Can Devas attain enlightenment?

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Vajrasambhava
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Can Devas attain enlightenment?

Post by Vajrasambhava »

In such teachings as ngöndro and so on, is taught that having a precious human rebirth is a prerequisite to attain enlightenment, specifying that beings in other realms cannot attain enlightenment while they're experiencing a non human life.
In other teachings, is thaught that Buddha Shakyamuni teaches Buddhadharma in other realms, i. e. In God's realm, before ascending in this earth (as we know celebrating Lhabab Düchen), Other Buddhas give teachings in pure lands etc.


A precious human rebirth, is really the only embodiment to attain enlightenment or it is also possible in other forms?
Kai lord
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Re: Can Devas attain enlightenment?

Post by Kai lord »

Depends on how you define "deva" & " Enlightenment ".

Basically devas from five pure abodes in the form realm, do go on to attain arahantship and liberation from samsara.

Bodhisattvas first attain Buddhahood in Akanishtha, the highest realm in the form realm, above the samsaric Akanishtha.

The higher Akanishtha is a pure land but the tenth bhumi bodhisattvas there definitely don't have a human body.

There are prophecies about how devas like Sakra and Mahadeva achieve Enlightenment eventually but not during their current lifetime.

Sakra and other devas like Buddha's mother, even became stream enterers upon hearing amd understand one of the many Buddha's discourses given in the deva realm
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Re: Can Devas attain enlightenment?

Post by Vajrasambhava »

Kai lord wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2023 1:20 pm Depends on how you define "deva" & " Enlightenment ".

Basically devas from five pure abodes in the form realm, do go on to attain arahantship and liberation from samsara.

Bodhisattvas first attain Buddhahood in Akanishtha, the highest realm in the form realm, above the samsaric Akanishtha.

The higher Akanishtha is a pure land but the tenth bhumi bodhisattvas there definitely don't have a human body.

There are prophecies about how devas like Sakra and Mahadeva achieve Enlightenment eventually but not during their current lifetime.

Sakra and other devas like Buddha's mother, even became stream enterers upon hearing amd understand one of the many Buddha's discourses given in the deva realm
And what about a Vajrayana point of view on this?
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Re: Can Devas attain enlightenment?

Post by Kai lord »

Vajrasambhava wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2023 2:41 pm
Kai lord wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2023 1:20 pm Depends on how you define "deva" & " Enlightenment ".

Basically devas from five pure abodes in the form realm, do go on to attain arahantship and liberation from samsara.

Bodhisattvas first attain Buddhahood in Akanishtha, the highest realm in the form realm, above the samsaric Akanishtha.

The higher Akanishtha is a pure land but the tenth bhumi bodhisattvas there definitely don't have a human body.

There are prophecies about how devas like Sakra and Mahadeva achieve Enlightenment eventually but not during their current lifetime.

Sakra and other devas like Buddha's mother, even became stream enterers upon hearing amd understand one of the many Buddha's discourses given in the deva realm
And what about a Vajrayana point of view on this?
Similar take on Akanishtha and Mahadeva.

The special part about Vajrayana is in regard to Tusita, the deva realm where all Bodhisattva before their final human birth, will be reborn. Its the dream place of rebirth destination for many Gelugpas that I know because both Tsongkhapa and Atisha are said to be dwelling over there. It would be strange for Gelug to choose Tusita as a rebirth destination if Enlightenment is impossible. In addition for many Gelugpas, Tusita is no difference from a pure land.

Teaching on Mahayoga and Anuyoga tantras are given to devas as well, no ideas on how well the devas are practicing them though.

Finally you have mystical realm like Shambala, etc, which appears to be non human but they are not really devas either.
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Re: Can Devas attain enlightenment?

Post by Giovanni »

Vajrasambhava wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2023 2:41 pm
Kai lord wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2023 1:20 pm Depends on how you define "deva" & " Enlightenment ".

Basically devas from five pure abodes in the form realm, do go on to attain arahantship and liberation from samsara.

