Seeking a guru

[dorje.yignyen]

Hi everyone,

I am writing this post because I am hoping to find a qualified teacher. My hope is to understand more about myself through the compassionate mirror of a more formally consecrated mind to finish the last steps between my current state of being and the freedom from suffering that is promised through the Buddha's teaching.

But before you rush into offering advice and teachings, please also know that I am not unpracticed as a being. I have lived with major depression since I was about 7. Long story short: I fell behind on popular culture trends, and became ostracized from my peers at school. At that same time, a best friend moved away and my parents weren't able to catch my social decline with the emotional support I needed at the time. While it doesn't seem like much compared to many other real problems that children face throughout the world both then and now, and bearing in mind that things have improved much for me and with me and my parents, the impact of my mom's response to my suffering at the time had a lasting impact on my mental development.

Despite these and many more and less intense ebbs and flows of good times and bad times, I have done my level best to develop and maintain compassion for living beings in an applied manner. This was enabled by the development of the same inner awareness skills needed to overcome my depression symptoms. I have been living under this kind of regimen for the past twelve years, though the only in-person contact I've had with the formal Sangha involved one lama at my undergraduate college and one former monk in Philadelphia. I have also done my own study of core texts and concepts of Buddhism from many perspectives. I acknowledge my interpretations of the texts are my own, and may not always align with formal interpretations of the texts. I'm aware enough that I see all schools of Buddhism as having value to getting to parinirvana, and I know enough of non-Buddhist traditions to know they have value too for getting one's mental state and perspective oriented for sustainable living as human beings (though any follower of any tradition can regularly fail to honestly live up to the aspirations and standards set by their respective religious/spiritual traditions).

Abiding questions that I have continue to mainly center on what role(s) I will play in this world, where, and for whom in this particular life time. I know the answers to those types of questions typically unfold over time. I'm just uncertain as to why the uncertainty is still a bother for me, and how it is I'm still experiencing ups and downs as ups and downs.

Please feel free to either comment or send a DM if you think you may be able to provide new insights and perspectives I have not already considered or explored. Thank you, and have a great life.

[dorje.yignyen]

PS If there is no forthcoming answer to my request for a guru or a fresh set of compassionate and wise eyes on my situation from the digital Noble Sangha, I would like to ask a different set of questions:

What is it about my initial question that keeps each and all silent? Is it off-putting? Bad taste? Confusing?

Am I not worth the effort to teach? Do you doubt your own abilities to help me move beyond dhukka for the remainder of whatever eternity could be? Or is the neurology of depression and the anxieties it feeds on and is fed by going to be my wheel of sharp weapons to bear for this body's entire lifetime?

I'm asking for my own sake, so that I may be better able to quickly and easily achieve and maintain a positive state of compassionate, peaceful awareness in life. My honest intention was, has been, and continues to be to help every being alive and yet to be born. I don't always know how that precisely is achieved or how everything I've touched will shake out in conclusive ways, though I've had to make many decisions of consequence that affected both I and a host of other people around me. Some of them are/were very dear friends and relations. Some are only acquaintances or neutral characters in my current lifetime. Some even have been painful enemies. Through each and all of them, I have done my honest best to avoid doing harm and prayed I did the best I could for outcomes where we all could get what we wanted and needed in those moments. I've done this under conditions of mental and physical duress. I've done this under conditions of ease and tranquility. I think my most recent succession of short- and long-term storms will need a guru incarnate to help clear, so that I can find the state of peace that will enable me to finish what I've started in this lifetime, and play my small part in concluding the nonsensical cycles of suffering in birth, death, and rebirth everybody seems either blind to or enamored with.

Lama kheyn no?

If no guru is present for me in this lifetime, then what am I?
Please, and thank you.

[Kim O'Hara]

PS If there is no forthcoming answer to my request for a guru or a fresh set of compassionate and wise eyes on my situation from the digital Noble Sangha, I would like to ask a different set of questions:

What is it about my initial question that keeps each and all silent?

It is quite likely that each of us has different reasons for not replying. In my case, I simply can't help you find a teacher because I don't know, or even know of, one who might suit you.
That's probably the most common reason, especially since you haven't identified your location or preferred tradition.
Telling people (approximately) where you are would be a very simple and useful action.

Is it off-putting? Bad taste? Confusing?

No, no, no.

Am I not worth the effort to teach?

Everyone with a sincere desire to learn is worth the effort to teach. Never doubt that.

Do you doubt your own abilities to help me move beyond dhukka for the remainder of whatever eternity could be?

Well, yes - as I said above - although that's an over-dramatic way of putting it.

Or is the neurology of depression and the anxieties it feeds on and is fed by going to be my wheel of sharp weapons to bear for this body's entire lifetime?

I hope not.

May you be free of suffering...


