Eating meat that is destined for the trash

General discussion, particularly exploring the Dharma in the modern world.
yinyangkoi
Posts: 138
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2021 1:41 pm

Eating meat that is destined for the trash

Post by yinyangkoi »

Hello,

I usually don't buy meat in order to reduce meat production and in order to minimize suffering. My question is now about meat that will be thrown away. There is an app that allows you to buy food that will be thrown away. It's always a surprise, and sometimes I get meat. I then eat this meat.
I feel this is acceptable since otherwise, the food would end up in the trash. What is your perspective?
Archie2009
Posts: 1585
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2020 10:39 pm

Re: Eating meat that is destined for the trash

Post by Archie2009 »

Don't get yourself food poisoning.
User avatar
PadmaVonSamba
Posts: 9443
Joined: Sat May 14, 2011 1:41 am

Re: Eating meat that is destined for the trash

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

This store in Taipei
Attachments
EAF6F578-058C-4A95-9893-E1B4362C9932.jpeg
EAF6F578-058C-4A95-9893-E1B4362C9932.jpeg (932.92 KiB) Viewed 807 times
EMPTIFUL.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
User avatar
Johnny Dangerous
Global Moderator
Posts: 17092
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:58 pm
Location: Olympia WA
Contact:

Re: Eating meat that is destined for the trash

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

yinyangkoi wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 11:38 am Hello,

I usually don't buy meat in order to reduce meat production and in order to minimize suffering. My question is now about meat that will be thrown away. There is an app that allows you to buy food that will be thrown away. It's always a surprise, and sometimes I get meat. I then eat this meat.
I feel this is acceptable since otherwise, the food would end up in the trash. What is your perspective?
Yes, if you are going to worry about ethics of your diet, IMO the most ethical thing to do is eat what would otherwise be thrown away.

I question how important such decisions are in comparison to other ethical decisions in daily life, but I think if someone is going to do it that is the most ethical position.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared

-Khunu Lama
User avatar
Sādhaka
Posts: 1278
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2016 4:39 pm

Re: Eating meat that is destined for the trash

Post by Sādhaka »

That's a good intention, however I'd say that in long run, eating as healthy as you can for your own health, would benefit yourself and other sentient beings more.

If eating meat, then that means grass-fed, organic, pasture-raised etc. Not factory-farmed unhealthy grain-fed meat.

As for eating meat that is about to spoil, if it's already cooked then I would not risk it. If it's raw, it'll probably be fine no matter what as long as you cook it thoroughly.
User avatar
Sādhaka
Posts: 1278
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2016 4:39 pm

Re: Eating meat that is destined for the trash

Post by Sādhaka »

Also eating raw meat isn't even that risky for people who have a good microbiome/gut-flora; but even then, the lower quality the raw meat, the bigger the risk of getting sick.
yinyangkoi
Posts: 138
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2021 1:41 pm

Re: Eating meat that is destined for the trash

Post by yinyangkoi »

Sādhaka wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 4:48 pm That's a good intention, however I'd say that in long run, eating as healthy as you can for your own health, would benefit yourself and other sentient beings more.

If eating meat, then that means grass-fed, organic, pasture-raised etc. Not factory-farmed unhealthy grain-fed meat.

As for eating meat that is about to spoil, if it's already cooked then I would not risk it. If it's raw, it'll probably be fine no matter what as long as you cook it thoroughly.
So you buy fresh meat? How does it make you feel?
User avatar
Sādhaka
Posts: 1278
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2016 4:39 pm

Re: Eating meat that is destined for the trash

Post by Sādhaka »

Eh, I think that I can see where this is going.

I'm not particularly proud of being able to (kind of) afford grass-fed meat etc. We all have different karmas. I have some pretty bad karmic fruitions in my life; however being able to currently (kind of) afford organic food & such apparently isn't one of them....

Anyhow, instead of talking about "feelings", maybe address the substance of my post with logic?
Last edited by Sādhaka on Wed Jan 18, 2023 6:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
Johnny Dangerous
Global Moderator
Posts: 17092
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:58 pm
Location: Olympia WA
Contact:

Re: Eating meat that is destined for the trash

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

Sādhaka wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 6:25 pm Eh, I think that I can see where this is going.

