What happened to me?

Help required with personal difficulties.
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dontaskme
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What happened to me?

Post by dontaskme »

About 10 years ago, I got into Rinzai style Zen on my own. I lived in a small, isolated community at the time and nowhere near a Zen establishment to do formal practice. My only access was books, audiobooks and Zen forums.

I had an assembly job and so it was easy to practice while at work. I was very intense about practicing and was putting in a lot of hours each day. Around the 6 month mark, I had a very brief, but deep enlightened experience as it turned out. It lasted about 10s. I went on a Zen forum (can't find the original post) and asked about it thinking it was makyo. But according to one of the teachers on the site, it was "Definitely not makyo!!! Keep practicing."

But soon after that experience, I became extremely depressed. I had problems with panick attacks at the time and they became worse. It became really difficult to practice because of the depression. I started medications and got therapy, but it didn't help. Eventually I gave up practicing. That was 10 years ago and I still suffer from depression, anxiety, substance abuse and recently stress induced psychosis. I was actually in the hospital last night from alcohol poisoning.

So, what happened here? I recently learned about Borderline Personality Disorder and I fit the criteria for it. Did this experience somehow agitate it? Make it worse? Is that even a thing?

Note: I can talk about the specifics of the experience in private, if that helps sort things out.
Meggo
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Re: What happened to me?

Post by Meggo »

Many mahayana people here and also many theravada folks elsewhere won't like this advice, but what you are describing reminds me of a classical theravada vipassana meditation map found in the Visuddhimagga (The path of purification), by Buddhaghosa. A modern take on this can be found in the free book "Mastering the Core teachings of the Buddha", by Daniel Ingram. Just download the pdf and look at the chapter "Maps". What you experienced could be the progress from the A&P stage to the dukkha nanas (dissolution -> fear-> misery -> digust -> Desire for deliverance -> Reobservation), which will feel roughly like an "enlightenment experience" followed by a long bipolar depression type of phase (borderline is often mistaken for bipolar). I think reading through this could be useful to you. Good luck!
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Konchog Thogme Jampa
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Re: What happened to me?

Post by Konchog Thogme Jampa »

dontaskme wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 2:19 pm About 10 years ago, I got into Rinzai style Zen on my own. I lived in a small, isolated community at the time and nowhere near a Zen establishment to do formal practice. My only access was books, audiobooks and Zen forums.

I had an assembly job and so it was easy to practice while at work. I was very intense about practicing and was putting in a lot of hours each day. Around the 6 month mark, I had a very brief, but deep enlightened experience as it turned out. It lasted about 10s. I went on a Zen forum (can't find the original post) and asked about it thinking it was makyo. But according to one of the teachers on the site, it was "Definitely not makyo!!! Keep practicing."

But soon after that experience, I became extremely depressed. I had problems with panick attacks at the time and they became worse. It became really difficult to practice because of the depression. I started medications and got therapy, but it didn't help. Eventually I gave up practicing. That was 10 years ago and I still suffer from depression, anxiety, substance abuse and recently stress induced psychosis. I was actually in the hospital last night from alcohol poisoning.

So, what happened here? I recently learned about Borderline Personality Disorder and I fit the criteria for it. Did this experience somehow agitate it? Make it worse? Is that even a thing?

Note: I can talk about the specifics of the experience in private, if that helps sort things out.
Pray to Tara for help to get you back on the path and steady things I'm sorry you've undergone so much difficulty
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KeithA
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Re: What happened to me?

Post by KeithA »

dontaskme wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 2:19 pm About 10 years ago, I got into Rinzai style Zen on my own. I lived in a small, isolated community at the time and nowhere near a Zen establishment to do formal practice. My only access was books, audiobooks and Zen forums.