Bodhisattvas first attain Buddhahood in Akanishtha, the highest realm in the form realm, above the samsaric Akanishtha.

The higher Akanishtha is a pure land but the tenth bhumi bodhisattvas there definitely don't have a human body.

There are prophecies about how devas like Sakra and Mahadeva achieve Enlightenment eventually but not during their current lifetime.

Sakra and other devas like Buddha's mother, even became stream enterers upon hearing amd understand one of the many Buddha's discourses given in the deva realm
And what about a Vajrayana point of view on this?
I was taught that Devas can become Arhats, but not full Bodhisattvas until they experience human birth.
I was also taught not to be too over literal in discussing the mythos of Buddhadharma.
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Re: Can Devas attain enlightenment?

Post by Aemilius »

The Perfection of Wisdom in 700 Lines (transl. of Edward Conze) says :

"Thereupon on that occasion, through the Buddha's might, the earth shook in six ways. And the thought of 16 000 monks were freed from the outflows without any further clinging, and 700 nuns, 300 laymen, 40 000 laywomen and 6000 niyutas of kotis of gods of the sphere of sense-desire produced the dispassionate, unstained eye of Dharma in dharmas."

The Holy Teaching of Vimalakirti, Chapter 1. Purification of the Buddha field (tr. Robert Thurman):

"Then both men and gods who subscribed to the disciple-vehicle thought, "Alas! All constructed things are impermanent." Thereby, thirty-two thousand living beings purified their immaculate, undistorted Dharma-eye in regard to all things. The eight thousand bhikshus were liberated from their mental defilements, attaining the state of non-grasping. And eighty-four thousand living beings who were devoted to the grandeur of the buddha-field, having understood that all things are by nature but magical creations, all conceived in their own minds the spirit of unexcelled, totally perfect enlightenment."

Chapter 5. The Consolation of the Invalid:

"When Vimalakirti had spoken this discourse, eight thousand of the gods in the company of the Crown prince Mañjushri conceived the spirit of unexcelled, perfect enlightenment."

Samdhi-Nirmocana sutra (tr. John Powers) 8. Chapter of Maitreya:

"When this teaching of the definitive meaning of yoga was explained, six hundred thousand living beings generated the aspiration toward completely perfect and unsurpassed enlightenment. Three hundred thousand Sravakas purified the Dharma eye that is free from dust and stainless with respect to the Dharma. One hundred and fifty thousand Sravakas liberated their minds from contamination such that they would not take rebirth. Seventy-five thousand Bodhisattvas attained the mental contemplation of the great yoga."
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Re: Can Devas attain enlightenment?

Post by Aemilius »

THE LARGER SUKHAVATIVYUHA SUTRA
(The Sutra on theBuddha of Eternal Life)
Translated from the Sanskrit by F. Max Mueller, edited by Richard St. Clair

"45. And while this treatise of the Dharma was being delivered, twelve kotis of nayutas of beings obtained the pure and spotless eye of the Dharma with regard to Dharmas. Twenty-four hundred thousand nayutas of kotis of beings obtained the Anagamin reward. Eight hundred Bhikshus had their thoughts delivered from faults so as to cling no more to anything. Twenty-five kotis of Bodhisattvas obtained resignation to things to come. And by forty hundred thousand nayutas of kotis of the human and divine race (i.e. devas), thoughts such as had never risen before were turned toward the highest perfect knowledge, and their stocks of merit were made to grow toward their being born in the world Sukhavati, from a desire to see the Tathagata, the blessed Amitabha. And all of them having been born there, will in proper order be born in other worlds, as Tathagatas, called Manjusvara (sweet-voiced). And eighty kotis of nayutas having acquired resignation under the Tathagata Dipankara, never turning back again from the highest perfect knowledge, rendered perfect by the Tathagata Amitayus, practising the duties of former Bodhisattvas, will carry out, after they are born in the world Sukhavati, the duties enjoined in the former prayers.

