Rtog pa - subtle cognition?
Re: Rtog pa - subtle cognition?
The Little Song of Do As You Please.
Re: Rtog pa - subtle cognition?
Thank you oldbob..
Re: Rtog pa - subtle cognition?
The Ever Present Tilaka (Thig le kun gsal) states:Jules 09 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 07, 2022 12:54 amConcepts arise due to ma rig pa.Sure they do, since they arise from there, they return there.
Mind and pristine consciousness,
are neither the same nor different.
They are phenomena that are difficult to differentiate.
The mind is the potential of pristine consciousness.
The basis of the mind is pristine consciousness.
Therefore, since mind and pristine consciousness
are both the same and different,
there is so-called liberation and nonliberation.
Longchenpa comments:
Since the radiance of vidyā in the heart center is moved by the horse of the karma vāyu, its potential arises as concepts, arising as the path of deluded samsāra because of ignorance.
Checkmate.
Re: Rtog pa - subtle cognition?
Yep.Malcolm wrote: ↑Wed Dec 07, 2022 4:34 pm
The Ever Present Tilaka (Thig le kun gsal) states:
Mind and pristine consciousness,
are neither the same nor different.
They are phenomena that are difficult to differentiate.
The mind is the potential of pristine consciousness.
The basis of the mind is pristine consciousness.
Therefore, since mind and pristine consciousness
are both the same and different,
there is so-called liberation and nonliberation.
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Re: Rtog pa - subtle cognition?
The view that there is a conceptual mind to somehow get rid of, avoid, alter or change is the view of the Two Accumulations, not the Dzogchen view. I don’t know about anyone else, but I certainly am not in the View 24/7.
So, sometimes the Two Accumulations is useful as a kind of strategy for sure, but holding onto it as a definitive view I can only imagine is a direct impediment to the Dzogchen view, which in turn is an impediment to recognition, resolving doubts, and the whole shebang.
So, sometimes the Two Accumulations is useful as a kind of strategy for sure, but holding onto it as a definitive view I can only imagine is a direct impediment to the Dzogchen view, which in turn is an impediment to recognition, resolving doubts, and the whole shebang.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared
-Khunu Lama
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared
-Khunu Lama
Re: Rtog pa - subtle cognition?
Yes, that sounds about right.they just form and are seen as not constructed by a "me".
The 'practice' is to just let the display unwind: habitual tendencies, karma (karma vayu) - all that stuff (phenomena) that gets labelled; without grasping or rejecting.
After all, samsara is only a mistaken habit.
Last edited by Jules 09 on Wed Dec 07, 2022 8:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Rtog pa - subtle cognition?
Really? You are "labelling" in a state of rigpa? But that means you are engaging in conceptual proliferation. So you are contradicting yourself (again).Jules 09 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 07, 2022 8:17 pmYes, that sounds about right.they just form and are seen as not constructed by a "me".
The 'practice' is to just let the display unwind: habitual tendencies, karma (karma vayu) - all that stuff (phenomena) that gets labelled; without grasping or rejecting.
Re: Rtog pa - subtle cognition?
Malcolm wrote: ↑Wed Dec 07, 2022 8:36 pmReally? You are "labelling" in a state of rigpa? But that means you are engaging in conceptual proliferation. So you are contradicting yourself (again).
No, you have misinterpreted and misrepresented what I wrote.You are "labelling" in a state of rigpa?
Re: Rtog pa - subtle cognition?
No, I didn't. Write more clearly or get an editor. For example, had you written this, it would have been more clear.Jules 09 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 07, 2022 8:57 pmNo, you have misinterpreted and misrepresented what I wrote.You are "labelling" in a state of rigpa?
The 'practice' is to just let the display unwind—all that stuff (phenomena) that gets labelled, such as habitual tendencies, karma (karma vayu), and so on—without grasping or rejecting.
The thing is that traces don't get labeled, nor does karma, etc. They do not appear to mind as objects of cognition, since they belong to the ālayavijñana, which itself is not a cognizing consciousness. What gets labelled is second order impressions, the objects of the manovijñanadhātu. The five sense consciousness are nonconceptual by nature.
