nirvana mathematically not possible

Casual conversation between friends. Anything goes (almost).
BillSocrate
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2023 4:20 am

nirvana mathematically not possible

Post by BillSocrate »

I'm asking this question in seriousness and sincerely. Please do not troll. I believe in thevara buddhism - danna/kama create wealth/luck and practicing detachments finally set one escape the rebirth coz you don't cling on anything any more. Meditate a bit - understand the theory more. BUT, I came up with the question that no one could answer so far.

We have been here for infinite life - coz we haven't escape the rebirth yet if I do, I won't be typing here and you won't be reading here. No new lifes are created - they just transformed from dog to human, human to dog so on. If sentient being (life) can really escape rebirth (nirvana) then since we have infinite time, eventually every living being would reach nirvana and no one exists in the Universe.

Here's how you picture this clearly, there are sand grains in the beach. If I tell you human generations pick 1 grain at a time, eventually all sands are gone. I can gurantee that coz we have infinite time. The theory about nirvana also state that a life/soul is gone forever.
User avatar
PadmaVonSamba
Posts: 9443
Joined: Sat May 14, 2011 1:41 am

Re: nirvana mathematically not possible

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

BillSocrate wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 8:25 pm I'm asking this question in seriousness and sincerely.
I think I understand what you are saying.
But I don’t understand what is mathematically impossible about it.
EMPTIFUL.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
Archie2009
Posts: 1586
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2020 10:39 pm

Re: nirvana mathematically not possible

Post by Archie2009 »

PadmaVonSamba wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:26 pm
BillSocrate wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 8:25 pm I'm asking this question in seriousness and sincerely.
I think I understand what you are saying.
But I don’t understand what is mathematically impossible about it.
Like ⊥ or ↯ ? ;) Tell me more, tell me more ...
dharmafootsteps
Posts: 475
Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2017 8:57 am

Re: nirvana mathematically not possible

Post by dharmafootsteps »

It’s been mentioned previously here that there are always latent sentient beings to populate new universes. Hence no end to sentient beings even given infinite time.

https://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.p ... gs#p650885
Kai lord
Posts: 1166
Joined: Sun May 15, 2022 2:38 am

Re: nirvana mathematically not possible

Post by Kai lord »

BillSocrate wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 8:25 pm I'm asking this question in seriousness and sincerely. Please do not troll. I believe in thevara buddhism - danna/kama create wealth/luck and practicing detachments finally set one escape the rebirth coz you don't cling on anything any more. Meditate a bit - understand the theory more. BUT, I came up with the question that no one could answer so far.

We have been here for infinite life - coz we haven't escape the rebirth yet if I do, I won't be typing here and you won't be reading here. No new lifes are created - they just transformed from dog to human, human to dog so on. If sentient being (life) can really escape rebirth (nirvana) then since we have infinite time, eventually every living being would reach nirvana and no one exists in the Universe.

Here's how you picture this clearly, there are sand grains in the beach. If I tell you human generations pick 1 grain at a time, eventually all sands are gone. I can gurantee that coz we have infinite time. The theory about nirvana also state that a life/soul is gone forever.
There are infinite universes/worlds in Buddhism........ especially so for Mahayana. Theravada tends to focus on one great trichiliocosm in their teachings.

Maybe thats how people get confused.
Life is like a game, either you win or lose!
Life is like a fight, either you live or die!
Life is like a show, either you laugh or cry!
Life is like a dream, either you know or not!!!
User avatar
Astus
Former staff member
Posts: 8883
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:22 pm
Location: Budapest

Re: nirvana mathematically not possible

Post by Astus »

'Just as the end of a seed is seen
Though it has no beginning,
When the causes are incomplete
Birth, too, will not occur.'

(Aryadeva's Four Hundred Stanzas on the Middle Way, 8.200)

'Conjecture about [the origin, etc., of] the world is an unconjecturable that is not to be conjectured about, that would bring madness & vexation to anyone who conjectured about it.'
(Acinteyyasutta)

'Householder, there are many different views that arise in the world. For example: the cosmos is eternal, or not eternal, or finite, or infinite; the soul and the body are the same thing, or they are different things; after death, a Realized One exists, or doesn’t exist, or both exists and doesn’t exist, or neither exists nor doesn’t exist. And also the sixty-two misconceptions spoken of in the Prime Net Discourse.
These views come to be when identity view exists. When identity view does not exist they do not come to be.'