46. At that time this universe, the three millions of worlds, trembled in six ways. And various miracles were seen. On earth everything was perfect, and human and divine instruments were played, and the shout of joy was heard as far as the world of the Akanishthas.

#47. Thus spoke the Bhagavat enraptured, and the noble-minded Bodhisattva Ajita, and the blessed Ananda, the whole Assembly, and the world, with gods, men, spirits, mighty birds, and fairies, applauded the speech of the Bhagavat. The praise of the beauty of the excellences of Sukhavati, the country of the blessed Amitabha, the Tathagata, the entry of the Bodhisattva on the stage of never returning, the story of Amitabha, the Mahayanasutra of the Description of Sukhavati is finished."
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
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Malcolm
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Re: Can Devas attain enlightenment?

Post by Malcolm »

These citations merely mean that these devas generated bodhicitta.

Aemilius wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2023 3:48 pm The Perfection of Wisdom in 700 Lines (transl. of Edward Conze) says :

"Thereupon on that occasion, through the Buddha's might, the earth shook in six ways. And the thought of 16 000 monks were freed from the outflows without any further clinging, and 700 nuns, 300 laymen, 40 000 laywomen and 6000 niyutas of kotis of gods of the sphere of sense-desire produced the dispassionate, unstained eye of Dharma in dharmas."

The Holy Teaching of Vimalakirti, Chapter 1. Purification of the Buddha field (tr. Robert Thurman):

"Then both men and gods who subscribed to the disciple-vehicle thought, "Alas! All constructed things are impermanent." Thereby, thirty-two thousand living beings purified their immaculate, undistorted Dharma-eye in regard to all things. The eight thousand bhikshus were liberated from their mental defilements, attaining the state of non-grasping. And eighty-four thousand living beings who were devoted to the grandeur of the buddha-field, having understood that all things are by nature but magical creations, all conceived in their own minds the spirit of unexcelled, totally perfect enlightenment."

Chapter 5. The Consolation of the Invalid:

"When Vimalakirti had spoken this discourse, eight thousand of the gods in the company of the Crown prince Mañjushri conceived the spirit of unexcelled, perfect enlightenment."

Samdhi-Nirmocana sutra (tr. John Powers) 8. Chapter of Maitreya:

"When this teaching of the definitive meaning of yoga was explained, six hundred thousand living beings generated the aspiration toward completely perfect and unsurpassed enlightenment. Three hundred thousand Sravakas purified the Dharma eye that is free from dust and stainless with respect to the Dharma. One hundred and fifty thousand Sravakas liberated their minds from contamination such that they would not take rebirth. Seventy-five thousand Bodhisattvas attained the mental contemplation of the great yoga."
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Re: Can Devas attain enlightenment?

Post by Vajrasambhava »

Kai lord wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2023 3:28 pm
Vajrasambhava wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2023 2:41 pm
Kai lord wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2023 1:20 pm Depends on how you define "deva" & " Enlightenment ".

Basically devas from five pure abodes in the form realm, do go on to attain arahantship and liberation from samsara.

Bodhisattvas first attain Buddhahood in Akanishtha, the highest realm in the form realm, above the samsaric Akanishtha.

The higher Akanishtha is a pure land but the tenth bhumi bodhisattvas there definitely don't have a human body.

There are prophecies about how devas like Sakra and Mahadeva achieve Enlightenment eventually but not during their current lifetime.

Sakra and other devas like Buddha's mother, even became stream enterers upon hearing amd understand one of the many Buddha's discourses given in the deva realm
And what about a Vajrayana point of view on this?
Similar take on Akanishtha and Mahadeva.

The special part about Vajrayana is in regard to Tusita, the deva realm where all Bodhisattva before their final human birth, will be reborn. Its the dream place of rebirth destination for many Gelugpas that I know because both Tsongkhapa and Atisha are said to be dwelling over there. It would be strange for Gelug to choose Tusita as a rebirth destination if Enlightenment is impossible. In addition for many Gelugpas, Tusita is no difference from a pure land.

Teaching on Mahayoga and Anuyoga tantras are given to devas as well, no ideas on how well the devas are practicing them though.

