Questions on Meditation

[Jokingfish]

1. What are long / short breaths? (just whenever your breathing is longer or shorter?)

2. How true is that whenever you inhale you exhale a little while inhaling (and vice versa)?

3. Any more tricks that one should know like mentioned in question 2? I've heard that one should feel the breathing as if its empty in the lungs only air but nothing else..? (Haven't had that experience that would make me understand that there's only air in lungs (?) , not that mindful of my lungs, though ive started being mindful that while you exhale you also inhale a little (and vice versa)).

4. How true is it that when meditation of breathing becomes interesting more than thoughts, is a step forward? Anything one should know more on this topic?

[Ayu]

Those ideas sound foreign to me. What is your source?

I was told, the common breath meditation that calms the mind and that is recommended especially for beginners
has to be performed freely. The breath is not being forced, just observed.

So, there's no question about long or short breath in this context.

Other breathing methods are related to kundalini or tantra methods. These need a direct teacher in meatspace and they should be restricted IMHO.

[muni]

1. What are long / short breaths? (just whenever your breathing is longer or shorter?)

2. How true is that whenever you inhale you exhale a little while inhaling (and vice versa)?

3. Any more tricks that one should know like mentioned in question 2? I've heard that one should feel the breathing as if its empty in the lungs only air but nothing else..? (Haven't had that experience that would make me understand that there's only air in lungs (?) , not that mindful of my lungs, though ive started being mindful that while you exhale you also inhale a little (and vice versa)).

4. How true is it that when meditation of breathing becomes interesting more than thoughts, is a step forward? Anything one should know more on this topic?

1. I don't know what you mean, sorry. But some long breaths when starting meditation is often recommended to relax, release obstructions like emotions, let go sorrow.

4. I jump directly to 4 Yes. One example: Focus is on breath a while, then let even that focus go.

"Our own mind is what leads us astray in the cycle of existence. Blind to its true nature, we fixate on thoughts, which are nothing other than the manifestations of that nature. Pure awareness becomes frozen into solid concepts such as “self” and “other,” “desirable” and “repulsive,” and many more. That is how we create samsara.

If we can melt the ice of these fixations by following the instructions of a spiritual master, pure awareness will recover its natural fluidity. Put another way, when we cut a tree at the base, the trunk, branches and leaves all fall at the same time. Similarly, if we cut thoughts off at their source, the delusion of samsara will fall away entirely." Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

[PadmaVonSamba]

1. What are long / short breaths?

a deep breath, and a shallow breath. Sometimes when one is really relaxed and not moving and the mind is focused, you may feel as though you have stopped breathing. Sometimes people panic. But it’s okay. You are still breathing!

2. How true is that whenever you inhale you exhale a little while inhaling (and vice versa)?

not true.

3. Any more tricks that one should know like mentioned in question 2?

No. Just breathe. Looking for any sort of meditation enhancing ‘trick’ is missing the whole point.

Our whole life, 24/7, we are doing stuff, tying to get something or trying to get somewhere, when we are awake, and even when we are dreaming. The purpose of all of this busy activity is to feed into and reinforce self-grasping.

Sitting meditation is the complete opposite of that. When you sit (meditate), just sit. This is why it is such a challenge at first. This is why it seems so boring at first and why people feel restless, because meditation turns off the busy TV in our minds. Meditation is the most pointless, unproductive thing a person can do, which is exactly the reason for doing it.

4. How true is it that when meditation of breathing becomes interesting more than thoughts, is a step forward?

“Interesting” may not be the right word. But at some point it can definitely become one’s preferred activity. For example, if you are waiting a long time for something, such as an airplane flight or a medical appointment, you may find that having that time to meditate is better than flipping through magazines or looking for “some way to keep busy”.

I have a friend whose mother is like this. She always has to keep busy doing something, straightening couch cushions or wiping dust off a table or whatever. Not OCD, just convinced that rest is something that must be earned. Even then, just sitting is not allowed. The TV must be turned on while relaxing, so that the latest news show isn’t missed. I don’t think she could ever be convinced to try “doing nothing” meditation for even 5 minutes.
But such people find great satisfaction this way. It’s very rewarding psychologically to say at the end of the day “I got all this stuff done!” But that’s basically self-grasping. It’s fine to have goals and tasks to complete. But it’s also okay to just sit and watch air go in and out of your nostrils.

