Zen (Vinaya) Monasteries for Westerners

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Dharmalight889
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Zen (Vinaya) Monasteries for Westerners

Post by Dharmalight889 »

Two monasteries I am aware of:

Plum Village Traditions

Musangsa (Kwan Um Tradition)

Does anyone have any opinions on these two monasteries? How the training is, are they reputable, pros and cons to each?

Are there any other options here in the United States??

I know monastic advice is not best gotten over the internet, but with many experienced practitioners on here I thought some may have some insight and advice before money is spent on travel and trial myself.
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Matt J
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Re: Zen (Vinaya) Monasteries for Westerners

Post by Matt J »

There are quite a few in the US:

Korinji in WI
Zen Mountain in NY
Blue Cliff in NY
Ryumonji in IA
Deer Park in CA
Tassajera in CA
Great Vow in Oregon

I doubt you can just up and join one-- I imagine they have a series of steps in order to become ordained into the tradition as a full time monk. I would recommend checking out the teachers and then attending retreats to see for yourself.
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Dharmalight889
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Re: Zen (Vinaya) Monasteries for Westerners

Post by Dharmalight889 »

Matt J wrote: Tue Nov 08, 2022 4:24 pm There are quite a few in the US:

Korinji in WI
Zen Mountain in NY
Blue Cliff in NY
Ryumonji in IA
Deer Park in CA
Tassajera in CA
Great Vow in Oregon

I doubt you can just up and join one-- I imagine they have a series of steps in order to become ordained into the tradition as a full time monk. I would recommend checking out the teachers and then attending retreats to see for yourself.
Many of these are non-vinaya monasteries since they are in the Japanese tradition. The two you mention seem to match my research with the Plum Village options (Blue Cliff and Deer Park). Do you or others have anything you can say about either of these two monasteries? I know Thich Nhat Hanh is well respected, but I was unsure how his monasteries are viewed or if any experienced people have some info.

Like you said, checking out the teachers and going myself will be best, but maybe some users on here can offer some of their experience or help :anjali:
narhwal90
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Re: Zen (Vinaya) Monasteries for Westerners

Post by narhwal90 »

I haven't practiced in either but others in my sangha have practiced for some time at Zen Mountain and recommend it highly. Plum Village is viewed with considerable respect as well.
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It'sYa1UPBoy
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Re: Zen (Vinaya) Monasteries for Westerners

Post by It'sYa1UPBoy »

There's a Plum Village monastery in Mississippi as well, Magnolia Grove. They also allow short stays, weekend/2wk/etc. so you can see if the lifestyle is right for you before starting an extended/monastic stay. They also seem very open and accepting, like any other order of Thay's I suppose. I hope I can stay a weekend there someday.
Dharmalight889
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Re: Zen (Vinaya) Monasteries for Westerners

Post by Dharmalight889 »

I was unaware of the Mississippi monastery so thanks for that. Seems similar to the other Plum Village monasteries so that is nice to know. You mention that you plan on going there and Narwhal also mentions that these monasteries are pretty respected (good lineage) is this something you could go into more? I have some slight worries with hearing they are a watered down form of Dharma, but I hear this about many zen centers so I am unsure if it is other schools calling them watered down for sectarian reasons, or if the plum Village branches and monks are a more waatered down form of Buddhism. Seems like one of the few options, but good Dharmas important so maybe others can clarify if it is good or bad monk training there.
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It'sYa1UPBoy
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Re: Zen (Vinaya) Monasteries for Westerners

Post by It'sYa1UPBoy »

I've never heard of Thich Nhat Hanh "watering down" his teachings. He describes them in terms that Westerners might more easily understand--- he wrote various introductory books to general mindfulness and Buddhist fundamentals ---but cultural adaptation is not necessarily corruption, it depends on how you go about it. (For example, as far as I know, he never denied basic doctrines such as reincarnation, which some "secular Buddhists" do deny.) Whenever I read his writings, I can feel the kindness and gentleness radiating off every page; he seemed like a very wonderful person. And he can explain and elucidate Buddhist teachings in a very clear manner. I think some criticism may be sectarian; other may be from people who want something more "advanced" from his writings/who found them too elementary for their tastes, which is most certainly a valid criticism. There is also probably some criticism of his "engaged Buddhism" which arose out of his desire to help the suffering people of wartorn Vietnam. While I absolutely understand skepticism towards monastics who involves themselves deeply in secular affairs, Thay's motivation was compassion, not ego. In any case, Thay was respected by other renowned Buddhists of other sects, such as the Dalai Lama, which I certainly think speaks volumes about his Dharmic credentials.

As for how they train their monastics, I can't say for certain, as I've never been there, but I've never heard anything bad about them, knock on wood. They certainly seem legit, and Thay had lineage behind him to start his monasteries.
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