I had an assembly job and so it was easy to practice while at work. I was very intense about practicing and was putting in a lot of hours each day. Around the 6 month mark, I had a very brief, but deep enlightened experience as it turned out. It lasted about 10s. I went on a Zen forum (can't find the original post) and asked about it thinking it was makyo. But according to one of the teachers on the site, it was "Definitely not makyo!!! Keep practicing."

But soon after that experience, I became extremely depressed. I had problems with panick attacks at the time and they became worse. It became really difficult to practice because of the depression. I started medications and got therapy, but it didn't help. Eventually I gave up practicing. That was 10 years ago and I still suffer from depression, anxiety, substance abuse and recently stress induced psychosis. I was actually in the hospital last night from alcohol poisoning.

So, what happened here? I recently learned about Borderline Personality Disorder and I fit the criteria for it. Did this experience somehow agitate it? Make it worse? Is that even a thing?

Note: I can talk about the specifics of the experience in private, if that helps sort things out.
That's the pitfall of trying to use forums as a substitute for a teacher. No one should have told you that ("definitely not makyo'"), unless they know you personally.

My primary advice is to pay attention to your health, and get yourself on solid footing. Practice requires a bit of grounding.

Second, in the last ten years, many online opportunities have popped up to come in contact with good teachers. Here is one (not Rinzai), there are many others.

This situation would absolutely require working with an actual teacher, not trying to work this through here. This place is generally hostile towards Zen, and even more so when people start talking about experiences that occur during practice. Rinzai, in particular, can't be practiced without a teacher.

Honestly, there are much better methods to go about getting the answers necessary, rather than posting here. Good luck and quick healing to you!

:consoling:

_/|\_
Keith
When walking, standing, sitting, lying down, speaking,
being silent, moving, being still.
At all times, in all places, without interruption - what is this?
One mind is infinite kalpas.

New Haven Zen Center
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dontaskme
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Re: What happened to me?

Post by dontaskme »

Meggo wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 6:01 pm Many mahayana people here and also many theravada folks elsewhere won't like this advice, but what you are describing reminds me of a classical theravada vipassana meditation map found in the Visuddhimagga (The path of purification), by Buddhaghosa. A modern take on this can be found in the free book "Mastering the Core teachings of the Buddha", by Daniel Ingram. Just download the pdf and look at the chapter "Maps". What you experienced could be the progress from the A&P stage to the dukkha nanas (dissolution -> fear-> misery -> digust -> Desire for deliverance -> Reobservation), which will feel roughly like an "enlightenment experience" followed by a long bipolar depression type of phase (borderline is often mistaken for bipolar). I think reading through this could be useful to you. Good luck!
Downloaded the book and quickly went over some of the chapters. I sounds eerily similar to what had happened to me. And as someone else posted, I really did need a teacher to help me through this an explain just what my experience meant. I'm kind of a loner/drifter, so having an actual teacher wasn't really on my radar. I never really made the connection between my experience and my mental health issues, as I experienced a lot of trauma as a child and just thought my issues were a result of it.


I'm going to try and find a teacher online and see if I can "unpack" this. Thank you for the book recommendation
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dontaskme
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Re: What happened to me?

Post by dontaskme »

KeithA wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 6:58 pm
dontaskme wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 2:19 pm About 10 years ago, I got into Rinzai style Zen on my own. I lived in a small, isolated community at the time and nowhere near a Zen establishment to do formal practice. My only access was books, audiobooks and Zen forums.

I had an assembly job and so it was easy to practice while at work. I was very intense about practicing and was putting in a lot of hours each day. Around the 6 month mark, I had a very brief, but deep enlightened experience as it turned out. It lasted about 10s. I went on a Zen forum (can't find the original post) and asked about it thinking it was makyo. But according to one of the teachers on the site, it was "Definitely not makyo!!! Keep practicing."

But soon after that experience, I became extremely depressed. I had problems with panick attacks at the time and they became worse. It became really difficult to practice because of the depression. I started medications and got therapy, but it didn't help. Eventually I gave up practicing. That was 10 years ago and I still suffer from depression, anxiety, substance abuse and recently stress induced psychosis. I was actually in the hospital last night from alcohol poisoning.