I'm not particularly proud of being able to (kind of) afford grass-fed meat etc. We all have different karmas. I have some pretty bad karmic fruitions in my life; however being able to currently (kind of) afford organic food & such apparently isn't one of them....

Anyhow, instead of talking about "feelings", maybe address the substance of my post with logic?
Logic, what exactly is your logic? Your eating habits are fully based in your own arbitrary (and often completely non-evidence based) ideas about purity of substances, best not be trying to lecture anyone else on their logic.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared

-Khunu Lama
User avatar
Johnny Dangerous
Global Moderator
Posts: 17092
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:58 pm
Location: Olympia WA
Contact:

Re: Eating meat that is destined for the trash

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

yinyangkoi wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 5:25 pm
Sādhaka wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 4:48 pm That's a good intention, however I'd say that in long run, eating as healthy as you can for your own health, would benefit yourself and other sentient beings more.

If eating meat, then that means grass-fed, organic, pasture-raised etc. Not factory-farmed unhealthy grain-fed meat.

As for eating meat that is about to spoil, if it's already cooked then I would not risk it. If it's raw, it'll probably be fine no matter what as long as you cook it thoroughly.
So you buy fresh meat? How does it make you feel?
I don’t feel bad eating ‘normal’ meat every now and then. In terms of net contribution to industrial agriculture, I think if you want to participate less simply eating less meat and not wasting food is reasonable. Being a purist about it is just ego gratification really.

We contribute in all kinds of ways to suffering and death through the economy that have nothing to do with food, choosing to be a purist about only food makes one an automatic hypocrite in this sense.

It’s an instinctive impulse for people to be preoccupied with the purity of their food, but many of the preoccupations are just the Eight Worldy Concerns, and as such lead nowhere.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared

-Khunu Lama
User avatar
PadmaVonSamba
Posts: 9443
Joined: Sat May 14, 2011 1:41 am

Re: Eating meat that is destined for the trash

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

Sādhaka wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 4:52 pm Also eating raw meat isn't even that risky for people who have a good microbiome/gut-flora; but even then, the lower quality the raw meat, the bigger the risk of getting sick.
It all depends. As soon as meat is cut, it begins to develop bacterial growth. People eat raw steak safely, but eating raw ground beef would be a very bad idea.
EMPTIFUL.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
User avatar
Sādhaka
Posts: 1278
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2016 4:39 pm

Re: Eating meat that is destined for the trash

Post by Sādhaka »

Johnny Dangerous wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 7:44 pm
Sādhaka wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 6:25 pm Eh, I think that I can see where this is going.

I'm not particularly proud of being able to (kind of) afford grass-fed meat etc. We all have different karmas. I have some pretty bad karmic fruitions in my life; however being able to currently (kind of) afford organic food & such apparently isn't one of them....

Anyhow, instead of talking about "feelings", maybe address the substance of my post with logic?
Logic, what exactly is your logic? Your eating habits are fully based in your own arbitrary (and often completely non-evidence based) ideas about purity of substances, best not be trying to lecture anyone else on their logic.

I didn't lecture anyone. I simply asked to address the substance of my post.

In actual nature, their is no pure or impure (well, aside from the fact that some plant toxins and animal poisons can mess people up or even kill them). But I'm talking about our food getting polluted with synthetic toxins, which are totally unnecessary.
User avatar
Johnny Dangerous
Global Moderator
Posts: 17092
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:58 pm
Location: Olympia WA
Contact:

Re: Eating meat that is destined for the trash

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

Sādhaka wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 8:06 pm
Johnny Dangerous wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 7:44 pm
Sādhaka wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 6:25 pm Eh, I think that I can see where this is going.

I'm not particularly proud of being able to (kind of) afford grass-fed meat etc. We all have different karmas. I have some pretty bad karmic fruitions in my life; however being able to currently (kind of) afford organic food & such apparently isn't one of them....

Anyhow, instead of talking about "feelings", maybe address the substance of my post with logic?
Logic, what exactly is your logic? Your eating habits are fully based in your own arbitrary (and often completely non-evidence based) ideas about purity of substances, best not be trying to lecture anyone else on their logic.

I didn't lecture anyone. I simply asked to address the substance of my post.