Finally you have mystical realm like Shambala, etc, which appears to be non human but they are not really devas either.
Thanks for the infos :thanks:
Is there a proper reason why only humans can attain full Buddhahood?
I mean, is there any teaching which explain why Devas and Asuras cannot attain Buddhahood?

Anyway, I thought that every being who practice tantra could attain Buddhahood in a single lifetime, regardless in which form one appear.
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Re: Can Devas attain enlightenment?

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Vajrasambhava wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2023 11:06 pm
Is there a proper reason why only humans can attain full Buddhahood?
I mean, is there any teaching which explain why Devas and Asuras cannot attain Buddhahood?

Anyway, I thought that every being who practice tantra could attain Buddhahood in a single lifetime, regardless in which form one appear.
Everyone who practices Vajrayana can attain full buddhahood in one lifetime.
but it doesn’t mean they will.
You will attain Buddhahood in a single lifetime.
But which one? That’s the question.

Devas are too distracted. Turning the mind towards practice requires having experienced dissatisfaction (dukkha) which devas don’t experience. That’s why it’s the devs realm.
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Re: Can Devas attain enlightenment?

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Vajrasambhava wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2023 11:06 pm Is there a proper reason why only humans can attain full Buddhahood?
I mean, is there any teaching which explain why Devas and Asuras cannot attain Buddhahood?
This impression is stemming from the fact that in the "final birth" before manifesting the appearance of full Buddhahood, buddhas are born in the human realm. But outside of the Vajrayāna idea of "Buddhahood in this body," you do not just attain Buddhahood as you are. You first attain the tenth stage, become a master of Akaniṣṭha (according to the Ratnāvalī), and in a transcendental samādhi state, you are annointed/coronated by all buddhas in the ten directions. You can then manifest in all ten directions. Manifesting and creating buddha-fields, or generating a transformation body, one first genreates the appearance of birth in a heaven like Tuṣita, and then descend to a world and go through the twelve deeds of a buddha—this is a manifestation done in the human form. It doesn't mean that humanity is inherently a part of buddhahood. So, technically full buddhahood does occur as a deva or divine being, but a transformation buddha is usually a human.

This being said, it is stated clearly in many Mahāyāna Sūtra (e.g. Tathāgataguhya and others), that the Buddha definitely can appear as a deva and any other type of being. It all depends on what is most suited to the temperaments of sentient beings.

So, these two questions are just based on incorrect premises: humans, devas, and asuras are all equally able to attain buddhahood, but none of them do so in the body in which they are currently. They all first manifest divine and subtle bodies in a different realm to do so.
Anyway, I thought that every being who practice tantra could attain Buddhahood in a single lifetime, regardless in which form one appear.
This is for the same reason: buddhahood is not actually dependent on the realm of the being, it is universal—it happens on a different exisential plain, so to say (transcendant, but immanent). So, what situation you are currently in is essentially irrelevant from the Vajrayāna or third-turning POV.
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Re: Can Devas attain enlightenment?

Post by Kai lord »

Vajrasambhava wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2023 11:06 pm I mean, is there any teaching which explain why Devas and Asuras cannot attain Buddhahood?
Asuras mediate on war and rivalry regularly, they rarely contemplate about anything else. A good real life example will be the current Russian generals who ponders about battle tactics on their front daily and competitive MNC CEOs who constantly seek to outdo their competitors. Do you think they will care about Four Noble Truths, etc?

Ignoring Devas of the pure abodes; Devas in the form and formless realms are too absorbed in their meditative state to think about anything else. To make things worse, they think they have reached the pinnacle of existence. In the similar fashion if you seek to convince a vedic yogi that he is on wrong track and wasting his time, he is very unlikely to even listen to you.

Anyway, I thought that every being who practice tantra could attain Buddhahood in a single lifetime, regardless in which form one appear.
Only true if one attains a level equivalent to the acceptance phase in the path of application. Otherwise, you will still be reborn.
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Re: Can Devas attain enlightenment?