So, what happened here? I recently learned about Borderline Personality Disorder and I fit the criteria for it. Did this experience somehow agitate it? Make it worse? Is that even a thing?

Note: I can talk about the specifics of the experience in private, if that helps sort things out.
That's the pitfall of trying to use forums as a substitute for a teacher. No one should have told you that ("definitely not makyo'"), unless they know you personally.

My primary advice is to pay attention to your health, and get yourself on solid footing. Practice requires a bit of grounding.

Second, in the last ten years, many online opportunities have popped up to come in contact with good teachers. Here is one (not Rinzai), there are many others.

This situation would absolutely require working with an actual teacher, not trying to work this through here. This place is generally hostile towards Zen, and even more so when people start talking about experiences that occur during practice. Rinzai, in particular, can't be practiced without a teacher.

Honestly, there are much better methods to go about getting the answers necessary, rather than posting here. Good luck and quick healing to you!

:consoling:

_/|\_
Keith
I honestly don't remember what forum it was. I tried to find it. But I went into the experience in great detail and that's what was said.

Hostile towards Zen? Why is that? And yeah, it comes off as very egotistical to say "I had an enlightened experience", so I get that people would be put off by it.

I'm going to see if I can find a teacher to talk to online, because I think you're right, I do need someone to help me "unpack" this. I'm broke and homeless, so it might be difficult to do so. There is no Zen or Buddhism community where I live.
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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: What happened to me?

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

dontaskme wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 2:19 pm About 10 years ago, I got into Rinzai style Zen on my own. I lived in a small, isolated community at the time and nowhere near a Zen establishment to do formal practice. My only access was books, audiobooks and Zen forums.

I had an assembly job and so it was easy to practice while at work. I was very intense about practicing and was putting in a lot of hours each day. Around the 6 month mark, I had a very brief, but deep enlightened experience as it turned out. It lasted about 10s. I went on a Zen forum (can't find the original post) and asked about it thinking it was makyo. But according to one of the teachers on the site, it was "Definitely not makyo!!! Keep practicing."

But soon after that experience, I became extremely depressed. I had problems with panick attacks at the time and they became worse. It became really difficult to practice because of the depression. I started medications and got therapy, but it didn't help. Eventually I gave up practicing. That was 10 years ago and I still suffer from depression, anxiety, substance abuse and recently stress induced psychosis. I was actually in the hospital last night from alcohol poisoning.

So, what happened here? I recently learned about Borderline Personality Disorder and I fit the criteria for it. Did this experience somehow agitate it? Make it worse? Is that even a thing?

Note: I can talk about the specifics of the experience in private, if that helps sort things out.
It sounds like your exploration of Rinzai ended up coinciding with the onset of long term mental health issues. From your description it seems unlikely that a 10 second experience ended up causing years worth of this kind of issue.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared

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dontaskme
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Re: What happened to me?

Post by dontaskme »

Johnny Dangerous wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 7:39 pm
dontaskme wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 2:19 pm About 10 years ago, I got into Rinzai style Zen on my own. I lived in a small, isolated community at the time and nowhere near a Zen establishment to do formal practice. My only access was books, audiobooks and Zen forums.

I had an assembly job and so it was easy to practice while at work. I was very intense about practicing and was putting in a lot of hours each day. Around the 6 month mark, I had a very brief, but deep enlightened experience as it turned out. It lasted about 10s. I went on a Zen forum (can't find the original post) and asked about it thinking it was makyo. But according to one of the teachers on the site, it was "Definitely not makyo!!! Keep practicing."

But soon after that experience, I became extremely depressed. I had problems with panick attacks at the time and they became worse. It became really difficult to practice because of the depression. I started medications and got therapy, but it didn't help. Eventually I gave up practicing. That was 10 years ago and I still suffer from depression, anxiety, substance abuse and recently stress induced psychosis. I was actually in the hospital last night from alcohol poisoning.

