Skillful means examples

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jet.urgyen
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Skillful means examples

Post by jet.urgyen »

Hi, have you used skillful means to do some good? how was it? can you share your experience?

i think this might be useful, there are so many situations one can learn from.
true dharma is inexpressible.

The bodhisattva nourishes from bodhicitta, through whatever method the Buddha has given him. Oh joy.
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Aemilius
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Re: Skillful means examples

Post by Aemilius »

Traditionally Skillful means or Upaya includes the Four Sangrahavastus and the Four Pratisamvids, which are:

The Four means of unification of Sangha or the Four Sangrahavastus:
1. Dana, giving
2. Priya-vadita, loving speech
3. Artha-carya or artha-kriya, putting into practice
4. Saman-arthata, the pursuit by oneself of that aim to which one incites others

The Four analytical or perfect knowledges (catuḥ-pratisaṃvid):
1. Perfect knowledge of meaning (artha-pratisamvid)
2. Perfect knowledge of Dharma (dharma-pratisamvid)
3. Perfect knowledge of language (nirukti-pratisamvid)
4. Perfect knowledge of courageous eloquence (pratibhāna-pratisamvid))

These are from Har Dayal's Bodhisattva Doctrine in Buddhist Sanskrit Literature, where he gives the places in which they occur in canonical literature.

I hope we are all practicing them daily.
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)
jet.urgyen
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Re: Skillful means examples

Post by jet.urgyen »

Aemilius wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 2:18 pm Traditionally Skillful means or Upaya includes the Four Sangrahavastus and the Four Pratisamvids, which are:

The Four means of unification of Sangha or the Four Sangrahavastus:
1. Dana, giving
2. Priya-vadita, loving speech
3. Artha-carya or artha-kriya, putting into practice
4. Saman-arthata, the pursuit by oneself of that aim to which one incites others

The Four analytical or perfect knowledges (catuḥ-pratisaṃvid):
1. Perfect knowledge of meaning (artha-pratisamvid)
2. Perfect knowledge of Dharma (dharma-pratisamvid)
3. Perfect knowledge of language (nirukti-pratisamvid)
4. Perfect knowledge of courageous eloquence (pratibhāna-pratisamvid))

These are from Har Dayal's Bodhisattva Doctrine in Buddhist Sanskrit Literature, where he gives the places in which they occur in canonical literature.

I hope we are all practicing them daily.
Cool, I'm interested.
true dharma is inexpressible.

The bodhisattva nourishes from bodhicitta, through whatever method the Buddha has given him. Oh joy.
reiun
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Re: Skillful means examples

Post by reiun »

Sanskrit Upaya means remedy or means. Per Tricycle, skillful means (upaya-kausalya) refers to an enlightened person’s ability to tailor their message to a specific audience. The concept emerged in Buddhist texts such as the Lotus Sutra, written hundreds of years after Buddhism began, but it also characterizes the historical Buddha’s style of dialogue and teaching. Teachers today may use skillful means to deliver the right teaching to a student in the most effective manner.

An example would be a Rinzai teacher in dokusan posing the perfect question to a student working a koan, at the exact right moment, to elicit the earned response.
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Aemilius
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Re: Skillful means examples

Post by Aemilius »

Both Sangrahavastu and Pratisamvid occur in the Pali suttas and commentaries. The corresponding terms are Sangaha-vatthu and Patisambhida. (Source: Har Dayal's Bodhisattva Doctrine in.. and Nyanatiloka's Buddhist Dictionary, Manual of Buddhist Terms and doctrines)

The written sutras were preceded by oral teachings of Dharma for hundreds of years. Thus it is likely, or at least possible, that the term Upaya comes from the teachings of Shakyamuni.
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)
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Aemilius
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Re: Skillful means examples

Post by Aemilius »

Actually Upaya kaushalya is millions of years old teaching, because Gautama Shakyamuni got teachings and whole sutras from the previous Buddhas (of this kalpa and of kalpas previous to the present one). Academics just do not understand the reality of Buddhas, or the reality of Bodhisattvas, Pratyekabuddhas and Arhats.
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)
reiun
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Re: Skillful means examples

Post by reiun »