It’s better in a way, because in meditation, we are bringing the mind back to square-one, back to its “original factory setting”, its natural state. That’s why it is such a good practice in the morning. Just as you wouldn’t put your breakfast in a dirty plate from last night’s dinner, why start your day with a mind that is already full of yesterday’s leftovers?

That’s really the issue. We are always looking for some way to “keep busy”. There’s a big idea in western (‘Protestant’) culture that if you aren’t constantly busy doing something, not striving to get something, that you are wasting time. But once you realize that’s not true, and that there is much benefit from the mind just being relaxed and focused, you want to do that instead.

Anything one should know more on this topic?

Although one shouldn’t go looking for meditation-enhancing “tricks”, there are many things that can help the meditator improve their focus. Watching the breath is, in fact, simply one type of thing.
Another thing is, after you get comfortably positioned, just before you start, “freeze like a statue” for a moment or two, just to bring all of your body’s movement to a stop, and then relax into that stillness. This will help cut down on the need to wiggle.
Something that I have found really useful is to actually say out loud, “the next 30 (or whatever) minutes is devoted only to meditation” before beginning. It may sound stupid, because I’m the only person in the room. But it’s a kind of psychological thing. Formally declaring my intentions out loud helps me to ignore inner and outer distractions. It’s like I’ve given myself permission, for that brief time period, to not be busy with other stuff that needs to be done.

[justsit]

The first ten minutes of this video gives very good basic meditation instruction. There are pauses where it seems like the video has stopped or is finished - those are spaces where you just continue following the breath. The gong signals the end of meditation.

Try not to force things. Our minds are conditioned to listen to thoughts as though they are solid; it takes training to let thoughts go. I like the "clouds in the sky" metaphor, just let thoughts pass by. The content of the thought doesn't matter.

Ten minutes is a good amount of time to begin with, once you're comfortable with that you can extend your sessions. There's no rush.

https://youtu.be/Zl9FRX8kalE

[Jokingfish]

I said '2. How true is that whenever you inhale you exhale a little while inhaling (and vice versa)?'
PadmaVonSamba said 'not true.'

Ive noticed that when you inhale, a little bit of air while inhaling gets out from lungs, and when you exhale, a little bit of air comes in while exhaling. Proof : 1 inhale and after that, close your nose and mouth with hand - air will not leave, inhale and don't close your mouth or nose, and some air while inhaling will leave. Or 2. inhale, get underwater, see how long will you stay there compared to - inhale and just stay not underwater but not breathing, you will breath a little because lungs work that way unless you close your nose as if underwater. I find that when you watch this exchange of air it becomes to be very nice mindfulness, more interesting to breathe, works better.

Anybody knows more about this?

Edit : to be honest the mentioned proofs aren't that precise, just notice this while breathing.. (i wonder if anybody else noticed this?)

[Bristollad]

Nope, I agree with PVS; it's not true in my experience.

[PadmaVonSamba]

Nope, I agree with PVS; it's not true in my experience.

I’ve been learning a bit about how breathing works (because I had a double lung transplant about a year ago) and air is either moving one direction or the other, but not both at once.

There is, however, something called ‘circular breathing’ that Tibetan horn players (and others) utilize, which involves blowing out air held in your mouth while simultaneously inhaling through your nose. Your mouth muscles are doing one thing while your lungs and diaphragm are doing something else.

Perhaps this is what is happening.

[Bristollad]

Yeah, I've encountered circular breathing before - used by various brass instrument and didgeridoo players! But the description given of inhaling whilst exhaling and vice-versa doesn't seem to match that.

[Johnny Dangerous]

1. What are long / short breaths? (just whenever your breathing is longer or shorter?)

2. How true is that whenever you inhale you exhale a little while inhaling (and vice versa)?

3. Any more tricks that one should know like mentioned in question 2? I've heard that one should feel the breathing as if its empty in the lungs only air but nothing else..? (Haven't had that experience that would make me understand that there's only air in lungs (?) , not that mindful of my lungs, though ive started being mindful that while you exhale you also inhale a little (and vice versa)).