Kim

P.S. You might also need to allow folks a lot more time to log in and read your posts before thinking that no-one is ever going to answer.

[Ayu]

I personally believe, it's difficult to recommend a teacher to an anonymous person on a forum.
It's deeply in my bones that Buddhism cannot be proselytized.

The usual procedure is that you look for buddhists in your area or you can look for online events, attend a lecture and than you can check out with your own estimation how you resonate with that group.

You can browse the internet or ask here, if the teacher is controversial. There are only a few dodgy groups/teachers and as a beginner it is good to verify if the teacher you found is beneficial.

I could recommend my own teacher to you. He teaches in Gelug tradition and travels through Germany and a few European countries. But that makes no sense for you so far.
Buddhist traditions and moreover teachers are extremely diverse.

[dorje.yignyen]

Thank you Kim O'Hara and Ayu for your thoughtful replies. I'm glad to hear that my questions are not themselves problematic; just incomplete and in need of polishing. I apologize for the effects of the dramatic language, but I was intending to evoke a response from the Sangha. This isn't the first time I've posed the original questions to members of the general Sangha (elsewhere). The reply's questions are new ones, and the speed of my reply was born out of impatience after having been waiting for answers to the original questions for about 10 years as of now.

To address both of your points:

I am most familiar with a partial array of Tibetan schools of Buddhism (Gelug, Kagyu, and Nyingma), and would probably do well with a teacher from any of those schools. I currently live near Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, USA, and there is only a New Kadampa Tradition group nearby (which I know is not a great school for positive times). The closest authentic Buddhist traditions to me are in Philadelphia, which is about a two hour drive or a two and a half hour train and bus ride (not easily accessible by transit without a car from the train station; I checked). I was hoping that through these posts, people may be willing to build towards making recommendations or introductions. I'm willing to do what is needed to build that understanding and trust. I am in IRL as I present myself online.

Thank you both for replying and all for reading. Have a wonderful week ahead!

[Johnny Dangerous]

There are lots of good online programs. Since you already have some familiarity with Kagyu and Nyingma you might check out Tergar: www.tergar.org

[Ayu]

Yes, and you can check out our subforum Dharma Events. Some are teaching online.
E. g. Garchen Rinpoche gives empowerments even online. https://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.p ... 50#p644350
Or:
The Dalai Lama is still holding lectures online despite his old age. Here's the section on his website: https://www.dalailama.com/live


Another possibility is to get in contact with those communities that you have to travel to two and a half hours. You can make that distance within one day, there and back, and plan those trips for once or twice a year.
Anyhow, it is good to create the own gompa in the own house or room. The Dharma can be studied in any calm place.

[PadmaVonSamba]

I currently live near Harrisburg, Pennsylvania,

Many Lamas at:
URGYEN CHHYODZONG GUMBA (gompa)
BHUTANESE BUDDHIST ORGANIZATION
301 S Sporting Hill Dr. Mechanicsburg, PA 17050
Phone No: (717) 412-7521

[dorje.yignyen]

Thank you Johnny Dangerous, PadmaVonSamba, and Ayu again.

Since you already have some familiarity with Kagyu and Nyingma you might check out Tergar: www.tergar.org

I actually am familiar with Tergar, and have found their work to be of very good quality. I guess I'm looking for something more personal.

Yes, and you can check out our subforum Dharma Events. Some are teaching online.

I will check out this subforum as soon as I'm finished with this reply.

Garchen Rinpoche gives empowerments even online.

I will definitely try contacting them.

Many Lamas at:
URGYEN CHHYODZONG GUMBA (gompa)
BHUTANESE BUDDHIST ORGANIZATION
301 S Sporting Hill Dr. Mechanicsburg, PA 17050
Phone No: (717) 412-7521

I searched the group and looked at the address on Google Maps. The latest image is from 2021, and it shows a Baptist church is there now. Furthermore, the web address listed on the group's Facebook page appears to no longer work, and the organization seems more geared to a local Bhutanese community based on the fact that their Facebook videos are all in what I'm guessing is Dzongkha. I will try to call the number tomorrow though.

[PadmaVonSamba]

I searched the group and looked at the address on Google Maps. The latest image is from 2021, and it shows a Baptist church is there now. Furthermore, the web address listed on the group's Facebook page appears to no longer work, and the organization seems more geared to a local Bhutanese community based on the fact that their Facebook videos are all in what I'm guessing is Dzongkha. I will try to call the number tomorrow though.

That building had been a Korean Methodist church that I thought maybe they acquired, although it may now be a Baptist Church.

The Bhutanese refugee community in America mainly speaks Nepali (part of the reason why they are refugees) rather than Dzongkha (although I’m sure many speak both). Where I live in central Ohio, we have the largest Bhutanese community outside of Bhutan (nearly 30,000 refugees). But most speak English, and if you are looking for a teacher, you might very well find one who would like to have an American student.

