Has the Chöd practice become almost obsolete in modern times?

[yagmort]

i may be wrong but here's my curiosity: as far as i understand, the main thing about chöd is practicing in spooky, fear inducing environments (tib. nyentsa). back in the days in Tibet everyone knew who chodpas are, so there were no big obstacles for their practices. nowadays though, nyentsa seems no longer feasible as it used to be, as doing all these loud "weird" chöd things may call unwelcome attention from people who unaware of what’s going on, so they can be very judgemental or perhaps even hostile. is that the issue for chöd practice? or hostile people or cops are as welcome for the practice as visualized entities? if not, does that mean that practicing chöd in safe environments, as a home sadhana, make it just a pale of it former self and renders it essentially ineffective?

[Soma999]

Chod is much more than practicing in fearful environment.

I suggest you buy the book « the profund heart essence » of Lodro Tulku Rinpoche.

No need to go in fearful environnement. We have, as a rule, so many fears. Even people are scared in their own home. And for the inner demons, there are so many.

« Feeding your demons » by Tsulltrim Allione teaches a therapeutic approach of chod i highly recommend..

[Malcolm]

the main thing about chöd

The main thing about chod is understanding the four māras and cutting through them. The liturgy, instrumentation, etc., that's all secondary.

[BareBones]

i may be wrong but here's my curiosity: as far as i understand, the main thing about chöd is practicing in spooky, fear inducing environments (tib. nyentsa). back in the days in Tibet everyone knew who chodpas are, so there were no big obstacles for their practices. nowadays though, nyentsa seems no longer feasible as it used to be, as doing all these loud "weird" chöd things may call unwelcome attention from people who unaware of what’s going on, so they can be very judgemental or perhaps even hostile. is that the issue for chöd practice? or hostile people or cops are as welcome for the practice as visualized entities? if not, does that mean that practicing chöd in safe environments, as a home sadhana, make it just a pale of it former self and renders it essentially ineffective?

If you're creative, you can surely still find frightening, uncanny, or liminal spaces in which to practice. You can easily do so without being seen by confused observers. You can do so silently and without the physical accoutrements. Or, you can drive out to a lonely wilderness place and practice loudly there. Nobody is going to object to your damaru in the deep desert or forest.

[jet.urgyen]

It ain't obsolete, we just aren't in india, tibet, nepal, nor in places where you can perform without going to jail.

But, as Malcolm said "The liturgy, instrumentation, etc., that's all secondary.".

One can go by sitting in a bench and murmuring the words. It can work, but the only good thing is that even in nice and beautiful western cemeteries there is a ecosystem of beings, so there are many beings around.

[Adamantine]

In our current times, imho, no need to go to a special scary place because the whole world has become a scary place.
Impending climate catastrophe, random mass shootings,
global pandemics, threats of WWIII and nuclear armageddon—
all we need to do is read the news for 20min and voila!
And if that doesn’t incite any fear, then watch a good thriller movie or show, horror movie… or shock-doc like Faces of Death. Then grab your sadhana.

And if that’s still not enough, since most officials at modern cemeteries esp in countries dominated by Abrahamic religion won’t look kindly on a Chodpa practicing there, you could try simply going out into the woods in an isolated area in the middle of the night. Plenty of potential for bears, mountain lions, wolves, foxes, serial killers or escaped convicts, and spirits etc (or the idea of them). to frighten you depending on your location.

[Könchok Thrinley]

As long as there are 8 wordly concerns to worryabout there will be enough fear to use in the practice. Some of the biggest fears I've l8ved through in cozy apartments.

[climb-up]

i may be wrong but here's my curiosity: as far as i understand, the main thing about chöd is practicing in spooky, fear inducing environments (tib. nyentsa). back in the days in Tibet everyone knew who chodpas are, so there were no big obstacles for their practices. nowadays though, nyentsa seems no longer feasible as it used to be, as doing all these loud "weird" chöd things may call unwelcome attention from people who unaware of what’s going on, so they can be very judgemental or perhaps even hostile. is that the issue for chöd practice? or hostile people or cops are as welcome for the practice as visualized entities? if not, does that mean that practicing chöd in safe environments, as a home sadhana, make it just a pale of it former self and renders it essentially ineffective?

It's not primarily about practicing in spooky places, its totally relevant.
If you're serious about finding fear inducing environments though, and are willing to look around for them, you can definitely find them. Once found you can either practice the full chod liturgy, if appropriate, or the essential concise practice if the full liturgy is not appropriate.

[Vajrasvapna]

i may be wrong but here's my curiosity: as far as i understand, the main thing about chöd is practicing in spooky, fear inducing environments (tib. nyentsa). back in the days in Tibet everyone knew who chodpas are, so there were no big obstacles for their practices. nowadays though, nyentsa seems no longer feasible as it used to be, as doing all these loud "weird" chöd things may call unwelcome attention from people who unaware of what’s going on, so they can be very judgemental or perhaps even hostile. is that the issue for chöd practice? or hostile people or cops are as welcome for the practice as visualized entities? if not, does that mean that practicing chöd in safe environments, as a home sadhana, make it just a pale of it former self and renders it essentially ineffective?