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Kai lord wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 12:20 pmOnly true if one attains a level equivalent to the acceptance phase in the path of application. Otherwise, you will still be reborn.

It’s unfortunate against us that the text mentioned here isn’t available in English.

There has got to be a text by another advanced Guru/Lama out there that gives a similar outline, yeah?
Last edited by Sādhaka on Sun Mar 26, 2023 3:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Can Devas attain enlightenment?

Post by Kai lord »

Sādhaka wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 3:26 pm
Kai lord wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 12:20 pmOnly true if one attains a level equivalent to the acceptance phase in the path of application. Otherwise, you will still be reborn.

It’s unfortunate against us that the text mentioned here isn’t available in English.

There has got to be a text by another advanced Guru/Lama out there that gives a similar outline, yeah?
Quite a number of them actually. I even mentioned one of them recently, Jigme lingpa's famous commentary on Mahayoga, "Ladder/staircase to Akanistha"

Also several Gelugpa commentaries on completion stage where they break it down into five stages and then equate each to their corresponding stages as described in the five paths of Mahayana. Gelug even does similar breakdown for generation stage.
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Re: Can Devas attain enlightenment?

Post by Sādhaka »

Kai lord wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 4:14 pm
Sādhaka wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 3:26 pm
Kai lord wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 12:20 pmOnly true if one attains a level equivalent to the acceptance phase in the path of application. Otherwise, you will still be reborn.

It’s unfortunate against us that the text mentioned here isn’t available in English.

There has got to be a text by another advanced Guru/Lama out there that gives a similar outline, yeah?

Quite a number of them actually. I even mentioned one of them recently, Jigme lingpa's famous commentary on Mahayoga, "Ladder/staircase to Akanistha"

Also several Gelugpa commentaries on completion stage where they break it down into five stages and then equate each to their corresponding stages as described in the five paths of Mahayana. Gelug even does similar breakdown for generation stage.

Oh I see. Thank you.

Then in Jigme Lingpa’s text, he specifically mentions the stages of heat, path of application etc. as related to Mahayoga? Although since Mahayoga doesn’t have Completion Stage (as far as I’m aware) like Anuyoga & Anuttarayogatantra; his text may not touch on all the same points as Drakpa Gyaltsen’s text?

Of course Jigme Lingpa would have been quite familiar with—and even a master of—Anuyoga and Completion Stage in general, and therefore could very well have drawn from his knowledge of them in this text, even though the text’s main focus is on Mahayoga….
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Re: Can Devas attain enlightenment?

Post by Kai lord »

Sādhaka wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 4:24 pm
Kai lord wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 4:14 pm
Sādhaka wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 3:26 pm


It’s unfortunate against us that the text mentioned here isn’t available in English.

There has got to be a text by another advanced Guru/Lama out there that gives a similar outline, yeah?

Quite a number of them actually. I even mentioned one of them recently, Jigme lingpa's famous commentary on Mahayoga, "Ladder/staircase to Akanistha"

Also several Gelugpa commentaries on completion stage where they break it down into five stages and then equate each to their corresponding stages as described in the five paths of Mahayana. Gelug even does similar breakdown for generation stage.

Oh I see. Thank you.

Then in Jigme Lingpa’s text, he specifically mentions the stages of heat, path of application etc. as related to Mahayoga? Although since Mahayoga doesn’t have Completion Stage (as far as I’m aware) like Anuyoga & Anuttarayogatantra; his text may not touch on all the same points as Drakpa Gyaltsen’s text?

Of course Jigme Lingpa would have been quite familiar with—and even a master of—Anuyoga and Completion Stage in general, and therefore could very well have drawn from his knowledge of them in this text, even though the text’s main focus is on Mahayoga….
The book is largely about development stage and in some parts, he discussed about the various signs of accomplishments and fruition like the five Kayas as presented in Mahayoga tantras like the Magical web, etc.