In actual nature, their is no pure or impure (well, aside from the fact that some plant toxins and animal poisons can mess people up or even kill them). But I'm talking about our food getting polluted with synthetic toxins, which are totally unnecessary.
Your just stated an opinion about purity of grass fed beef, etc. If you want people to address a logical point, then make one beyond vague talk about “toxins.”

There are certainly serious issues with the food supply under industrial agriculture, but if you want to address them you should do that specifically instead of just engaging in magical thinking about food, and calling it “logic” when people question you.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared

-Khunu Lama
reiun
Posts: 978
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2020 4:08 pm
Location: Florida USA

Re: Eating meat that is destined for the trash

Post by reiun »

Mahaparinirvana Sutra & Abstaining From Eating Meat and Fish, Even Died by Natural Causes - 1/5

Then The Bodhisattva Kashyapa addressed the Blessed Lord and said, “Lord, you do not partake of meat, and to eat meat is indeed unfitting. And if anyone were to ask me why this is so, I would answer that those who refrain from eating it are possessed of eight excellent qualities.”

“That is very good,” the Buddha answered Kashyapa. “You well perceive the intention of my mind. This indeed is how the Bodhisattvas, custodians of my Doctrine, should understand. Son of my lineage, even the Shravakas, those who keep close company with me, must not eat meat. Even if, in a gesture of faith, almsgivers provide them with meat, they must shrink from it as they would shrink from the flesh of their own children.”

Then the Bodhisattva Kashyapa asked the Buddha, “But why indeed, O Lord and Tathagata, do you forbid the consumption of meat?” “Son of my lineage!” the Lord replied. “Eating meat destroys the attitude of great compassion.” “But in the past, O Lord,” asked Kashyapa, “did you not allow the eating of meat found suitable after it as been examined in three ways?” “Yes,” the Buddha said. “I allowed the eating of meat found suitable after threefold examination, in order to assist those who were striving to overcome their habit of eating meat.”

“Why then,” asked Kashyapa, “did you proscribe the eating of ten kinds of unexamined meat and so on, up to the nine types of examined meat?”

“This too I did,” the Buddha said, ‘in order to help my followers in the overcoming of their habit. In short, all such provisions I made for one purpose: that the consumption of meat be brought to an end.”
User avatar
PadmaVonSamba
Posts: 9443
Joined: Sat May 14, 2011 1:41 am

Re: Eating meat that is destined for the trash

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

Everything you eat is destined to be poop.
EMPTIFUL.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
User avatar
Sādhaka
Posts: 1278
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2016 4:39 pm

Re: Eating meat that is destined for the trash

Post by Sādhaka »

reiun wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 9:52 pm Mahaparinirvana Sutra & Abstaining From Eating Meat and Fish, Even Died by Natural Causes - 1/5

Then The Bodhisattva Kashyapa addressed the Blessed Lord and said, “Lord, you do not partake of meat, and to eat meat is indeed unfitting. And if anyone were to ask me why this is so, I would answer that those who refrain from eating it are possessed of eight excellent qualities.”

“That is very good,” the Buddha answered Kashyapa. “You well perceive the intention of my mind. This indeed is how the Bodhisattvas, custodians of my Doctrine, should understand. Son of my lineage, even the Shravakas, those who keep close company with me, must not eat meat. Even if, in a gesture of faith, almsgivers provide them with meat, they must shrink from it as they would shrink from the flesh of their own children.”

Then the Bodhisattva Kashyapa asked the Buddha, “But why indeed, O Lord and Tathagata, do you forbid the consumption of meat?” “Son of my lineage!” the Lord replied. “Eating meat destroys the attitude of great compassion.” “But in the past, O Lord,” asked Kashyapa, “did you not allow the eating of meat found suitable after it as been examined in three ways?” “Yes,” the Buddha said. “I allowed the eating of meat found suitable after threefold examination, in order to assist those who were striving to overcome their habit of eating meat.”

“Why then,” asked Kashyapa, “did you proscribe the eating of ten kinds of unexamined meat and so on, up to the nine types of examined meat?”

“This too I did,” the Buddha said, ‘in order to help my followers in the overcoming of their habit. In short, all such provisions I made for one purpose: that the consumption of meat be brought to an end.”

Provisional teaching.

Pratyekayana (the Buddha's "original" teaching) doesn't forbid meat, and even Shardza Tashi Gyaltsen—who is considered within the Vajrayana world to be a monastic-favoring "prude" himself ended up admitting that up until a specific point, that eating meat is a necessary evil for having strength to walk the Path.

