Kratom & The 5th Precept?

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Jack H
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Kratom & The 5th Precept?

Post by Jack H »

Does the use of Kratom violate the 5th Precept of avoiding intoxicants?

I recently discovered it and I have to say I am a Kratom fan.
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Ayu
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Re: Kratom & The 5th Precept?

Post by Ayu »

Kratom is an intoxicant that creates even addiction. So, yes, it concerns the fifth precept. Better chose either precepts or Kratom.
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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: Kratom & The 5th Precept?

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

Getting high for the purpose of getting high technically violates the fifth precept, it’s pretty simple.

Using substances here and there casually is a pretty mild violation of the precept for a layperson, as in drinking a beer, etc.

Kratom (despite being quasi legal) is a more serious substance and IME not really one that many people maintain a healthy relationship with, so even outside a Buddhist context, I’d be careful with it.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared

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Jack H
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Re: Kratom & The 5th Precept?

Post by Jack H »

Thank you both for your replies. I will also heed the warnings. I was under the impression it was more natural stimulant like coffee.
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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: Kratom & The 5th Precept?

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

Jack H wrote: Fri Dec 30, 2022 9:51 pm Thank you both for your replies. I will also heed the warnings. I was under the impression it was more natural stimulant like coffee.
No, it’s a lot more significant than that. Some opioid users have used it for withdrawal management, it probably has some legit uses and I hope it gets researched further. It has both stimulant and depressant effects.

As a recreational drug it definitely carries more risk than caffeine IME, but then all the research on it is new. Anecdotally I can tell you that as a n addiction counselor it was a popular thing to abuse to evade drug tests early on, and that people seemed to develop issues with it as a sort of “replacement addiction”…

It may be that in the future it’s a good alternative to suboxone or methadone for people doing those treatments, but IMO it’s a bad idea to mess with it, unregulated as it is.

Here’s the Mayo Clinic page on it, which IMO is pretty reasonable:
https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-life ... t-20402171

Honestly, purely based on safety I wouldn’t take any of the crap that gets sold as “supplements” the way Kratom does, they are totally unregulated and you could be getting literally anything.

Even if someone just wants to get high, there are safer ways.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared

-Khunu Lama
tingdzin
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Re: Kratom & The 5th Precept?

Post by tingdzin »

In Thailand, taxi drivers chew the raw leaf to stay awake over long hauls. They seem to regard it as just equivalent to coffee; on the other hand, it was not openly legal here until recently. On the other other hand, it may be no worse than the chemically-laced coffee or Red-Bull type drinks they would otherwise use.
Soma999
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Re: Kratom & The 5th Precept?

Post by Soma999 »

Using « magical » substance implies knowledge of its effects, how to use it in an efficient way, and the quality of intention, and sometime guidance. And also the risks and how to prevent them.

Does it break the fifth precept ? That depends how you understand it.

Frankly, it is more a matter of common sense than a matter of « respecting a vow ».

If you really want to develop and maintain mindfulness, you will know what you can and cannot take. Some substance might hinder your progress, some others are ok.
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