Similar to what the Gelugpa did with their five stages, Jigme Lingpa basically linked up four divisions of approach and accomplishment & four vidyadhara levels with the five paths, for example, vidyadhara of maturation is equated to the acceptance phase in the path of application and so on.

If I were you, I wouldn't be bothered by the fact that development stage being suffice to bring one to vidyadhara of maturation and so on when you have practitioners accomplished the same feat using Ngondro as shared by many Nyingma gurus.
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Re: Can Devas attain enlightenment?

Post by Aemilius »

Malcolm wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2023 6:19 pm These citations merely mean that these devas generated bodhicitta.
I would not call it "merely". The enlightenment is a long process, as it is described in the system of the Five paths and Ten bhumis. All the steps of the path are necessary and important. The arising of the Bodhicitta is highly praised in the Mahayana sutras.

The awakening of the Dharma eye is an advanced stage:

"The five kinds of vision, or literally “five eyes” (Skt. pañcacakṣu) are:
1.the eye of flesh (Skt. māṃsacakṣu), which refers to an eye faculty developed through the force of one’s merit, having the ability to see all forms, gross or subtle, from one hundred leagues through to the limits of the three thousand-fold universe;
2.the divine eye (Skt. divyacakṣu), which is the effortless ability to see the births and deaths of all beings and is a result of the practice of meditation in past lives;
3.the wisdom eye (Skt. prajñācakṣu), which sees the truth of dharmata;
4.the Dharma eye (Skt. dharmacakṣu), which is the knowledge of the Dharma of scripture (or transmission) and realization, and of the faculties of noble beings who possess this Dharma;
5.the Buddha eye (Skt. buddhacakṣu), which is the primordial wisdom (yeshé) that sees all aspects of everything that can be known."
(Rigpa wiki)


In the Larger Sukhavati vyuha sutra humans and devas from different worlds attain rebirth in the pureland of Amitabha, and thus they can become enlightened.

Aemilius wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2023 3:48 pm The Perfection of Wisdom in 700 Lines (transl. of Edward Conze) says :

"Thereupon on that occasion, through the Buddha's might, the earth shook in six ways. And the thought of 16 000 monks were freed from the outflows without any further clinging, and 700 nuns, 300 laymen, 40 000 laywomen and 6000 niyutas of kotis of gods of the sphere of sense-desire produced the dispassionate, unstained eye of Dharma in dharmas."

The Holy Teaching of Vimalakirti, Chapter 1. Purification of the Buddha field (tr. Robert Thurman):

"Then both men and gods who subscribed to the disciple-vehicle thought, "Alas! All constructed things are impermanent." Thereby, thirty-two thousand living beings purified their immaculate, undistorted Dharma-eye in regard to all things. The eight thousand bhikshus were liberated from their mental defilements, attaining the state of non-grasping. And eighty-four thousand living beings who were devoted to the grandeur of the buddha-field, having understood that all things are by nature but magical creations, all conceived in their own minds the spirit of unexcelled, totally perfect enlightenment."

Chapter 5. The Consolation of the Invalid:

"When Vimalakirti had spoken this discourse, eight thousand of the gods in the company of the Crown prince Mañjushri conceived the spirit of unexcelled, perfect enlightenment."

Samdhi-Nirmocana sutra (tr. John Powers) 8. Chapter of Maitreya:

"When this teaching of the definitive meaning of yoga was explained, six hundred thousand living beings generated the aspiration toward completely perfect and unsurpassed enlightenment. Three hundred thousand Sravakas purified the Dharma eye that is free from dust and stainless with respect to the Dharma. One hundred and fifty thousand Sravakas liberated their minds from contamination such that they would not take rebirth. Seventy-five thousand Bodhisattvas attained the mental contemplation of the great yoga."
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
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Re: Can Devas attain enlightenment?

Post by Aemilius »

Larger Sutra on Amida Buddha (Daimuryojukyo, or Larger Sukhavativyuha Sutra)

This Sutra expounds the Sacred Story of Amida and was delivered by Shakyamuni Buddha and translated into Chinese during the Ts'ao-Wei dynasty by
the Tripitaka Master Samghavarman from India.

