American Indians Shipwrecked In Roman Germany 60 BCE / Roman Bronze Statue Depicts "Carib" Indian

[Aemilius]

"In this video we will be reading from French scholarly sources regarding a certain Bronze statute in the Louvre Museum, France. An antique Roman Bronze Bust of an American Indian, yes from Roman Times !!

We will also read from the writings of Pomponius Mela, who wrote around AD 43, he was the earliest Roman geographer.
A Primary Source Telling us that: “Metellus Celer once told Nepos about the fantastic sea voyage endured by a group of Indian merchants. Carried all the way to northern Europe by a terrible storm, the Indians were captured by a local German chieftain, who then presented them as a gift to Celer”

A writing from Roman times correlating with the Bronze statue bust of an American Indian !!
Ancient American Were navigating across oceans Voluntarily and Involuntarily by being caught in storms.
Europeans knew about American Indians."



"In this Video we will discuss how the Ancient Americans were building Ships capable of Navigating the seas. These ships went all the way to Europe, Africa, and Asia.
Along with shipbuilding skills and Navigational knowledge the ancient American had favorable winds and favorable sea currents that brought them right into Europe.
We will be reading from the book : “Africans and Native Americans” by Jack Forbes"

[Norwegian]

American Indians Shipwrecked In Roman Germany 60 BCE / Roman Bronze Statue Depicts "Carib" Indian

Nope.

https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/ques ... -in-60-b-c
https://www.jasoncolavito.com/blog/the- ... -in-60-bce
https://go.gale.com/ps/i.do?p=AONE&u=go ... d=a04ce476

DID YOU KNOW THAT NATIVE AMERICANS DISCOVERED Europe in 60 BCE? No? Well, you aren't reading the right websites and alternative history books. On May 15, Cracked.com, an online humor site run by former ABC News producer Jack O'Brien, published a piece on the "Six Ridiculous Lies You Believe about the Founding of America." Cracked.com articles present humorous or satirical discussions of fact-based material. O'Brien and co-author Alford Alley claimed that their article would expose the facts behind government and media distortion and simplification of American history. The authors sparked widespread discussion online by writing that "Columbus wasn't the first to cross the Atlantic. Nor were the vikings. [sic] Two Native Americans landed in Holland in 60 B.C. and were promptly not given a national holiday by anyone." (1) Within one week of publication, more than 1.7 million people had viewed the article and its shocking report of a Native American voyage to Roman-era Europe.

As a long-time observer of alternative histories, when I read this I wondered how I had missed such an important ancient record of trans-oceanic crossing. Surely, such a claim must have a solid basis in fact. Well, as it turns out, the Cracked.com writers are uncritically repeating a piece of centuries-old speculation that is widespread in alternative publications and online. In the original ancient texts on which this claim is ultimately based, the people were not Native Americans, were not two in number, and did not land in Holland. 60 BCE is about right, though, give or take.

I quote the conclusion as well, although the rest should also be read:

Conclusion

The long and short of it is that there is no independent confirmation that Native Americans washed up in Holland around 60 BCE. We can't rule out an accidental shipwreck of Native Americans, but the evidence from the brief ancient passages now extant argues against it. All of the extant texts (depending on the independence of Otto's account) are derived from a single paragraph in Pomponius Mela that spoke of merchants in a ship sailing from the east across the Caspian to arrive in Germany. From this we simply cannot derive the exact number of two, uncontested proof they were Native Americans, proof that they sailed from the west across the Atlantic, or a clear indication they landed in what is now the Netherlands. All of these claims are interpretations, with varying degrees of evidence supporting them and many alternative explanations. Thus, on almost every point excepting the date of landfall, the claim as currently presented in alternative, Afrocentrist, and diffusionist literature is demonstrably false. Claimants would do well to make plain to their audiences the difference between fact and interpretation.

[Aemilius]

Is still think they have gone to Europe.
There is also, for example, the "2,000 year old pills found at an ancient shipwreck in Tuscany, that have traces of Sunflower pollen."
But the Sceptic creed will naturally explain away everything.

[Norwegian]

Is still think they have gone to Europe.
There is also, for example, the "2,000 year old pills found at an ancient shipwreck in Tuscany, that have traces of Sunflower pollen."
But the Sceptic creed will naturally explain away everything.

We can't merely wish, think, or feel that things may have happened. We have to have actual legit evidence. And the ideas presented above have none of that. And no, being skeptical about fantastic claims is only healthy. It's up to the ones who present the claims to also present evidence. Without that, it can be discarded as fantasy, which it is.