(Dutiyaisidattasutta)

'it’s not the Realized One’s concern whether the whole world is saved by this, or half, or a third. But the Realized One knows that whoever is saved from the world—whether in the past, the future, or the present—all have given up the five hindrances, corruptions of the heart that weaken wisdom. They have firmly established their mind in the four kinds of mindfulness meditation. And they have truly developed the seven awakening factors. That’s how they’re saved from the world, in the past, future, or present.'
(Uttiyasutta)
1 Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.


1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"
User avatar
Aemilius
Posts: 4604
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2010 11:44 am

Re: nirvana mathematically not possible

Post by Aemilius »

BillSocrate wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 8:25 pm I'm asking this question in seriousness and sincerely. Please do not troll. I believe in thevara buddhism - danna/kama create wealth/luck and practicing detachments finally set one escape the rebirth coz you don't cling on anything any more. Meditate a bit - understand the theory more. BUT, I came up with the question that no one could answer so far.

We have been here for infinite life - coz we haven't escape the rebirth yet if I do, I won't be typing here and you won't be reading here. No new lifes are created - they just transformed from dog to human, human to dog so on. If sentient being (life) can really escape rebirth (nirvana) then since we have infinite time, eventually every living being would reach nirvana and no one exists in the Universe.

Here's how you picture this clearly, there are sand grains in the beach. If I tell you human generations pick 1 grain at a time, eventually all sands are gone. I can gurantee that coz we have infinite time. The theory about nirvana also state that a life/soul is gone forever.
Perfection of Wisdom sutras and Madhyamaka see it differently; there are no real beings or real entities, there is no real production or real arising, thus there cannot be real cessation. Nagarjuna says it well in his Shunyata Saptati or Seventy Stanzas on Emptiness. http://www.buddhism.org/Sutras/2/Sutras5.htm

Image
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)
haha
Posts: 563
Joined: Thu May 23, 2013 3:30 pm

Re: nirvana mathematically not possible

Post by haha »

One of the characteristic of Mahayana is to continue benefiting others whether they are in samsara or they passed into Nirvana. Mahayana passing into Nirvana is not entering into peace and cessation. If that is so, then Sakyamuni would enter into that type of Nirvana when he met previous numerous Buddhas.

Somewhere (i.e. Mahayana sutra) it is said in paradoxical language that all sentient being will not pass into Nirvana (for consoling the Mara); because all sentient beings will pass into Nirvana.

The sand grains from the beach are not infinite whereas sattva-dhatu is infinite.
User avatar
DNS
Site Admin
Posts: 5268
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 4:23 pm
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada, Estados Unidos de América
Contact:

Re: nirvana mathematically not possible

Post by DNS »

I'm sure you've heard of the Infinite monkey theorem.
The infinite monkey theorem states that a monkey hitting keys at random on a typewriter keyboard for an infinite amount of time will almost surely type any given text, such as the complete works of William Shakespeare. In fact, the monkey would almost surely type every possible finite text an infinite number of times. However, the probability that monkeys filling the entire observable universe would type a single complete work, such as Shakespeare's Hamlet, is so tiny that the chance of it occurring during a period of time hundreds of thousands of orders of magnitude longer than the age of the universe is extremely low (but technically not zero). The theorem can be generalized to state that any sequence of events which has a non-zero probability of happening will almost certainly eventually occur, given enough time.
The above is just for randomly pounding at the keyboard and producing Hamlet or other such work. Nirvana is nothing like that. It takes cognition to understand and practice the Buddha-Dharma.

An analogy I like to use is imagine that attaining full enlightenment and nirvana is like attaining a chess elo rating of 3000 (don't take this literally, this is just an analogy). (For reference, Magnus Carlsen's elo is about 2800.) There could be a planet of millions of monkeys (and no humans) and even if they are there an infinite time playing chess, they will never attain an elo of 3000. They might accidentally play a game that looks like 3000 level, but won't really be since it was just random moves. It won't be the cognitive level of a 3000 chess rating game.
Miorita
Posts: 1069
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2022 11:37 pm
Location: US

Re: nirvana mathematically not possible

Post by Miorita »

What is the question?
master of puppets
Posts: 1649
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2020 9:52 pm

Re: nirvana mathematically not possible

Post by master of puppets »

Could nirvana be the true Buddha nature??
User avatar
Aemilius
Posts: 4604
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2010 11:44 am

Re: nirvana mathematically not possible

Post by Aemilius »

Miorita wrote: Thu Jan 12, 2023 6:23 pm What is the question?
Here is the question, it is in the last paragraph:
Bill Socrate: "I'm asking this question in seriousness and sincerely. Please do not troll. I believe in thevara buddhism - danna/kama create wealth/luck and practicing detachments finally set one escape the rebirth coz you don't cling on anything any more. Meditate a bit - understand the theory more. BUT, I came up with the question that no one could answer so far.