Many foreign monks I’ve met say they really like to have western students because we are truly interested in study and meditation and various practices, and don’t just show up now and then wanting blessings for stuff!

You might also ask at a Dojo (Bhutanese refugees are really into karate) called Humbo Dojo at 2229 Paxton Church Rd in Harrisburg. At least, if you introduce yourself as a Vajrayana student and just say you would like to meet with a lama from that community, someone will probably be able to connect you, or give you a number to call or something like that.

Good luck.

[dorje.yignyen]

Hello everyone,

So, a little follow-up: The dojo never got back to me, nor was I able to locate the Bhutanese community that lives around South-Central PA. It looks like I will have to continue on as I've done without having a formal teacher to assess my present state. Thank you to everyone who replied to this post and tried to help.

Moving on, moving on, moving on. To what end, for what purpose, and with what methods?

From my perspective: The joke is there is no final end and no purpose beyond what we choose to personally make (which is likely more directly dependent on our present and cumulative neurology than is really comfortable).

But the methods...

The ones that are honestly used.

Those are what both steer and propel us each and all through this void of Samsara. Please be aware of what methods you use, no matter what end or intention you may have. Because methods that are not based in achieving healthful outcomes for everyone, and are not based in an honest intent to help others do better will not serve any desired end or intention. All empires crumble, even if it's kept in a specific family line, and the individual is only as powerful as the society that maintains and supports them.

Thank you if you stayed with me through this brief moment of catharsis. Have a good evening. And

[PadmaVonSamba]

nor was I able to locate the Bhutanese community that lives around South-Central PA.

Bhutanese Buddhist Organization
Greater Harrisburg PA
mail: bbo_2016@yahoo
cell Phone: 804-972-6307/770-617-2473
office phone: 717-412-7521

They had the inaugural opening ceremony of their new temple on 231 south Sporting Hill rd on May 22 of last year. So, they might still be there.

Anyway, you might try again.
If it seems challenging, just remember that 60 years ago you would have had to trek up a mountain in the Himalayas.

Maybe when you are able to speak to someone, don’t give them your whole life story. Just say that you have been practicing Buddhism and you’d like to meet and talk with one of the lamas.

Good luck (again)

[dorje.yignyen]

Anyway, you might try again.

I will try again. I am not familiar with Bhutanese customs and sensibilities regarding persistence in the pursuit of a guru.

Thank you again.

[PadmaVonSamba]

I will try again. I am not familiar with Bhutanese customs and sensibilities regarding persistence in the pursuit of a guru.

I don’t think that’s something you need to be too worried about. It’s not like you are tracking a wild animal. But it might be helpful to let go of expectations, and don’t create a lot in your mind about it. Just stay loose and flexible with it.

Maybe you will meet some lamas who speak English. Maybe you can be friends with some of them, and Maybe you will make a connection with one and Maybe that lama will end up being your guru. And, maybe not. But you will have made some new friends.

Many years ago I went to a small gathering advertised on a poster that said “Learn Tibetan Buddhism”. A lama originally from Sikkim had been invited to America by his one American student. They had a genuine Vajrayana teacher-student connection. I wasn’t particularly looking for a root guru, but I was interested in meeting this lama.
We ended up becoming good friends. He gave me a few pointers on practice, gave us a sadhana to work on, and I helped him with speaking English As it turns out, he was actually a very high lama, but who kept a pretty low profile. A very humble person. As I think back on it now, I could have asked him about being my main guru. He’s back in Sikkim, and we stay in touch but I’m sad that we may never meet again, as international travel is difficult for each of us.
Anyway, you never know what might happen!

[Adamantine]

Are you willing to travel?

[justsit]

Like you, when I became interested in dharma I was not fortunate enough to live near any type of sangha. The nearest one was 1 1/2 hrs. away, but I was highly motivated to learn so I went as often as I could, which was about once a month. But that was enough to establish a karmic connection, and after several years subsequently met my teacher (at a different group). At that point, "right effort" meant traveling long distances to receive teachings; yes, it was a hardship, and I couldn't go as often as I would have liked, but to me it was absolutely worth it.

Obstacles to progress will very often arise due to our karma, and we have to decide how important learning genuine dharma is in our lives. I would suggest just starting somewhere and see what happens; the first place you go may not be a good fit, but it may open doors to somewhere that's better for you. Maybe you can only get to Philly once in a while, might still be worth the trip.

[dorje.yignyen]

Thank you to everyone who has left a comment since the last posting. Unfortunately, I am in the middle of my doctoral dissertation, so funds, energy, and time are in limited supply. I am not able to travel at this time, so I am limited to those who are local to me or with an online presence.