So, what happened here? I recently learned about Borderline Personality Disorder and I fit the criteria for it. Did this experience somehow agitate it? Make it worse? Is that even a thing?

Note: I can talk about the specifics of the experience in private, if that helps sort things out.
It sounds like your exploration of Rinzai ended up coinciding with the onset of long term mental health issues. From your description it seems unlikely that a 10 second experience ended up causing years worth of this kind of issue.
You very well could be right about that. I experienced a lot of trauma as a child. I was also in a very small isolated community at the time. I'm not saying for sure that my experience precipitated anything, just wondering if there could be a connection.
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Re: What happened to me?

Post by Natan »

dontaskme wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 2:19 pm About 10 years ago, I got into Rinzai style Zen on my own. I lived in a small, isolated community at the time and nowhere near a Zen establishment to do formal practice. My only access was books, audiobooks and Zen forums.

I had an assembly job and so it was easy to practice while at work. I was very intense about practicing and was putting in a lot of hours each day. Around the 6 month mark, I had a very brief, but deep enlightened experience as it turned out. It lasted about 10s. I went on a Zen forum (can't find the original post) and asked about it thinking it was makyo. But according to one of the teachers on the site, it was "Definitely not makyo!!! Keep practicing."

But soon after that experience, I became extremely depressed. I had problems with panick attacks at the time and they became worse. It became really difficult to practice because of the depression. I started medications and got therapy, but it didn't help. Eventually I gave up practicing. That was 10 years ago and I still suffer from depression, anxiety, substance abuse and recently stress induced psychosis. I was actually in the hospital last night from alcohol poisoning.

So, what happened here? I recently learned about Borderline Personality Disorder and I fit the criteria for it. Did this experience somehow agitate it? Make it worse? Is that even a thing?

Note: I can talk about the specifics of the experience in private, if that helps sort things out.
My approach to this is if professionals can help, take advantage of it if you will feel better.

I know a guy who knows a guy that's into this Daniel Ingraham bollocks. This is a Mahayana and Vajrayana forum and we have zero respect for these self enlightened charlatans.

Teachers and lineages are everything here.

What I am reading here is you got too intense with your routine and you burned out. Then you probably felt like a failure and beat yourself up unnecessarily. The glorious extra superior Mahayana practice is light and easy. It's a relief not a stupid detour into bullshit spheres of horrible experiences in samsara and nirvana. Bodhicitta is not meditation. It's better even NOT to meditate and instead contemplate the meaning of the aspiration prayers, the meaning of Prajnaparamita, and develop faith and confidence in the Buddha's teaching. It comes to you by surprise one day when your intuition had enough time to process it all. The teacher is the way to avoid spinning out. Probably the denial of an achievement or special experience was right, because temporary samadhis are not important ultimately. If you were wowed you were cowed and haven't understood the simple truth of emptiness.

Everyone needs to keep in mind the Heart Sutra and take it seriously. There is no ignorance or the elimination of ignorance. Bodhisattvas have no obtainments or fear. Suffering in the mental equivalent of an optical illusion. You practice Mahayana by letting go of anything, because that capacity itself us Buddhahood.

The metric is stability. You can be rock solid anytime by going with the flow. Mahayana is caring about beings. Imagine your doctor comes to treat you and enters the Dark Crevice of Self Defeating Bullshit or whatever Dr. Ingraham imagines is true. That's not a Dr. I would trust. Professionals need to be cool. Have your wits about you. Quick on your feet and all of that. Buddhahood is in all that so then it's a simple truth to be accepted not a superhuman samadhi.

This is liberation. If you don't feel liberated you calm down and let go. Study a bit. Talk to teachers over tea. Chill out. No big deal.
Last edited by Natan on Sun Nov 27, 2022 8:17 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: What happened to me?