4. How true is it that when meditation of breathing becomes interesting more than thoughts, is a step forward? Anything one should know more on this topic?

The point is just to watch the breath, let it be as it is, and to note “this is a short breath, this is a long breath”. You don’t modify or analyze, just observe and let it be as it is naturally.

[Jokingfish]

Yeah, i think my observation of idea that exhalation while inhalation, was incorrect. Although now i sense my breath better since learned more from an error. Though i wonder how i managed to get that idea in the first place..

[master of puppets]

Yeah, i think my observation of idea that exhalation while inhalation, was incorrect. Although now i sense my breath better since learned more from an error. Though i wonder how i managed to get that idea in the first place..

[reiun]

This short video with Meido Roshi focuses on diaphragmatic breathing, also known as belly breathing, the way a baby naturally breathes.

[Johnny Dangerous]

Also on the question of breath, it’s always good to go old school and get that perspective:

"[1] Breathing in long, he discerns, 'I am breathing in long'; or breathing out long, he discerns, 'I am breathing out long.' [2] Or breathing in short, he discerns, 'I am breathing in short'; or breathing out short, he discerns, 'I am breathing out short.' [3] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in sensitive to the entire body.'[2] He trains himself, 'I will breathe out sensitive to the entire body.' [4] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in calming bodily fabrication.'[3] He trains himself, 'I will breathe out calming bodily fabrication.'

"[5] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in sensitive to rapture.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out sensitive to rapture.' [6] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in sensitive to pleasure.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out sensitive to pleasure.' [7] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in sensitive to mental fabrication.'[4] He trains himself, 'I will breathe out sensitive to mental fabrication.' [8] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in calming mental fabrication.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out calming mental fabrication.'

"[9] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in sensitive to the mind.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out sensitive to the mind.' [10] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in satisfying the mind.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out satisfying the mind.' [11] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in steadying the mind.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out steadying the mind.' [12] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in releasing the mind.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out releasing the mind.'[5]

"[13] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in focusing on inconstancy.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out focusing on inconstancy.' [14] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in focusing on dispassion [literally, fading].' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out focusing on dispassion.' [15] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in focusing on cessation.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out focusing on cessation.' [16] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in focusing on relinquishment.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out focusing on relinquishment.'

"This is how mindfulness of in-&-out breathing is developed & pursued so as to be of great fruit, of great benefit.

[Jokingfish]

If there's short or long breath, is there average medium breath..?

[haha]

When one is breathing by taking longer time, it is long breath. When one is breathing by taking shorter time, it is short breath. This is one perspective. Medium breath! Why not? If one is breathing by talking medium time, it is medium breath. Lol

I heard some hindu yogis recounting their experiences air coming from ears. Doing various kind of breathing, one has the perception of air leaking thorough ears. Some so called esoteric practice claims breathing through skins. Come to the point, Sakyamuni recounted air came out from ears holes while he was stopping in-breath and out-breath. Further, he stated that he even stopped the breathing from ears hole.

[Johnny Dangerous]

If there's short or long breath, is there average medium breath..?

Only if you choose, but if you go more by the sutta you just note whether the breath is short or long and don't overthink it. You aren't analyzing it, just observing.

It's also about developing somatic awareness ("breathing in sensitive to the whole body"), to use a modern term, you aren't sitting there thinking about your breath, rather you are directly experiencing it, nakedly and precisely as it is.

[Jokingfish]

When one discerns breath, is it both breath forms, inhalation and exhalation, or just one?

[DharmaJunior]

Both are a nuisance IMO, so once out have to come in and once in have to go back to and fro. One without other is none at all. So my metaphor of breath is like a dog who wants to go out so it can come back in again. That said I'd go for a non binary approach so there's probably more colour than I than discern. (Great questions btw)

[Jokingfish]

When one discerns breath, is it both breath forms, inhalation and exhalation, or just one?

Haha, funny me, sutta was quoted.. Way too heedless i am..

Thank you all.

Edit: ok, more questions.. So according to anapanasati sutta, one is supposed to always label when breathing, well i guess there are more techniques like counting?

So you sit, (im gonna call it this way-), label the duration of the breath and try to feel its sensation as most as possible (first step?), this way one should practice this meditation?