(Translated from Chinese by Hisao Inagaki)


(1. The higher grade)

[23] The Buddha said to Ananda, "Devas and humans in the worlds of the ten quarters who sincerely aspire to be born in that land can be classified into three grades. The higher grade of aspirants are those who leave their homes and abandon worldly desires to become monks. Having awakened aspiration for Enlightenment, they single-mindedly remember Amitayus and perform meritorious practices, aspiring to be born in his land. When they are about to die, Amitayus, together with a host of sages, will appear before them. Then they will follow him and attain birth in his land. At once they will be born by transformation spontaneously from within seven-jewelled lotus-flowers. They will dwell in the Stage of Non-retrogression, attain steadfast wisdom and be capable of freely exercising supernatural powers. For this reason, Ananda, sentient beings who wish to see Amitayus while in this world should awaken aspiration for the highest Enlightenment, do meritorious deeds, and aspire to be born in his land."

(2. The middle grade)

[24] The Buddha said to Ananda, "The middle grade of aspirants are the devas and humans in the worlds of the ten quarters who sincerely desire to be born in that land. Although unable to become monks and cultivate much merit, they awaken aspiration for the highest Enlightenment, single-mindedly think on Amitayus, perform some good deeds, observe the precepts of abstinence, build stupas, donate Buddhist statues, give alms to mendicants, hang banners, light candles, scatter flowers, burn incense, and so forth. They transfer the merit of those practices to his land, aspiring to be born there. When they are about to die, Amitayus will manifest his transformed body, which is fully possessed of the same radiance and physical characteristics and marks as those of the real Buddha, and make it appear before them, together with a host of sages. Then they will follow this transformed Buddha and be born in the Pure Land, where they will dwell in the Stage of Non-retrogression. Their virtue and wisdom will be next to those of the higher grade of aspirants."

(3. The lower grade)

[25] The Buddha said to Ananda, "The lower grade of aspirants are the devas and humans in the worlds of the ten quarters who sincerely desire to be born in that land. Although unable to do many meritorious deeds, they awaken aspiration for the highest Enlightenment and single-mindedly concentrate on Amitayus even ten times, desiring birth in his land. When they hear the profound Dharma, they joyfully accept it and do not entertain any doubt; and so, remembering the Buddha even once, they sincerely aspire to be born in that land. When they are about to die, they will see the Buddha in a dream. Those aspirants, too, will be born in the Pure Land. Their merit and wisdom will be next to those of the middle grade of aspirants."
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)
anagarika
Posts: 158
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Re: Can Devas attain enlightenment?

Post by anagarika »

This is something I ponder over again and again so I´ll add my two cents.

I think it would be helpful to distinguish two levels of this question, which may actually go against each other. The first one is the inner dynamics or logic of the Buddhadharma, and the second one are the texts (compiled by humans) that are an interpretation of the teachings. The thing is that the Buddhadharma is not anthropocentric, which is very easy to overlook especially for us coming from a (pseudo)Judeo-Christian background. If we closely examine the model of early Buddhist cosmology, human consciousness is not in any way priviliged and is certainly NOT the most evolved one in the hierarchy. On the contrary, it could be easily argued that humans are much closer to the suffering end of the spectrum, which corresponds to their level of consciousness. There are many, many levels above us and it would be really presumptuous to believe that somehow only we as humans are capable of fully understanding the Dharma. In fact, logic should tell us otherwise: If there are so many higher forms of intelligence/consciousness/mental purity, why would their ability to comprehend something as subtle as Dharma be more limited than ours? If there are being with fewer defilements, fewer hindrances, fewer bad tendencies, with better moral qualities and generally brighter mental disposition, why would this be a limiting factor in achieving further purification and sublimation? Doesn´t really make sense to me.