We have been here for infinite life - coz we haven't escape the rebirth yet if I do, I won't be typing here and you won't be reading here. No new lifes are created - they just transformed from dog to human, human to dog so on. If sentient being (life) can really escape rebirth (nirvana) then since we have infinite time, eventually every living being would reach nirvana and no one exists in the Universe.

Here's how you picture this clearly, there are sand grains in the beach. If I tell you human generations pick 1 grain at a time, eventually all sands are gone. I can gurantee that coz we have infinite time. The theory about nirvana also state that a life/soul is gone forever."
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)
PeterC
Posts: 5192
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 12:38 pm

Re: nirvana mathematically not possible

Post by PeterC »

Aemilius wrote: Fri Jan 13, 2023 9:34 am
Miorita wrote: Thu Jan 12, 2023 6:23 pm What is the question?
Here is the question, it is in the last paragraph:
Bill Socrate: "I'm asking this question in seriousness and sincerely. Please do not troll. I believe in thevara buddhism - danna/kama create wealth/luck and practicing detachments finally set one escape the rebirth coz you don't cling on anything any more. Meditate a bit - understand the theory more. BUT, I came up with the question that no one could answer so far.

We have been here for infinite life - coz we haven't escape the rebirth yet if I do, I won't be typing here and you won't be reading here. No new lifes are created - they just transformed from dog to human, human to dog so on. If sentient being (life) can really escape rebirth (nirvana) then since we have infinite time, eventually every living being would reach nirvana and no one exists in the Universe.

Here's how you picture this clearly, there are sand grains in the beach. If I tell you human generations pick 1 grain at a time, eventually all sands are gone. I can gurantee that coz we have infinite time. The theory about nirvana also state that a life/soul is gone forever."
Still not seeing the question?

Also - depends on (A) whether you posit the possibility of new sentient beings arising (latent or whatever), and (B) exactly what you mean mathematically when you say "infinite"
User avatar
PadmaVonSamba
Posts: 9443
Joined: Sat May 14, 2011 1:41 am

Re: nirvana mathematically not possible

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

PeterC wrote: Fri Jan 13, 2023 9:49 am
Aemilius wrote: Fri Jan 13, 2023 9:34 am
Miorita wrote: Thu Jan 12, 2023 6:23 pm What is the question?
Here is the question, it is in the last paragraph:
Bill Socrate: "I'm asking this question in seriousness and sincerely. Please do not troll. I believe in thevara buddhism - danna/kama create wealth/luck and practicing detachments finally set one escape the rebirth coz you don't cling on anything any more. Meditate a bit - understand the theory more. BUT, I came up with the question that no one could answer so far.

We have been here for infinite life - coz we haven't escape the rebirth yet if I do, I won't be typing here and you won't be reading here. No new lifes are created - they just transformed from dog to human, human to dog so on. If sentient being (life) can really escape rebirth (nirvana) then since we have infinite time, eventually every living being would reach nirvana and no one exists in the Universe.

Here's how you picture this clearly, there are sand grains in the beach. If I tell you human generations pick 1 grain at a time, eventually all sands are gone. I can gurantee that coz we have infinite time. The theory about nirvana also state that a life/soul is gone forever."
Still not seeing the question?

Also - depends on (A) whether you posit the possibility of new sentient beings arising (latent or whatever), and (B) exactly what you mean mathematically when you say "infinite"
A question is a sentence with a question mark at the end of it. All I see is some kind of assessment of things. I can’t tell what is being asked.
EMPTIFUL.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
User avatar
DNS
Site Admin
Posts: 5268
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 4:23 pm
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada, Estados Unidos de América
Contact:

Re: nirvana mathematically not possible

Post by DNS »

The OP is a question that has been going around the internet on buddhist forums for several years now. The question is basically something like:

"If we have all lived infinite lives, we should have all been enlightened by now, since with infinite lives, there are infinite possibilities, therefore, why haven't we all been already enlightened and in nirvana by now?"