As for your comment on the 2,000 year old pills, well:

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science- ... ll-403649/

https://novoscriptorium.com/2019/07/20/ ... shipwreck/

To find out what the medicines were made of, Fleischer extracted DNA from two of the tablets and sequenced DNA from the chloroplasts. Among the components were vegetables such as onions, carrots, parsley and cabbage, as well as alfalfa, hawthorn, hibiscus and chestnut – all known to have grown in the Mediterranean at the time, or available to Romans. “All this makes sense,” says team member Alain Touwaide, also at the Smithsonian. Sequencing also turned up a few head scratchers, including a new world plant called helianthus, that probably represent contamination.

Fleischer’s initial tests yielded results that Touwaide knew to be flawed. “He came up several times with lists of plants which were highly improbable because they were all plants traditionally thought to come from Asia or the New World,” Touwaide explained. “But last August, he came up with a completely different list of plants because he used the most advanced DNA technology available.”

Fleischer had detected traces of sunflower, a plant thought to have only existed in the Americas until the 16th century. “Fortunately for us, one of the people who participated in the excavation told us that, before going underwater, they put the bottles of oxygen beside the place where they were living,” Touwaide recalled. “This site was filled with sunflowers. So this presence of sunflower in our tablets might be the result of contamination.”

Has nothing to do with America or Native Americans.

Your problem is that you create a fantasy in your head, and then you build it, and you create alternative arguments for why your fantasy is reality and not reality itself, which you somehow reject.

[Aemilius]

It is not fantasy, it is based on facts that people have humbly presented. Like the information provided by Kurimeo Ahau in the Youtube. To my mind the bronze statue in Louvre really exists. It is only natural that people in the Americas would have been curious about what there might be on the other side of the ocean. Why would they have otherwise built their very large boats or canoes ? -As is told in the second video of Kurimeo Ahau.

[Aemilius]

Norwegian: "We can't merely wish, think, or feel that things may have happened. We have to have actual legit evidence. And the ideas presented above have none of that. And no, being skeptical about fantastic claims is only healthy. It's up to the ones who present the claims to also present evidence. Without that, it can be discarded as fantasy, which it is."

Do you want to know a secret teaching of the Stone-masons? It is that they create a synthetic reality, with new truths, that didn't exist before. When they have succeeded in getting these "truths" accepted and believed in by the large masses and by people like you and me, they have become the Creators or Gods. And we will live in the reality thus made, fabricated and created. Isn't that fantastic ?!

Sometimes there may remain a couple of individuals, who still remember what the truth was like before this new synthetic truth became the norm and public reality. But they are usually seen as "unreliable", "cranks" or "fringe "etc by the masses or the vast majority.

I don't just "feel", I am sure by a form of intuitive knowledge that in this question (of Am. Indians and Europe etc) there is a lot of stone-mason activity going on.

It is not only stone-masons that know and use this esoteric principle, the military, big companies, government briefing/information and the established religions and their organisations also do it. They make and synthesize the reality that we inhabit and live in.

Is "legit evidence" something other than mass-hypnosis, mass-suggestion, or the result of created "authorities" ?

How can there ever be something that is truly real?

[Bristollad]

Norwegian: "We can't merely wish, think, or feel that things may have happened. We have to have actual legit evidence. And the ideas presented above have none of that. And no, being skeptical about fantastic claims is only healthy. It's up to the ones who present the claims to also present evidence. Without that, it can be discarded as fantasy, which it is."

Do you want to know a secret teaching of the Stone-masons? It is that they create a synthetic reality, with new truths, that didn't exist before. When they have succeeded in getting these "truths" accepted and believed in by the large masses and by people like you and me, they have become the Creators or Gods. And we will live in the reality thus made, fabricated and created. Isn't that fantastic ?!

Sometimes there may remain a couple of individuals, who still remember what the truth was like before this new synthetic truth became the norm and public reality. But they are usually seen as "unreliable", "cranks" or "fringe "etc by the masses or the vast majority.

I don't just "feel", I am sure by a form of intuitive knowledge that in this question (of Am. Indians and Europe etc) there is a lot of stone-mason activity going on.

It is not only stone-masons that know and use this esoteric principle, the military, big companies, government briefing/information and the established religions and their organisations also do it. They make and synthesize the reality that we inhabit and live in.

Is "legit evidence" something other than mass-hypnosis, mass-suggestion, or the result of created "authorities" ?

How can there ever be something that is truly real?

This reminds me of the New Age theories I found unbelievable in the 1970s... I'm sorry, but I don't understand how you can credit these theories even with being remotely possible, never mind plausible or likely.