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

dontaskme wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 7:43 pm
Johnny Dangerous wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 7:39 pm
dontaskme wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 2:19 pm About 10 years ago, I got into Rinzai style Zen on my own. I lived in a small, isolated community at the time and nowhere near a Zen establishment to do formal practice. My only access was books, audiobooks and Zen forums.

I had an assembly job and so it was easy to practice while at work. I was very intense about practicing and was putting in a lot of hours each day. Around the 6 month mark, I had a very brief, but deep enlightened experience as it turned out. It lasted about 10s. I went on a Zen forum (can't find the original post) and asked about it thinking it was makyo. But according to one of the teachers on the site, it was "Definitely not makyo!!! Keep practicing."

But soon after that experience, I became extremely depressed. I had problems with panick attacks at the time and they became worse. It became really difficult to practice because of the depression. I started medications and got therapy, but it didn't help. Eventually I gave up practicing. That was 10 years ago and I still suffer from depression, anxiety, substance abuse and recently stress induced psychosis. I was actually in the hospital last night from alcohol poisoning.

So, what happened here? I recently learned about Borderline Personality Disorder and I fit the criteria for it. Did this experience somehow agitate it? Make it worse? Is that even a thing?

Note: I can talk about the specifics of the experience in private, if that helps sort things out.
It sounds like your exploration of Rinzai ended up coinciding with the onset of long term mental health issues. From your description it seems unlikely that a 10 second experience ended up causing years worth of this kind of issue.
You very well could be right about that. I experienced a lot of trauma as a child. I was also in a very small isolated community at the time. I'm not saying for sure that my experience precipitated anything, just wondering if there could be a connection.
Occam’s razor would say it’s unlikely.

One thing that meditation can do if it goes wrong is contribute to psychosis, but even then it’s usually a contributing factor, not an outright cause. Given what you’ve said so far it seems more likely you were seeking out something to alleviate mental/emotional pain, and it coincided with the onset of more significant stuff.

There are certainly traditional stories of practice going wrong, it just seems like here the likely answer is that the conditions for this stuff were already there.

We do have a notable Rinzai teacher on the forum, maybe if he sees the thread he’ll be willing to chime in.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared

-Khunu Lama
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KeithA
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Re: What happened to me?

Post by KeithA »

dontaskme wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 7:33 pm
KeithA wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 6:58 pm
dontaskme wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 2:19 pm About 10 years ago, I got into Rinzai style Zen on my own. I lived in a small, isolated community at the time and nowhere near a Zen establishment to do formal practice. My only access was books, audiobooks and Zen forums.

I had an assembly job and so it was easy to practice while at work. I was very intense about practicing and was putting in a lot of hours each day. Around the 6 month mark, I had a very brief, but deep enlightened experience as it turned out. It lasted about 10s. I went on a Zen forum (can't find the original post) and asked about it thinking it was makyo. But according to one of the teachers on the site, it was "Definitely not makyo!!! Keep practicing."

But soon after that experience, I became extremely depressed. I had problems with panick attacks at the time and they became worse. It became really difficult to practice because of the depression. I started medications and got therapy, but it didn't help. Eventually I gave up practicing. That was 10 years ago and I still suffer from depression, anxiety, substance abuse and recently stress induced psychosis. I was actually in the hospital last night from alcohol poisoning.

So, what happened here? I recently learned about Borderline Personality Disorder and I fit the criteria for it. Did this experience somehow agitate it? Make it worse? Is that even a thing?

Note: I can talk about the specifics of the experience in private, if that helps sort things out.
That's the pitfall of trying to use forums as a substitute for a teacher. No one should have told you that ("definitely not makyo'"), unless they know you personally.

My primary advice is to pay attention to your health, and get yourself on solid footing. Practice requires a bit of grounding.

Second, in the last ten years, many online opportunities have popped up to come in contact with good teachers. Here is one (not Rinzai), there are many others.