And I believe I have given one possible answer, in that enlightenment is not just some random outcome, like the monkeys pounding on a keyboard for an infinite amount of time and then eventually producing an exact copy of Hamlet. Enlightenment is much different to that and requires cognition. Monkeys playing chess for an infinite amount of time will not produce a chess game worthy of being called a Magnus Carlsen level game. A randomly produced game would just be that, not the cognitive level of a Carlsen chess game.
User avatar
Virgo
Posts: 4844
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 3:47 am
Location: Uni-verse

Re: nirvana mathematically not possible

Post by Virgo »

See if this one works:

Image

:namaste: Virgo
User avatar
Virgo
Posts: 4844
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 3:47 am
Location: Uni-verse

Re: nirvana mathematically not possible

Post by Virgo »

BillSocrate wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 8:25 pm We have been here for infinite life - coz we haven't escape the rebirth yet if I do, I won't be typing here and you won't be reading here. No new lifes are created - they just transformed from dog to human, human to dog so on. If sentient being (life) can really escape rebirth (nirvana) then since we have infinite time, eventually every living being would reach nirvana and no one exists in the Universe.
There are infinite sentient beings. Infinity - 1 is always still infinity (of the same type of infinity).

Virgo
User avatar
Queequeg
Former staff member
Posts: 14462
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:24 pm

Re: nirvana mathematically not possible

Post by Queequeg »

Consider this:

WILL ALL BEINGS ATTAIN LIBERATION?

Once a wandering ascetic named Uttiya approached the Blessed One. After an exchange of courteous and polite words, he sat down at one side and asked:

"How is it, revered Gotama: is the world eternal — is only this true and everything else nonsensical?"

"This, Uttiya, I have not declared: that the world is eternal; and that only this is true and everything else is nonsensical."

"How then, revered Gotama: is the world non-eternal — is only this true and everything else nonsensical?"

"That, too, Uttiya, I have not declared: that the world is non-eternal; and that only this is true and everything else nonsensical."

"How is it, revered Gotama: is the world infinite or finite? Are the life principle and the body the same or different? Does the Tathaagata exist after death or does he not exist after death? Does he exist as well as not exist or neither exist nor not exist after death? Is (any one of these statements) the only one that is true and everything else nonsensical?"

"All that, Uttiya, I have not declared: that the world is finite... that the Tathaagata neither exists nor does not exist after death; (nor did I declare) that (any one of these statements) is the only true one and that everything else is nonsensical."

"But how is it, revered Gotama? To all my questions you have replied that you have not so declared. What, after all, does the revered Gotama actually declare?"

"Having directly known it, Uttiya, I have taught the Dhamma to my disciples for the purification of beings, for getting beyond sorrow and lamentation, for the ending of pain and grief, for attaining to the method (of liberation) and for realising Nibbaana."

"But if the revered Gotama, out of his direct knowledge, teaches Dhamma to his disciples for the purification of beings, for getting beyond sorrow and lamentation, for the ending of pain and grief, for attaining to the method (of liberation) and for realising Nibbaana, will the whole world thereby escape (from sa.msaara), or half of it or a third part of it?"

At these words, the Blessed One kept silent.

Then this thought occurred to the venerable Aananda: "May Uttiya the wanderer not conceive a harmful opinion, by thinking, 'When the recluse Gotama was asked by me an all-important question, he foundered and did not reply. Probably he could not.' But such a view would bring harm and suffering to Uttiya for a long time."

Hence the venerable Aananda turned to Uttiya, saying:

"I shall give you a simile, friend Uttiya, for with the help of a simile intelligent people may come to understand the meaning of what was said.

"Suppose, friend Uttiya, there is a king's border town, with strong ramparts and turrets on sound foundations, and with a single gate. There is also a gate-keeper, intelligent, experienced and prudent, who keeps out people unknown and admits only those who are known. That gatekeeper walks along the path that girdles the town all round, and while doing so he does not notice in the ramparts any hole or opening, not even one big enough for a cat to slip through. Though he does not have the knowledge of how many creatures enter the town or leave it, yet he does know this: 'Any larger creatures that enter or leave this town can do so only by this gate.'

"Similarly, friend Uttiya, the Tathaagata is not concerned (with your question) whether the entire world will escape (from samsaara) by that (teaching of his) or half of it or a third part. But the Tathaagata is aware that whosoever has escaped, does now escape and will escape from the world, all these will do so by removing the five hindrances that defile the mind and weaken understanding, by firmly establishing their minds in the four foundations of mindfulness, and by cultivating the seven factors of enlightenment in their true nature. That same question, friend Uttiya, which you had asked the Blessed One before, you have asked him again in another way."

— AN 10.95
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/aut ... el238.html
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
BillSocrate
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2023 4:20 am

Re: nirvana mathematically not possible

Post by BillSocrate »

BillSocrate wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 8:25 pm I'm asking this question in seriousness and sincerely. Please do not troll. I believe in thevara buddhism - danna/kama create wealth/luck and practicing detachments finally set one escape the rebirth coz you don't cling on anything any more. Meditate a bit - understand the theory more. BUT, I came up with the question that no one could answer so far.