When we have to rely on mass conspiracies to explain a lack of evidence, then I feel we are on very shaky ground. We might as well go hard-core and accept the idea that we are all just part of an alien simulation, complete with an elaborate back story, that was only switched on a minute ago...

[Norwegian]

Norwegian: "We can't merely wish, think, or feel that things may have happened. We have to have actual legit evidence. And the ideas presented above have none of that. And no, being skeptical about fantastic claims is only healthy. It's up to the ones who present the claims to also present evidence. Without that, it can be discarded as fantasy, which it is."

Do you want to know a secret teaching of the Stone-masons? It is that they create a synthetic reality, with new truths, that didn't exist before. When they have succeeded in getting these "truths" accepted and believed in by the large masses and by people like you and me, they have become the Creators or Gods. And we will live in the reality thus made, fabricated and created. Isn't that fantastic ?!

Sometimes there may remain a couple of individuals, who still remember what the truth was like before this new synthetic truth became the norm and public reality. But they are usually seen as "unreliable", "cranks" or "fringe "etc by the masses or the vast majority.

I don't just "feel", I am sure by a form of intuitive knowledge that in this question (of Am. Indians and Europe etc) there is a lot of stone-mason activity going on.

It is not only stone-masons that know and use this esoteric principle, the military, big companies, government briefing/information and the established religions and their organisations also do it. They make and synthesize the reality that we inhabit and live in.

Is "legit evidence" something other than mass-hypnosis, mass-suggestion, or the result of created "authorities" ?

How can there ever be something that is truly real?

This reminds me of the New Age theories I found unbelievable in the 1970s... I'm sorry, but I don't understand how you can credit these theories even with being remotely possible, never mind plausible or likely.

When we have to rely on mass conspiracies to explain a lack of evidence, then I feel we are on very shaky ground. We might as well go hard-core and accept the idea that we are all just part of an alien simulation, complete with an elaborate back story, that was only switched on a minute ago...

This kind of New Age thinking that some people have, is one that really aligns with that of fascism:

New Agers and similar people may buy into silly ideas and conspiracy theories, and these things may come across as relatively harmless, but the way they think and operate is frighteningly similar to how fascism operates.

If one encourages and entertains this kind of thinking, it makes it all the more easier for people to buy into extreme arguments on the far-right, like that of fascism. Proper education, critical thinking, objective reasoning, introspection, acceptance of peer-reviews, and so on, all of these things are tools that combats both New Age and fascist patterns in individuals and groups. The reason why someone can become fascist is not because people are somehow inherently evil. It has to do with environment and that of becoming convinced of a certain kind of view due to whatever causes and conditions are present. People need education, be it formal and/or informal, in order to make sure that these developments never takes place.

Some people are willing to accept one guy's YouTube video, regardless of how insane the content is, vs. that of centuries of science, history, archaeology, linguistics, etc.

That is all it takes to convince someone on the venn-diagram spectrum of New Age / Fascism: One YouTube video.

No wonder we get MAGA, QAnon, Z, and all of this garbage that is polluting society.

[DNS]

This kind of New Age thinking that some people have, is one that really aligns with that of fascism:
New Agers and similar people may buy into silly ideas and conspiracy theories, and these things may come across as relatively harmless, but the way they think and operate is frighteningly similar to how fascism operates.

Cool Venn diagram. It looks accurate, I think I'll save that one. Reminds me of the horseshoe effect of how far left and far right are in some ways the same.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory

[Kim O'Hara]

...

This kind of New Age thinking that some people have, is one that really aligns with that of fascism:

New Agers and similar people may buy into silly ideas and conspiracy theories, and these things may come across as relatively harmless, but the way they think and operate is frighteningly similar to how fascism operates.

If one encourages and entertains this kind of thinking, it makes it all the more easier for people to buy into extreme arguments on the far-right, like that of fascism. Proper education, critical thinking, objective reasoning, introspection, acceptance of peer-reviews, and so on, all of these things are tools that combats both New Age and fascist patterns in individuals and groups. The reason why someone can become fascist is not because people are somehow inherently evil. It has to do with environment and that of becoming convinced of a certain kind of view due to whatever causes and conditions are present. People need education, be it formal and/or informal, in order to make sure that these developments never takes place.

Some people are willing to accept one guy's YouTube video, regardless of how insane the content is, vs. that of centuries of science, history, archaeology, linguistics, etc.

That is all it takes to convince someone on the venn-diagram spectrum of New Age / Fascism: One YouTube video.

No wonder we get MAGA, QAnon, Z, and all of this garbage that is polluting society.

And on that note we will hit the PAUSE button on this topic.

As usual, if anyone has anything really significant and relevant to add, feel free to contact a team member.


Kim