Maintaining harmony?

General discussion, particularly exploring the Dharma in the modern world.
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mxtransparent
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Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2023 11:40 pm

Maintaining harmony?

Post by mxtransparent »

I´m pretty new to buddhism, so please don´t judge if I got anything completely wrong.
To do right action is defined as doing the things that promote harmony and unity (in my source). So, I thought, for example a gay person who knows their family won´t respect their sexuality should keep quiet, since them coming out would cause disharmony, right? Or is it more important, that the person could experience pain if they don´t? It also causes disharmony if I don´t conceal my disability in public, so would it be good action to do so? I don´t know how I should feel about those because I´ve read that pain is inevitable so I guess it shouldn´t matter that the person feels bad in those situations if on the other hand, it maintains the harmony of the group. Is good action pretty much equal to accepting the opinions and actions most accepted (as long as those don´t cause more disharmony?)
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: Maintaining harmony?

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

mxtransparent wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 12:02 am I’m pretty new to buddhism, so please don´t judge if I got anything completely wrong.
There are so many factors involved in any situation, I don’t think a one-rule to apply to everything is possible. And Buddhism generally does not take such an approach. Sometimes it’s best to be direct with the truth about things, and sometimes one needs to let things pass if they don’t really matter in the long run one way or another. This is where wisdom is needed.

But you can consider, “will my actions change things? Will it matter a year from now? Would it make sense to wait a little longer?”

There is also the simple fact that some people just really can’t handle certain things without getting upset and defensive, and they will just never understand you. That’s a sad fact, especially when it includes family members or loved-ones. I’ve been in that situation. You might just have to live with it.

The other side of this, which can actually help one in terms of dharma, is to examine how much self-clinging actually contributes to the suffering of not being understood, or of having to hide things. One can ask “why does this really bother me?” and see how much it’s sort of a control issue.

The truth is, we can’t control how others react. Maybe that should have been the Buddha’s ‘fifth noble truth’ 😄
EMPTIFUL.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
Bristollad
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Re: Maintaining harmony?

Post by Bristollad »

Hiding and lying about important things in our lives, especially to those most close to us does not promote harmony or unity in the long term.

Right action does not necessarily mean going along with societal norms - instead we try:
to protect life and the environment we share;
to be generous with our time and possessions, knowledge and wisdom;
to ensure that our relationships are healthy and loving;
to live our lives with truthfulness;
and without substance abuse.

As PVS said, situations are always complicated with many factors to be weighed. But just hiding one’s sexuality or a disability because it might offend another’s sensibility is rarely the wise choice in my experience.
The antidote—to be free from the suffering of samsara—you need to be free from delusion and karma; you need to be free from ignorance, the root of samsara. So you need to meditate on emptiness. That is what you need. Lama Zopa Rinpoche
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: Maintaining harmony?

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

Bristollad wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 2:40 am As PVS said, situations are always complicated with many factors to be weighed. But just hiding one’s sexuality or a disability because it might offend another’s sensibility is rarely the wise choice in my experience.
I don’t see it as hiding, but as ‘guarding the truth’.

My point is, you have to evaluate whether it’s worth it or not. Sometimes it’s better to just let things go.
I have a very good friend, but if you have a conversation and disagree on some point, he takes it personally, like he’s being attacked personally for his beliefs. It’s not like ‘okay, we can agree to disagree’. It otherwise, he’s a very good person. It’s just something that probably results from the way he grew up. So, I don’t discuss certain topics with him. It may not be ideal, but I don’t have time to go into some group counseling thing or whatever because we disagree on some political-philosophy issue which doesn’t even directly affect either one of us anyway. And I have friends who haven’t come out to certain family members because it simply isn’t worth it, they know what the reaction would be and instead they just focus on other aspects of the relationship because ‘it’s not great aunt Betty’s business who you are partnering with anyhow.’

I think that when people are younger, it’s very important to be up front about everything. I know I was. I’m getting pretty old and you see how many crazy trips people are on, and it’s like, fux it…I don’t have time to wait around for their approval.
EMPTIFUL.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
Bristollad
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Re: Maintaining harmony?

Post by Bristollad »

PadmaVonSamba wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 5:12 am My point is, you have to evaluate whether it’s worth it or not. Sometimes it’s better to just let things go
I don't disagree, there are no hard and fast rules for such things I think, apart from to try and act/not-act from a place of compassion and wisdom.

Some relatives are little more than strangers who we know the names of - if we wouldn't walk up and discuss something with a stranger because it's personal and none of their business, the same can apply to known strangers.

Some of my daughter's friends who came out to their families all found it a lot less stressful than they imagined - all of their close family members already knew. But I also have one good friend who chose never to disclose his sexuality to his parents - their prejudice would've made it an insurmountable problem, strangely enough, a bigger problem than him becoming a Buddhist. Before they died, I'm fairly sure they guessed (they stopped asking him about partners, children, settling down) but keeping silent in that instance, let him maintain a loving relationship with them until the end.
The antidote—to be free from the suffering of samsara—you need to be free from delusion and karma; you need to be free from ignorance, the root of samsara. So you need to meditate on emptiness. That is what you need. Lama Zopa Rinpoche
muni
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Re: Maintaining harmony?

Post by muni »

mxtransparent wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 12:02 am I´m pretty new to buddhism, so please don´t judge if I got anything completely wrong.
To do right action is defined as doing the things that promote harmony and unity (in my source). So, I thought, for example a gay person who knows their family won´t respect their sexuality should keep quiet, since them coming out would cause disharmony, right? Or is it more important, that the person could experience pain if they don´t? It also causes disharmony if I don´t conceal my disability in public, so would it be good action to do so? I don´t know how I should feel about those because I´ve read that pain is inevitable so I guess it shouldn´t matter that the person feels bad in those situations if on the other hand, it maintains the harmony of the group. Is good action pretty much equal to accepting the opinions and actions most accepted (as long as those don´t cause more disharmony?)
It is not always easy to know whether we should speak or keep silence sometimes. You can perhaps first talk in general, like you speak of other fellows' disability, sexuality.. and see how they react on that?

But I would not too much worry about, since we can never please everyone, since all have different ideas, perceptions.
Harmony comes from inside and shines out in non-grasping peace. Expecting to maintain harmony outside/among others, could keep our own suffering going on.
DharmaJunior
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Re: Maintaining harmony?

Post by DharmaJunior »

I can see this as becoming an issue if the issue is raised by others: family and friends. So currently you're the one asking... they can't tell, but is your identity important? So do you sing from the rooftops and wear it on your sleeve so to speak? Well, you can do that maybe just not under the same roof. Are your friends also going to be hurt if there's a bit of secrecy going on?
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