If you can do vegetarianism with ghee, raw milk, and so on without meat, that's respectable. However trying to go vegan before mastery of Chulen is foolhardy.
User avatar
Johnny Dangerous
Global Moderator
Posts: 17092
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:58 pm
Location: Olympia WA
Contact:

Re: Eating meat that is destined for the trash

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

reiun wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 9:52 pm Mahaparinirvana Sutra & Abstaining From Eating Meat and Fish, Even Died by Natural Causes - 1/5

Then The Bodhisattva Kashyapa addressed the Blessed Lord and said, “Lord, you do not partake of meat, and to eat meat is indeed unfitting. And if anyone were to ask me why this is so, I would answer that those who refrain from eating it are possessed of eight excellent qualities.”

“That is very good,” the Buddha answered Kashyapa. “You well perceive the intention of my mind. This indeed is how the Bodhisattvas, custodians of my Doctrine, should understand. Son of my lineage, even the Shravakas, those who keep close company with me, must not eat meat. Even if, in a gesture of faith, almsgivers provide them with meat, they must shrink from it as they would shrink from the flesh of their own children.”

Then the Bodhisattva Kashyapa asked the Buddha, “But why indeed, O Lord and Tathagata, do you forbid the consumption of meat?” “Son of my lineage!” the Lord replied. “Eating meat destroys the attitude of great compassion.” “But in the past, O Lord,” asked Kashyapa, “did you not allow the eating of meat found suitable after it as been examined in three ways?” “Yes,” the Buddha said. “I allowed the eating of meat found suitable after threefold examination, in order to assist those who were striving to overcome their habit of eating meat.”

“Why then,” asked Kashyapa, “did you proscribe the eating of ten kinds of unexamined meat and so on, up to the nine types of examined meat?”

“This too I did,” the Buddha said, ‘in order to help my followers in the overcoming of their habit. In short, all such provisions I made for one purpose: that the consumption of meat be brought to an end.”
This is important for Buddhist/schools that consider this sutra a definitive teaching, for others it is not terribly important.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared

-Khunu Lama
User avatar
Sādhaka
Posts: 1278
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2016 4:39 pm

Re: Eating meat that is destined for the trash

Post by Sādhaka »

PadmaVonSamba wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 10:06 pm Everything you eat is destined to be poop.

Yea but what does it do to your body on the way out?

Fish with non-Alchemized mercury & other pollutants; other meats & plants with glyphosate, etc.

Anyhow, yes it would be ideal for every being to be able to sustain their own life without having to consume other life.
User avatar
Kim O'Hara
Former staff member
Posts: 7064
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:09 am
Location: North Queensland, Australia

Re: Eating meat that is destined for the trash

Post by Kim O'Hara »

yinyangkoi wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 11:38 am Hello,

I usually don't buy meat in order to reduce meat production and in order to minimize suffering. My question is now about meat that will be thrown away. There is an app that allows you to buy food that will be thrown away. It's always a surprise, and sometimes I get meat. I then eat this meat.
I feel this is acceptable since otherwise, the food would end up in the trash. What is your perspective?
:good:

This is a good question about ethics. It's a shame that people have jumped on their hobby-horses and galloped madly off in other directions.

:focus:

Please!

:namaste:
Kim
reiun
Posts: 978
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2020 4:08 pm
Location: Florida USA

Re: Eating meat that is destined for the trash

Post by reiun »

yinyangkoi wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 11:38 am Hello,

I usually don't buy meat in order to reduce meat production and in order to minimize suffering.
Yes, same here.
yinyangkoi wrote:My question is now about meat that will be thrown away. There is an app that allows you to buy food that will be thrown away. It's always a surprise, and sometimes I get meat. I then eat this meat.
I feel this is acceptable since otherwise, the food would end up in the trash. What is your perspective?
It is your decision entirely, no judgement from me.
I have been served meatless meals only, as a standard practice at every buddhist center or monastery I have lived at or visited. As I said, I do not buy meat. (I get B12 otherways.) If I am a guest, I eat what is served, so as not to affect the host/cook, a compromise for sure. I have bonded with many animals--dogs, cats, birds and horses. My decision has been thusly shaped.
Locked

Return to “Dharma in Everyday Life”