Aemilius wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 2:56 am Actually Upaya kaushalya is millions of years old teaching, because Gautama Shakyamuni got teachings and whole sutras from the previous Buddhas (of this kalpa and of kalpas previous to the present one). Academics just do not understand the reality of Buddhas, or the reality of Bodhisattvas, Pratyekabuddhas and Arhats.
" . . it (Upaya kaushalya) also characterizes the historical Buddha’s style of dialogue and teaching."
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Aemilius
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Re: Skillful means examples

Post by Aemilius »

That is true. Peter Della Santina tells two examples from the Pali Tipitaka, that exemplify strong uses of Skillful means or Upaya kaushalya:

1. Khema
" King Bimbisara tried multiple times to get his wife to visit the Buddha but Khema always refused. Khema had a strong attachment to her looks and knew the Buddha found fault with physical beauty. Knowing Khema loved beautiful things, King Bimbisara hired poets to recite poems in front of Khema describing the beauty of the monastery the Buddha was staying at in order to entice her to visit. Hearing about the beauty of the monastery, Khema became curious and went to visit the monastery. In order to ensure that Khema encounter the Buddha, King Bimbisara ordered the guards accompanying her to guide the Queen to the Buddha.

As Khema toured the monastery and approached the main hall the Buddha was staying in, the Buddha read her mind and used psychic powers to conjure up an image of a woman even more beautiful than her to appear fanning him. Stunned by the beautiful woman, Khema thought she was mistaken about the Buddha disparaging beauty. As Khema fixated on the image of the beautiful woman, the Buddha aged the image before her eyes, from youth, middle age, old age and then death. Seeing the image of the beautiful woman age and die, Khema realized she too must share the same fate. The Buddha then preached to her about the impermanence of beauty until she attained stream-entry, a level of enlightenment. The Buddha then continued to preach to her about the problems of attachment to worldly desires until she attained arahantship. Following the attainment she joined the Buddha's monastic community and became a bhikkhuni."

2. Nanda
"Buddha, after partaking of his meal, silently handed his bowl to Nanda, rose, and exited. Thinking that the Buddha would take his bowl back, Nanda followed him until they reached the monastery of Nigrodha, where Buddha was staying.

When they arrived at the vihara, the Buddha ask Nanda to sweep the grounds of the monastery clean from fallen leaves. Every time Nanda had finished his task, more leaves appeared. Finally Buddha said to Nanda that he is going to ordain him as monk. Although Nanda was about to be wed to his beloved, the beautiful Janapada Kalyāni, he was ordained as a bhikshu.

However, Nanda Shakya enjoyed no spiritual happiness. His thoughts were constantly directed towards Janapada Kalyāni and his heart pined for her.

Learning of this, the Buddha took Nanda on a journey to Heaven of Trāyastriṃśa. On the way Nanda saw a she-monkey that had lost her ears, nose, and tail in a fire, clinging to a charred stump. When they reached the heaven abode, Nanda saw beautiful celestial nymphs and the Buddha asked Nanda: "Which do you consider more beautiful? Those nymphs or Janapada Kalyāni?"

Nanda replied: "Venerable Sir, Janapada Kalyāni looks like the scalded she-monkey, compared to those nymphs."

The Buddha said: "Nanda, can you see that what you thought to be exceedingly beautiful now pales in comparison to greater beauty?"

Upon hearing this, Nanda practiced diligently with the object of winning the celestial nymphs. However, when the other monks learned of Nanda's wish they ridiculed him and he eventually saw his motive as a base, and renouncing desire, attained Arhatship."

More detailed story in Nanda Sutta: About Nanda https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)
jet.urgyen
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Re: Skillful means examples

Post by jet.urgyen »

Aemilius wrote: Mon Jan 09, 2023 9:43 am That is true. Peter Della Santina tells two examples from the Pali Tipitaka, that exemplify strong uses of Skillful means or Upaya kaushalya:

1. Khema
" King Bimbisara tried multiple times to get his wife to visit the Buddha but Khema always refused. Khema had a strong attachment to her looks and knew the Buddha found fault with physical beauty. Knowing Khema loved beautiful things, King Bimbisara hired poets to recite poems in front of Khema describing the beauty of the monastery the Buddha was staying at in order to entice her to visit. Hearing about the beauty of the monastery, Khema became curious and went to visit the monastery. In order to ensure that Khema encounter the Buddha, King Bimbisara ordered the guards accompanying her to guide the Queen to the Buddha.