Re: Rtog pa - subtle cognition?
If explaining it to yourself in that way works for you in practice, then that is fine.Malcolm wrote: ↑Wed Dec 07, 2022 9:11 pmNo, I didn't. Write more clearly or get an editor. For example, had you written this, it would have been more clear.
The 'practice' is to just let the display unwind—all that stuff (phenomena) that gets labelled, such as habitual tendencies, karma (karma vayu), and so on—without grasping or rejecting.
The thing is that traces don't get labeled, nor does karma, etc. They do not appear to mind as objects of cognition, since they belong to the ālayavijñana, which itself is not a cognizing consciousness. What gets labelled is second order impressions, the objects of the manovijñanadhātu. The five sense consciousness are nonconceptual by nature.
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Re: Rtog pa - subtle cognition?
The display is not separate from the lucidity, that’s a nearly direct quote from a few teachings.Jules 09 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 07, 2022 8:17 pmYes, that sounds about right.they just form and are seen as not constructed by a "me".
The 'practice' is to just let the display unwind: habitual tendencies, karma (karma vayu) - all that stuff (phenomena) that gets labelled; without grasping or rejecting.
After all, samsara is only a mistaken habit.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared
-Khunu Lama
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared
-Khunu Lama
Re: Rtog pa - subtle cognition?
Within the themes of Dharma; I agree, for the most part.
With political matters, not so much
Last edited by Sādhaka on Thu Dec 08, 2022 3:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Rtog pa - subtle cognition?
Since, according to you, it is all fabrication, there is no reason at all that concepts cannot be present when resting in rig pa, since even "rig pa" is a fabrication, and not something established as real. So once again, you hoist yourself on your own pitard.
"For one whom emptiness is possible, everything is possible."
-- Nāgārjuna
Re: Rtog pa - subtle cognition?
It is said since what we accept, because learned so to be, that is itself a fabrication, therefore there is need of help by same fabricated nature to come out of that. Even these themselves are not liberating and can as well become new objects to cling to.
The written Dharma is pointing, it is not the written Dharma itself or the pointing itself what need to be known. Fellows here know that. But I as a stupid old woman, would be silent. Since I would knock with the wooden guideposts on the way of liberation, to get it right.
Homage to all Masters, all pointing to 'unfabricated natural' nature, being that unfabricated nature.
_/\_
The written Dharma is pointing, it is not the written Dharma itself or the pointing itself what need to be known. Fellows here know that. But I as a stupid old woman, would be silent. Since I would knock with the wooden guideposts on the way of liberation, to get it right.
Homage to all Masters, all pointing to 'unfabricated natural' nature, being that unfabricated nature.
_/\_
Re: Rtog pa - subtle cognition?
My bad!muni wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 9:55 am It is said since what we accept to be, because we learned so we are, that is itself a fabrication, therefore there is need of help by same fabricated nature to come out of that. Even these themselves are not liberating and can as well become new objects to cling to.
The written Dharma is pointing, it is not the written Dharma itself or the pointing itself what need to be known. Fellows here know that. But I as a stupid old woman, would be silent. Since I would knock with the wooden guideposts "on the way of liberation", to get it right.
Homage to all Masters, all pointing to 'unfabricated natural' nature, being that unfabricated nature.
_/\_
Re: Rtog pa - subtle cognition?
muni wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 12:39 pmMy bad!muni wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 9:55 am It is said since what we accept to be, because we learned so we are, that is itself a fabrication, therefore there is need of help by same fabricated nature to come out of that. Even these themselves are not liberating and can as well become new objects to cling to.
The written Dharma is pointing, it is not the written Dharma itself or the pointing itself what need to be known. Fellows here know that. But I as a stupid old woman, would be silent. Since I would knock with the wooden guideposts "on the way of liberation", to get it right.
Homage to all Masters, all pointing to 'unfabricated natural' nature, being that unfabricated nature.
_/\_
Homage to all the Masters that point.Homage to all Masters, all pointing to 'unfabricated natural' nature, being that unfabricated nature.