Now, it is true that often it is emphasized that human life is well-suited to practice the Dharma. I agree that it is extremely easy to observe the 3 characteristics here and that the attitude of nibbida (relinquisment, turning away from) can be cultivated here to the fullest. I would also agree that the experience of dukha in its grosser forms is what drives us towards seeking an escape. However, it doesn´t really make any sense to me why the human form should be the ONLY ONE conducive to liberation. I imagine this suspiciously strong emphasis is a subtle way of pushing an agenda against annihalitionists on one side and eternalist on the other - both these camps would naturally downplay the significance of human life and, above all, of practice and active cultivation of the liberating qualities.

There is also the problem of our anthropomorphic projections and notions of these higher beings. Some people picture them as angels, some as a bunch of partying hippies... I think the key takeaway from the Buddhist cosmological model is the hierarchy of mental states in terms of purity and subtlety. Often people argue that devas cannot practice because they are only indulging, but that´s very much our way of looking at things. There may be serious practitioners who are on their way beyond sensuality and the higher worlds of kama bhumi are simply their resting stops before going higher and higher. Who knows, I certainly don´t, but if you accept the primacy of mental existence over the physical one, then it should follow pretty much automatically that the refinement of consciousness is not dependent on the physical (ie. human) form and can take place anywhere. I find it really funny to think that beings that are supposedly much superior to us in terms of clarity, luminosity, lightness of being etc. cannot for example meditate or do the same or similar practice we do. On the contrary, I fancy it would be much easier to do the practice without being constantly bombared by the impulses of a gross brain etc. In one of the Burmese schools, they even have this notion of a stream-enterer who actually never comes back to the human world and by seeing faults in every conditioned state of being (including the heavens), he progressively ascends all the way up to the unconditioned. Seems bang on to me - after all the Buddha did not include something like "right material form" in the 8fold path. Moreover, as someone already noted, the anagamis (non-returners) are also said to achieve final liberation outside of human form.

All in all, at least in my humble opinion and upon closer logical examination, I am not at all convinced that awakening is available only to humans. I would be exteremely wary of anthropocentric biases here.
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: Can Devas attain enlightenment?

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

anagarika wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 12:18 pm In fact, logic should tell us otherwise: If there are so many higher forms of intelligence/consciousness/mental purity, why would their ability to comprehend something as subtle as Dharma be more limited than ours?
That’s a good point, as is the point of coarseness-subtlety of consciousness as being the determining factor.

But it’s also a bit like asking, if someone has a million dollars, how can they be unhappy?

I think one should not completely rule out the possibility of devas attaining realization. I think the issue is that they are sort of ‘stuck’ in that position, even if it’s a state of perfect meditative awareness.

And we could argue that animals which have much more highly developed sensory awareness, and who are naturally free from intellectualizing everything, who experience direct, raw, instinctive reality, without all of our human hang ups, that maybe they should be more likely to become Buddhas.

The human realm is in, to borrow a phrase, a “Goldilocks” range. It’s precisely because our conditions are impermanent and always changing that realization via the dharma is possible.
But then, this is a purely human point of view, isn’t it? It’s biased.
If there are being with fewer defilements, fewer hindrances, fewer bad tendencies, with better moral qualities and generally brighter mental disposition, why would this be a limiting factor in achieving further purification and sublimation? Doesn´t really make sense to me.
it doesn’t make sense. But just because someone had the capacity to realize attainment doesn’t mean they will even try. Just look at humans for many examples of that.

I am not at all convinced that awakening is available only to humans. I would be exteremely wary of anthropocentric biases here.
Well, the Buddha appears in the form of a human in order to liberate humans, and the whole concept of liberation from samsara, as we conceive it, is a human construct to begin with.

What liberation means, defined within a deva reality, might be, to humans, a completely unimaginable construct. It’s like describing colors to someone who has never had eyesight. It might be like that. Like a dog who can smell something that occurred yesterday as if it were occurring now. We cannot experience that mental state.

Maybe all we can say is that devas cannot attain anything that we as humans would define as “liberation from samsara” or “dukkha”, but that just because we have no concept of it, doesn’t mean it isn’t a reality to some other types of beings.
EMPTIFUL.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
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