As Khema toured the monastery and approached the main hall the Buddha was staying in, the Buddha read her mind and used psychic powers to conjure up an image of a woman even more beautiful than her to appear fanning him. Stunned by the beautiful woman, Khema thought she was mistaken about the Buddha disparaging beauty. As Khema fixated on the image of the beautiful woman, the Buddha aged the image before her eyes, from youth, middle age, old age and then death. Seeing the image of the beautiful woman age and die, Khema realized she too must share the same fate. The Buddha then preached to her about the impermanence of beauty until she attained stream-entry, a level of enlightenment. The Buddha then continued to preach to her about the problems of attachment to worldly desires until she attained arahantship. Following the attainment she joined the Buddha's monastic community and became a bhikkhuni."

2. Nanda
"Buddha, after partaking of his meal, silently handed his bowl to Nanda, rose, and exited. Thinking that the Buddha would take his bowl back, Nanda followed him until they reached the monastery of Nigrodha, where Buddha was staying.

When they arrived at the vihara, the Buddha ask Nanda to sweep the grounds of the monastery clean from fallen leaves. Every time Nanda had finished his task, more leaves appeared. Finally Buddha said to Nanda that he is going to ordain him as monk. Although Nanda was about to be wed to his beloved, the beautiful Janapada Kalyāni, he was ordained as a bhikshu.

However, Nanda Shakya enjoyed no spiritual happiness. His thoughts were constantly directed towards Janapada Kalyāni and his heart pined for her.

Learning of this, the Buddha took Nanda on a journey to Heaven of Trāyastriṃśa. On the way Nanda saw a she-monkey that had lost her ears, nose, and tail in a fire, clinging to a charred stump. When they reached the heaven abode, Nanda saw beautiful celestial nymphs and the Buddha asked Nanda: "Which do you consider more beautiful? Those nymphs or Janapada Kalyāni?"

Nanda replied: "Venerable Sir, Janapada Kalyāni looks like the scalded she-monkey, compared to those nymphs."

The Buddha said: "Nanda, can you see that what you thought to be exceedingly beautiful now pales in comparison to greater beauty?"

Upon hearing this, Nanda practiced diligently with the object of winning the celestial nymphs. However, when the other monks learned of Nanda's wish they ridiculed him and he eventually saw his motive as a base, and renouncing desire, attained Arhatship."

More detailed story in Nanda Sutta: About Nanda https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
i enjoy this.
true dharma is inexpressible.

The bodhisattva nourishes from bodhicitta, through whatever method the Buddha has given him. Oh joy.
akuppa
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Re: Skillful means examples

Post by akuppa »

Aemilius wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 2:18 pm Traditionally Skillful means or Upaya includes the Four Sangrahavastus and the Four Pratisamvids, which are:

The Four means of unification of Sangha or the Four Sangrahavastus:
1. Dana, giving
2. Priya-vadita, loving speech
3. Artha-carya or artha-kriya, putting into practice
4. Saman-arthata, the pursuit by oneself of that aim to which one incites others
I believe these are the same as what Dogen talked about in the essay Bodaisatta Shishobo.

You can read a translation here: https://www.sanshinji.org/shishobo.html

And you can listen to some talks on the essay here: https://zenstudiespodcast.com/shishobo- ... s-embrace/
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Re: Skillful means examples

Post by Natan »

jet.urgyen wrote: Thu Jan 05, 2023 1:42 am Hi, have you used skillful means to do some good? how was it? can you share your experience?

i think this might be useful, there are so many situations one can learn from.
Made offerings to Nagas during California drought... Activities sadhanas... Things like that ..
jet.urgyen
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Re: Skillful means examples

Post by jet.urgyen »

Natan wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:12 pm
jet.urgyen wrote: Thu Jan 05, 2023 1:42 am Hi, have you used skillful means to do some good? how was it? can you share your experience?

i think this might be useful, there are so many situations one can learn from.
Made offerings to Nagas during California drought... Activities sadhanas... Things like that ..
I find this great and in accordance to a noble purpose. Can you elaborate how did you recognized the opportunity to do good?
true dharma is inexpressible.

