigpa is while you "walk around, talking and making coffee"? I don't mean to be difficult but it isn't obvious in your response to merilingpa.

Of course, the essence of guru yoga is to be in the state of guru yoga/rigpa.

[Malcolm]

So you changed your mind about that? There is a creation stage and a completion stage clearly defined even if very simplified.

I never said this. What I said was that Guru Yoga of the White A is an anuyoga system, since one visualizes Garab Dorje and so on. Just as the Medium Thun guru yoga belongs to Mahāyoga.

Ati Guru Yoga is not an anuyoga practice. One is not creating anything or dissolving anything.

So according to you Ati Guru Yoga is not Guru Yoga with the White A? Where did Rinpoche make that distinction?

Ati Guru Yoga does not involve any transformation. That is the difference between Ati Guru Yoga and Guru Yoga of the White A. He made this disctinction many times. In the Guru Yoga of the White A, you always are creating the guru in front. In AGY, you never create or transform anything. The symbol is just a symbol of the potentiality of the basis that exists in the heart center of every sentient beings, with its qualities of sounds, lights, and rays. This does not need to be created, and is perfectly complete already in your body. We sound A and recall that potential. Its not the same as a creation stage, even an anuyoga one.

[heart]

Sorry, Magnus, but I can't help but think you're just being difficult for the sake of it here.

People can do their best to be in rigpa while going about daily activities. It may not be fully qualified or perfect, but a glimpse of rigpa while making coffee is perfectly acceptable guru yoga with no anuyoga required.

So you are not doing Ati Guru Yoga with a white Ah?

I mean, I do every day, but you don't need to do any sort of formal practice to rest in rigpa for a bit. You can just look and connect. Or sometimes, it just happens and you rest in it as long as you can. That's still guru yoga.

It has a name, it called Trechö.

[heart]

I never said this. What I said was that Guru Yoga of the White A is an anuyoga system, since one visualizes Garab Dorje and so on. Just as the Medium Thun guru yoga belongs to Mahāyoga.

Ati Guru Yoga is not an anuyoga practice. One is not creating anything or dissolving anything.

So according to you Ati Guru Yoga is not Guru Yoga with the White A? Where did Rinpoche make that distinction?

Ati Guru Yoga does not involve any transformation. That is the difference between Ati Guru Yoga and Guru Yoga of the White A. He made this disctinction many times. In the Guru Yoga of the White A, you always are creating the guru in front. In AGY, you never create or transform anything. The symbol is just a symbol of the potentiality of the basis that exists in the heart center of every sentient beings, with its qualities of sounds, lights, and rays. This does not need to be created, and is perfectly complete already in your body. We sound A and recall that potential. Its not the same as a creation stage, even an anuyoga one.

I never created the Guru in front when doing Guru Yoga with a white Ah.

[stoneinfocus]

So you are not doing Ati Guru Yoga with a white Ah?

I mean, I do every day, but you don't need to do any sort of formal practice to rest in rigpa for a bit. You can just look and connect. Or sometimes, it just happens and you rest in it as long as you can. That's still guru yoga.

It has a name, it called Trechö.

...Also referred to as "the state of guruyoga".

I refer you to your own post: https://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?t=4416