We have been here for infinite life - coz we haven't escape the rebirth yet if I do, I won't be typing here and you won't be reading here. No new lifes are created - they just transformed from dog to human, human to dog so on. If sentient being (life) can really escape rebirth (nirvana) then since we have infinite time, eventually every living being would reach nirvana and no one exists in the Universe.

Here's how you picture this clearly, there are sand grains in the beach. If I tell you human generations pick 1 grain at a time, eventually all sands are gone. I can gurantee that coz we have infinite time. The theory about nirvana also state that a life/soul is gone forever.
Let me try differently.

According to Thevara Bud:
1. Nirvana - you reach, you are absolutely gone. No more life, no rebirth. Discussion close. Pls don't bring in Tibetan, they believe in rebirth forever.

My interpretation of Thevara:
1. Sentinent beings are finite - you just transforming - cat to pig to human to pig so on. If these beings are growing then we will bust the Universe.

There are so many teachings that some guy was evil killed his father but after he served the hell (can't define it, may be a life of hell, animal, being poor, with dease so on), with some good karma, he met Buddha and he reached Nirvana

Given that, I believe some day, everybody will reach Nirvana and there will be an empty Universe.

Questions:
1. Given infinite time, shouldn't all of us reach Nirvana and the Universe is empty by now?
2. Are we going to be an empty Universe in the future since we have infinite time?
User avatar
Kim O'Hara
Former staff member
Posts: 7065
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:09 am
Location: North Queensland, Australia

Re: nirvana mathematically not possible

Post by Kim O'Hara »

BillSocrate wrote: Fri Jan 13, 2023 9:17 pm
BillSocrate wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 8:25 pm I'm asking this question in seriousness and sincerely. Please do not troll. I believe in thevara buddhism - danna/kama create wealth/luck and practicing detachments finally set one escape the rebirth coz you don't cling on anything any more. Meditate a bit - understand the theory more. BUT, I came up with the question that no one could answer so far.

We have been here for infinite life - coz we haven't escape the rebirth yet if I do, I won't be typing here and you won't be reading here. No new lifes are created - they just transformed from dog to human, human to dog so on. If sentient being (life) can really escape rebirth (nirvana) then since we have infinite time, eventually every living being would reach nirvana and no one exists in the Universe.

Here's how you picture this clearly, there are sand grains in the beach. If I tell you human generations pick 1 grain at a time, eventually all sands are gone. I can gurantee that coz we have infinite time. The theory about nirvana also state that a life/soul is gone forever.
Let me try differently.

According to Thevara Bud:
1. Nirvana - you reach, you are absolutely gone. No more life, no rebirth. Discussion close. Pls don't bring in Tibetan, they believe in rebirth forever.

My interpretation of Thevara:
1. Sentinent beings are finite - you just transforming - cat to pig to human to pig so on. If these beings are growing then we will bust the Universe.

There are so many teachings that some guy was evil killed his father but after he served the hell (can't define it, may be a life of hell, animal, being poor, with dease so on), with some good karma, he met Buddha and he reached Nirvana

Given that, I believe some day, everybody will reach Nirvana and there will be an empty Universe.

Questions:
1. Given infinite time, shouldn't all of us reach Nirvana and the Universe is empty by now?
2. Are we going to be an empty Universe in the future since we have infinite time?
The answer to question 1 must be 'No', since we are here to ask the question. That points to an error in your assumptions.
The answer to question 2 must be 'Yes' if your assumptions are correct.

But your assumptions are a strange mixture of science and religion. Some of them are incompatible with others, and most of them are unprovable.
And it is logically impossible to draw a valid conclusion from invalid assumptions.

If we stay within Theravada beliefs but allow some basic mathematics, your suggestion is a good one. If sentient beings do eventually reach nirvana and the universe has already existed for an infinite number of kalpas, we might expect that the universe will eventually be empty.
But once again, we must say that it hasn't happened yet because we're here to talk about it.
And the reason that it hasn't happened yet, and will never happen, is mathematical. If the universe is infinite in space and time, as we are told, so are sentient beings. And if an infinite number of sentient beings have to pop out of the universe (into nirvana), it will take them an infinite amount of time to do so. That means the universe will never be empty.
Infinity is so big that our normal ways of thinking just don't work.

:namaste:
Kim
Post Reply

Return to “Lounge”