The bodhisattva nourishes from bodhicitta, through whatever method the Buddha has given him. Oh joy.
muni
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Re: Skillful means examples

Post by muni »

These for increasing merit, for increasing positive energy inside us ( to experience) and so spontaneous spread harmony. Compassionate loving body speech and mind.

That is why the energy of a Bodhisattva is so Amazing.

Do not focus on faults of others. If we can help, we can, but at least do not harm. ( HH Dalai Lama)

Enlightened compassionate activity never judge (grasp), but help always out of the variety of suffering dreams.

*OM Mani Padme Hung*
Giovanni
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Re: Skillful means examples

Post by Giovanni »

Skillful means are tools to bring us to the arising of prajna..insight and wisdom. They are not the thing. They are the thing that can lead to the thing. For all of us skilful means are desirable tools, meditation methods, acts of kindness and compassion etc. For most of us they are necessary at various points. But they are not the object, simply the means.
Kai lord
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Re: Skillful means examples

Post by Kai lord »

Skillful means is actually the seventh perfection after wisdom the sixth. It will be perfected on the seventh bhumi.

Which makes sense since one must perfect their insight before being able to demonstrate them indirectly to beings whom are not ready.
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Re: Skillful means examples

Post by Natan »

jet.urgyen wrote: Wed Jan 11, 2023 2:17 am
Natan wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:12 pm
jet.urgyen wrote: Thu Jan 05, 2023 1:42 am Hi, have you used skillful means to do some good? how was it? can you share your experience?

i think this might be useful, there are so many situations one can learn from.
Made offerings to Nagas during California drought... Activities sadhanas... Things like that ..
I find this great and in accordance to a noble purpose. Can you elaborate how did you recognized the opportunity to do good?
There was a drought and I knew how to make offerings to Nagas.
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Re: Skillful means examples

Post by Ayu »

jet.urgyen wrote: Thu Jan 05, 2023 1:42 am Hi, have you used skillful means to do some good? how was it? can you share your experience?

i think this might be useful, there are so many situations one can learn from.
(I am writing this as a common member, not as mod.)

All the time since you have started this topic, I had doubts on the benefit of it.

Your idea to find inspiration and a better understanding of skillful means is nice. But in my personal opinion, people who answer your question literally won't do themselves a favor.

In my experience, if I succeeded in any spiritutal task and I start to tell a great story about it, I immediately shrunk the good energy.
Maybe now I sound silly, but whenever I was too talkative, I made this experience every time.
Talking takes energy, I really believe.

Therefore I better try to keep the precious experiences in private. One is endangered to boast about it and therefore lose that kind of reliance. :shrug:
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Re: Skillful means examples

Post by Natan »

Ayu wrote: Wed Jan 11, 2023 4:03 pm
jet.urgyen wrote: Thu Jan 05, 2023 1:42 am Hi, have you used skillful means to do some good? how was it? can you share your experience?

i think this might be useful, there are so many situations one can learn from.
(I am writing this as a common member, not as mod.)

All the time since you have started this topic, I had doubts on the benefit of it.

Your idea to find inspiration and a better understanding of skillful means is nice. But in my personal opinion, people who answer your question literally won't do themselves a favor.

In my experience, if I succeeded in any spiritutal task and I start to tell a great story about it, I immediately shrunk the good energy.
Maybe now I sound silly, but whenever I was too talkative, I made this experience every time.
Talking takes energy, I really believe.

Therefore I better try to keep the precious experiences in private. One is endangered to boast about it and therefore lose that kind of reliance. :shrug:
What you're saying here holds true for this entire forum.
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Re: Skillful means examples

Post by muni »

I think to understand Ayu somehow. And examples of skillful means we cannot actually express, it is not to talk about.
But there are very inspirations as nectar by the masters, which are more then useful to share, to inspire. Because these days, wisdom is what gets only attention.
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Re: Skillful means examples

Post by Ayu »

muni wrote: Wed Jan 11, 2023 4:43 pm I think to understand Ayu somehow. And examples of skillful means we cannot actually express, it is not to talk about.
But there are very inspirations as nectar by the masters, which are more then useful to share, to inspire. Because these days, wisdom is what gets only attention.
:thumbsup:
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