This situation would absolutely require working with an actual teacher, not trying to work this through here. This place is generally hostile towards Zen, and even more so when people start talking about experiences that occur during practice. Rinzai, in particular, can't be practiced without a teacher.

Honestly, there are much better methods to go about getting the answers necessary, rather than posting here. Good luck and quick healing to you!

:consoling:

_/|\_
Keith
I honestly don't remember what forum it was. I tried to find it. But I went into the experience in great detail and that's what was said.
It's weird, but there was a time I can say I might have said something stupid like that. Anyway, it's impossible to discuss the ins and outs of that stuff with strangers. Especially with just words on a screen. I have a had a few zoom one on ones with my teacher, but the real thing is much better. But, it wasn't awful either.
Hostile towards Zen? Why is that? And yeah, it comes off as very egotistical to say "I had an enlightened experience", so I get that people would be put off by it.
The hostility is just sectarianism. It's boorish, but that's what humans do. I am certainly not without my own biases. You hit it on the head though. It's just futile to try to talk about it in a forum.
I'm going to see if I can find a teacher to talk to online, because I think you're right, I do need someone to help me "unpack" this. I'm broke and homeless, so it might be difficult to do so. There is no Zen or Buddhism community where I live.
I am sorry to hear about your situation. One of our teachers likes to say "use our good karma and our bad karma to help the world". Please take good care of yourself. You, and your practice energy, are very important.

_/|\_
Keith
When walking, standing, sitting, lying down, speaking,
being silent, moving, being still.
At all times, in all places, without interruption - what is this?
One mind is infinite kalpas.

New Haven Zen Center
narhwal90
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Re: What happened to me?

Post by narhwal90 »

It might be helpful to find any functional community regardless of school. Personally I often wonder if the face-to-face or.zoom-to-zoom, if we must, is more important than the particular school.
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Re: What happened to me?

Post by Meggo »

dontaskme wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 7:26 pm
Meggo wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 6:01 pm Many mahayana people here and also many theravada folks elsewhere won't like this advice, but what you are describing reminds me of a classical theravada vipassana meditation map found in the Visuddhimagga (The path of purification), by Buddhaghosa. A modern take on this can be found in the free book "Mastering the Core teachings of the Buddha", by Daniel Ingram. Just download the pdf and look at the chapter "Maps". What you experienced could be the progress from the A&P stage to the dukkha nanas (dissolution -> fear-> misery -> digust -> Desire for deliverance -> Reobservation), which will feel roughly like an "enlightenment experience" followed by a long bipolar depression type of phase (borderline is often mistaken for bipolar). I think reading through this could be useful to you. Good luck!
Downloaded the book and quickly went over some of the chapters. I sounds eerily similar to what had happened to me. And as someone else posted, I really did need a teacher to help me through this an explain just what my experience meant. I'm kind of a loner/drifter, so having an actual teacher wasn't really on my radar. I never really made the connection between my experience and my mental health issues, as I experienced a lot of trauma as a child and just thought my issues were a result of it.


I'm going to try and find a teacher online and see if I can "unpack" this. Thank you for the book recommendation
If you have experienced a lot of trauma as a child than meditation can exacerbate suffering by bringing back stuff that has been dissociated, especially vipassana style meditation techniques can do that. Maybe additional Psychotherapy wouldn't be a bad option in your case?
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Re: What happened to me?

Post by Kim O'Hara »

Meggo wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 7:58 am ...If you have experienced a lot of trauma as a child than meditation can exacerbate suffering by bringing back stuff that has been dissociated, especially vipassana style meditation techniques can do that.
That's pretty close to what I was going to say after reading the first 2 or 3 posts in the thread.
I saw that pattern a few times in the beginners' meditation classes I attended years ago, and also in the mantra meditation classes even more years ago.
In both cases the teachers said something like, "This is old trauma bubbling up now that you have released some of the repression around it. If it gets too intense, return to the breath (mantra) until you regain your balance, and then you can return to it when you're ready."
Meggo wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 7:58 am ... Maybe additional Psychotherapy wouldn't be a bad option in your case?
It's hard to say what might help, so long after both the original trauma and the partial release of it.
Expert help is a good idea, though, whether it's a meditation teacher, a psychotherapist, or someone else.