I will also admit: I am still skeptical about the ordained Sangha's ability to do anything for me I haven't already been doing for myself, or couldn't already do for myself. I've heard too many stories of less-than Enlightened behavior from people who wear monastic robes and bear high titles to be convinced of the infallibility of any being who is also wearing a human body like I am.

I am also honestly concerned about starting again on a path to start new relationships because I've seen too many of them come, go, become stale, or become hostile. All I'd like is the permanent, abiding exit from sensory experiences and attachment to this and any point in any possible place; what the Hindus would call moksha, and what some of us would call parinirvana. I don't want to either hurt people with my inevitable departure, or be hurt myself by other people when it's time for their inevitable departure. All of this happens while I am perceiving/experiencing the universe as a kind of karmic minefield, where actions I made and am no longer consciously aware of can blow up in my experience of life without warning, if they don't also sneak back in to my awareness later on in the form of an additional (metaphorical) mess I need to clean up for myself and those around me.

And yes, I know those moments are excellent opportunities to practice compassion and love for self and others. I know that I can, and very likely will, transform these and future negative, hurtful states into something that hopefully proves positively helpful for everybody. I know coping mechanisms, and I am using them. I guess I'm just tired of needing to use them as frequently as I've had to to just get through my real world, physical life.

I guess I will simply have to remain patient. What good is an internally carried light if no one is able to perceive it?

[Adamantine]

Thank you to everyone who has left a comment since the last posting. Unfortunately, I am in the middle of my doctoral dissertation, so funds, energy, and time are in limited supply. I am not able to travel at this time, so I am limited to those who are local to me or with an online presence.

I will also admit: I am still skeptical about the ordained Sangha's ability to do anything for me I haven't already been doing for myself, or couldn't already do for myself. I've heard too many stories of less-than Enlightened behavior from people who wear monastic robes and bear high titles to be convinced of the infallibility of any being who is also wearing a human body like I am.

I am also honestly concerned about starting again on a path to start new relationships because I've seen too many of them come, go, become stale, or become hostile. All I'd like is the permanent, abiding exit from sensory experiences and attachment to this and any point in any possible place; what the Hindus would call moksha, and what some of us would call parinirvana. I don't want to either hurt people with my inevitable departure, or be hurt myself by other people when it's time for their inevitable departure. All of this happens while I am perceiving/experiencing the universe as a kind of karmic minefield, where actions I made and am no longer consciously aware of can blow up in my experience of life without warning, if they don't also sneak back in to my awareness later on in the form of an additional (metaphorical) mess I need to clean up for myself and those around me.

And yes, I know those moments are excellent opportunities to practice compassion and love for self and others. I know that I can, and very likely will, transform these and future negative, hurtful states into something that hopefully proves positively helpful for everybody. I know coping mechanisms, and I am using them. I guess I'm just tired of needing to use them as frequently as I've had to to just get through my real world, physical life.

I guess I will simply have to remain patient. What good is an internally carried light if no one is able to perceive it?

Samsara is like a hospital, you don’t go to a hospital expecting to find healthy people. Fortunately though, a small percentage of the people are doctors… in this metaphor, Buddhas, Bodhisattvas or those who are getting close through diligent training (like internists or nurse practitioners). Of course, sometimes a mentally unbalanced patient might dress up in a doctor’s uniform and fool some people. That sounds like the kind of people you refer to here wearing the dharma robes.. that can happen sure, robes don’t mean the person is s Buddha. In some cases, it can mean they are just more seriously deluded. So that’s why in all the traditional texts due diligence is highly emphasized as necessary when analyzing the qualities of a potential guru before accepting them as your guide. It can’t be emphasized enough. Just like you would do your research to find the very best and most qualified doctor to treat a potentially terminal illness. You wouldn’t want to stop seeking the right doctor just because you found out there were some unscrupulous doctors who had committed malpractice in the world! That would be silly, right?

[PadmaVonSamba]

I am also honestly concerned about starting again on a path to start new relationships because I've seen too many of them come, go, become stale, or become hostile.

I think there may be something a little bit off about your whole approach.

It kind of seems like you have a lot of expectations, trying to make sure things are set up in a certain way, worrying that you’ll be disappointed, and so on. Plus, you are in the midst of a dissertation? You’ve got a lot on your plate.

Teachers aren’t just lumps of clay waiting to fulfill the expectations of their students. It’s not like you are interviewing a job applicant.

Maybe just let things blow around and see what happens. Go and meet teachers just thinking it might be nice to make a new friend. Don’t worry about all that master-pupil stuff. That will happen if the causes for it are there. Keep it natural, not artificial.

[PadmaVonSamba]

What good is an internally carried light if no one is able to perceive it?

People see it through your actions.
Needing people to see it is just self-grasping.