No guru, no dzogchen?

[ject]

Now it seems, there is no way around it because it's a part and parcel of getting dzogchen-teaching.

How would you expect to receive Dzogchen teachings without a teacher?

My bet was on books and meditation but that blew up.

and once you find a Guru never visit Dharmawheel Dzogchen subforum again to avoid confusion and wasting time

I do think that there is a partial truth to this.

Yes.

This forum sure ruined my illusion of getting by with printed words. LOL. I rather liked it. Now it's gone and I have to go lama chasing. That is a depressing thought.

[Archie2009]

and once you find a Guru never visit Dharmawheel Dzogchen subforum again to avoid confusion and wasting time

I do think that there is a partial truth to this.

Read only Malcolm's posts and you'll benefit greatly imo.

[Archie2009]

Is it problematic for you finding a teacher?

Not really, if I am willing to travel and manage to get past of all the self appointed gate keepers.

You can read some introductory books to spike your interest, but eventually you will have to meet a teacher to receive direct introduction and guidance. Otherwise you won't know what to do and you'll make no progress.

I have read few but at some point it all started to feel a bit repetitive.
I just got a copy of the "Our Pristine Mind" so I'll start reading it today.

There are some teachers giving instructions and seminars online.

That would be awesome. Don't be shy, name a few. You are welcome to send me a DM, if you do not want advertise them here. US west coast is out of the question because of the time difference.

Our Pristine Mind is a great book. It'll give you a real feel and you'll get to practice useful meditation on the basis of it. But it can't serve as a basis for Dzogchen itself. You'll need to connect with a teacher for that. Like the book's author for example.

[Malcolm]

Now it's gone and I have to go lama chasing. That is a depressing thought.

Think of it as more like meeting an old friend from a past life.

[Kai lord]

and once you find a Guru never visit Dharmawheel Dzogchen subforum again to avoid confusion and wasting time

Wait till you read the dzogchen reddit....

[FieldBob]

If you can find a guru thats great, but...
Self Liberation You liberate your self thats ur real nature. Rigpa. Gnosis. You need initiation to the recognition of the nature of mind.

Who is guru when the knowledge is intrinsic in you?
What is a guru if you are self liberating?
What will Guru give you if you have everything you need?

a scuba diver master can teach you how to scuba dive, thats it! the rest is your diving experience.

[jet.urgyen]

and once you find a Guru never visit Dharmawheel Dzogchen subforum again to avoid confusion and wasting time

I do think that there is a partial truth to this.

Not possible if one had relevant experience. Another reason to not to read dzogchen teachings and talks without knowing dzogchen in first place.

[FieldBob]

and once you find a Guru never visit Dharmawheel Dzogchen subforum again to avoid confusion and wasting time

I would stick to this.

[justsit]

and once you find a Guru never visit Dharmawheel Dzogchen subforum again to avoid confusion and wasting time

I would stick to this.

And yet here you are.
Unless you don't have a guru....

[Dawa Ösel]

and once you find a Guru never visit Dharmawheel Dzogchen subforum again to avoid confusion and wasting time

Maybe the most valuable post in the entire forum

[ject]

Our Pristine Mind is a great book. It'll give you a real feel and you'll get to practice useful meditation on the basis of it. But it can't serve as a basis for Dzogchen itself. You'll need to connect with a teacher for that. Like the book's author for example.
[/quote]
Thought about it for a moment. He is in Pacific time zone, meaning I cant participate in any of his live events.

[Malcolm]

and once you find a Guru never visit Dharmawheel Dzogchen subforum again to avoid confusion and wasting time

Maybe the most valuable post in the entire forum

As someone observed above, yet here you are.

[Johnny Dangerous]

and once you find a Guru never visit Dharmawheel Dzogchen subforum again to avoid confusion and wasting time

Maybe the most valuable post in the entire forum

It’s good advice if you don’t yet have confidence in your own teachers and recognition, but overly cautious if you do.

[PadmaVonSamba]

I have been reading books about dzogchen and if I understand it correctly - if one has no wish to find a guru, there is no point in studding the subject, unless it's for research or something academical like that.

Since you have read books on Dzogchen and have taken an interest in Dzogchen, then one can’t say that without a teacher it’s worthless to read books about Dzogchen. I doubt there are too many people who practice Dzogchen who didn’t take an interest in Dzogchen after first reading about Dzogchen.

[justsit]

...
Thought about it for a moment. He is in Pacific time zone, meaning I cant participate in any of his live events.

How badly do you want the teachings?

Since most of us here do not have the merit to have access to a Dzogchen master when it's convenient. we must make some sacrifices. I'm guessing many here know people who have quit their jobs and moved across country, or made a 10 hour drive after working all day, or spent a fortune to stay for three days in NYC, or flown halfway around the world to get to a teaching or receive a blessing.

Obstacles - sometimes big ones - will arise, it's part of our karma. If you really, really want a guru, you may have to climb some metaphorical mountains to find them.

[Sharp]

...
Thought about it for a moment. He is in Pacific time zone, meaning I cant participate in any of his live events.

How badly do you want the teachings?

Since most of us here do not have the merit to have access to a Dzogchen master when it's convenient. we must make some sacrifices. I'm guessing many here know people who have quit their jobs and moved across country, or made a 10 hour drive after working all day, or spent a fortune to stay for three days in NYC, or flown halfway around the world to get to a teaching or receive a blessing.

Obstacles - sometimes big ones - will arise, it's part of our karma. If you really, really want a guru, you may have to climb some metaphorical mountains to find them.

[Dawa Ösel]

and once you find a Guru never visit Dharmawheel Dzogchen subforum again to avoid confusion and wasting time

Maybe the most valuable post in the entire forum

As someone observed above, yet here you are.

Yes, i got some spare time and my confidence in my root Guru is pretty big, so no worries

[Terma]

and once you find a Guru never visit Dharmawheel Dzogchen subforum again to avoid confusion and wasting time

I do think that there is a partial truth to this.

Not possible if one had relevant experience. Another reason to not to read dzogchen teachings and talks without knowing dzogchen in first place.

My response was for the most part light hearted humour.

I think the most important thing is for one's experience to lead their practice. And this is where a teacher is indispensable along the way, in order to guide, re-direct, etc.

[tingdzin]

As PadmaVonSamba said, your interest in reading and studying Dzogchen is a sign of some sort of karmic affiliation. Better to keep reading and trying to understand than giving up on it altogether because you can't immediately find a teacher. Anyway, real Dzogchen masters are not common, even though a lot of people have or claim to have the qualifications these days. Best not spend all your money chasing a certain one until you are sure he or she is not only qualified, but has the ability to teach.

Really, though, true practice of Dzogchen can't be just a spare time occupation. To really plumb its depths, it has to be primary in your life, and not just externally.

[muni]

There are often masters pointing out or should I say "inviting in nature ", while here talks run.

It is perhaps useful to have the merits to recognize they talk as being nature?