The Chöd practice is the main Buddhist practice, since at even the Buddha times practice to cut self-clinging at dangerous places was already a teaching. However some people just forget about the cutting part of the practice...

[Johnny Dangerous]

For most people today fear-inducing environments would be the workplace, “bad” areas of town, meetings, being around people one is afraid of, etc.

[yagmort]

No need to go in fearful environnement.

is it the case for all Chod traditions or just some?
if i recall in Dudjom Saraha Nyingtig there is the whole chapter specificly about locating/identifying fear-inducing places. also, visiting 108 cemeteries is in most chod traditions.

...and cutting through them.

and chod propose nyentsa as the most effective - go hard or go home - way to do it.. or not?

anyways, i thought that the strength and effectiveness of Chod practice comes from wandering from place to place without destination and practicing in fearful places, with the tent and the rest of paraphernalia, at least initially, so doing chod at home or as group sadhana at a monastery seems like diminishing its effectiveness greately. is that the case or am i mistaken?

[Tongnyid Dorje]

No need to go in fearful environnement.

is it the case for all Chod traditions or just some?
if i recall in Dudjom Saraha Nyingtig there is the whole chapter specificly about locating/identifying fear-inducing places. also, visiting 108 cemeteries is in most chod traditions.

...and cutting through them.

and chod propose nyentsa as the most effective - go hard or go home - way to do it.. or not?

anyways, i thought that the strength and effectiveness of Chod practice comes from wandering from place to place without destination and practicing in fearful places, with the tent and the rest of paraphernalia, at least initially, so doing chod at home or as group sadhana at a monastery seems like diminishing its effectiveness greately. is that the case or am i mistaken?

well, according to my understanding of Dudjom Troma practice, its far better to do practice of Four Feasts in corresponding enviroment to provoke certain experience, cos theirs purpose is much deeper.

[Silent Bob]

In a long-ago community meeting in Boulder someone asked Trungpa Rinpoche if practicing chod in cemetery on University Hill would be charnel ground practice.
"Just go work in a hospital", CTR replied--'that's a real charnel ground".
I took him at his word, went back to school for a couple of years and spent the next 25 years of my life doing bedside patient care. It was a charnel ground for sure, but I (hardly ever) regretted my decision.

[heart]

In a long-ago community meeting in Boulder someone asked Trungpa Rinpoche if practicing chod in cemetery on University Hill would be charnel ground practice.
"Just go work in a hospital", CTR replied--'that's a real charnel ground".
I took him at his word, went back to school for a couple of years and spent the next 25 years of my life doing bedside patient care. It was a charnel ground for sure, but I (hardly ever) regretted my decision.

[Johnny Dangerous]

In a long-ago community meeting in Boulder someone asked Trungpa Rinpoche if practicing chod in cemetery on University Hill would be charnel ground practice.
"Just go work in a hospital", CTR replied--'that's a real charnel ground".
I took him at his word, went back to school for a couple of years and spent the next 25 years of my life doing bedside patient care. It was a charnel ground for sure, but I (hardly ever) regretted my decision.

Yeah, this is what I was getting at. If people want fearful and difficult environments, they are all over.

[climb-up]

In a long-ago community meeting in Boulder someone asked Trungpa Rinpoche if practicing chod in cemetery on University Hill would be charnel ground practice.
"Just go work in a hospital", CTR replied--'that's a real charnel ground".
I took him at his word, went back to school for a couple of years and spent the next 25 years of my life doing bedside patient care. It was a charnel ground for sure, but I (hardly ever) regretted my decision.

[Lingpupa]

A (Western) friend.practices Dudjom chöd. His (Tibetan) teacher was really encouraging about him practising in the woods, but.advised him strongly against returning to an abandoned house he had used. I've seen the place, and anyone would find it spooky: belongings scattered across the floors, dirty bedclothes still on the unmade bed...
I don't know if the lama has given a detailed explanation.

[yagmort]

...I don't know if the lama has given a detailed explanation.

darn it.. would be really interesting to know!

...If people want fearful and difficult environments, they are all over.

i am not getting the point, honestly. i am not saying there are not enough scary or haunted places nowadays, i am saying it's seems unlikely to be visiting them for practice regularly, as chod liturgy is quite loud and there will always be danger of violating some one's property, federal laws, social norms, etc.

[pemachophel]

Yagmort,

If you've practiced chod for some time, you should not need a liturgy (or drum, bell, dorje, etc.). You just recite (can be sotto voce) the key mantra and do the visualization. No one need know what you are doing. As Loppon has pointed out above, all the paraphernalia and even the liturgy is secondary. In fact and in my experience, all those accoutrements are often just spiritual materialism. I think the real problem with the practice of chod in the West turning it into cosplay.

[Kalavinka]