:namaste:
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Re: What happened to me?

Post by Kim O'Hara »

narhwal90 wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 9:47 pm It might be helpful to find any functional community regardless of school. Personally I often wonder if the face-to-face or.zoom-to-zoom, if we must, is more important than the particular school.
Agreed. There are good people in every school and in all the helping professions. Find one, and you've made a good start on solving your problems.

:namaste:
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Re: What happened to me?

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

dontaskme wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 2:19 pm I had a very brief, but deep enlightened experience as it turned out. It lasted about 10s. I went on a Zen forum (can't find the original post) and asked about it thinking it was makyo. But according to one of the teachers on the site, it was "Definitely not makyo!!! Keep practicing."
So, did you keep practicing after you were given this advice?
EMPTIFUL.
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Re: What happened to me?

Post by dontaskme »

I kept practicing for another 6 months. But I was so depressed that I couldn't continue. I could barely get out of bed, put my socks on, turn a wrench etc. There was many times in the past 10 years that I wanted to resume practicing and reading up on Zen, but idk why, I just couldn't muster the motivation to do so. Again, no idea why I've resumed interest in it now.

I signed up for virtual zazen with "Brightway Zen". After a few zoom meetings, I can have a personal video call with their teacher and ask about my experience.
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KeithA
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Re: What happened to me?

Post by KeithA »

dontaskme wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 9:04 pm I kept practicing for another 6 months. But I was so depressed that I couldn't continue. I could barely get out of bed, put my socks on, turn a wrench etc. There was many times in the past 10 years that I wanted to resume practicing and reading up on Zen, but idk why, I just couldn't muster the motivation to do so. Again, no idea why I've resumed interest in it now.

I signed up for virtual zazen with "Brightway Zen". After a few zoom meetings, I can have a personal video call with their teacher and ask about my experience.
Good for you! I wish good you luck on your journey.

_/|\_
Keith
When walking, standing, sitting, lying down, speaking,
being silent, moving, being still.
At all times, in all places, without interruption - what is this?
One mind is infinite kalpas.

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Agent Smith
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Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2022 4:46 pm

Re: What happened to me?

Post by Agent Smith »

dontaskme wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 2:19 pm About 10 years ago, I got into Rinzai style Zen on my own. I lived in a small, isolated community at the time and nowhere near a Zen establishment to do formal practice. My only access was books, audiobooks and Zen forums.

I had an assembly job and so it was easy to practice while at work. I was very intense about practicing and was putting in a lot of hours each day. Around the 6 month mark, I had a very brief, but deep enlightened experience as it turned out. It lasted about 10s. I went on a Zen forum (can't find the original post) and asked about it thinking it was makyo. But according to one of the teachers on the site, it was "Definitely not makyo!!! Keep practicing."

But soon after that experience, I became extremely depressed. I had problems with panick attacks at the time and they became worse. It became really difficult to practice because of the depression. I started medications and got therapy, but it didn't help. Eventually I gave up practicing. That was 10 years ago and I still suffer from depression, anxiety, substance abuse and recently stress induced psychosis. I was actually in the hospital last night from alcohol poisoning.

So, what happened here? I recently learned about Borderline Personality Disorder and I fit the criteria for it. Did this experience somehow agitate it? Make it worse? Is that even a thing?

Note: I can talk about the specifics of the experience in private, if that helps sort things out.
Well, if you were a child, you fell and it hurt (real bad). Time to scream out your lungs mon ami! Someone's gotta/gonna hear you and :consoling:

:coffee:


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