something extremely uncomofortable happens when I lust

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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: something extremely uncomofortable happens when I lust

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

rozoksmaslom wrote: Mon Dec 12, 2022 1:26 pm
PadmaVonSamba wrote: Sun Dec 11, 2022 3:50 pm It’s only freaky if you think there is a connection between the two.
connection between what?

Are you saying that suffering is purely conincidental?
I didn’t say “purely”. Please don’t misread what people write and then put words into their mouth.

But suffering certainly can be. Why not?
Everything had a cause. Nobody is disputing that. But my point is that you may simply be connecting two things which have no cause-effect relationship whatsoever. Hence, the example:

It’s like thinking that because I had eggs for breakfast, that’s why somebody drove into my car in the afternoon.

You didn’t get that, huh?

This is extremely common when people do something they feel guilty about, and then something negative happens to them. Of course, it should be obvious why that is. When we feel very bad about something, it becomes central focus of our attention, and then everything else that occurs simply revolves around that. And the more badly we feel about something, the more we think we are being punished. But it’s all an ego trip. It’s just more self-grasping. But karma isn’t some cosmic system of punishments and rewards.

Of course, there are many examples of valid karmic causes and resulting effects. I’m not saying that isn’t true. But even the Buddha pointed out that there are many things which occur outside of karma, unfortunate events that can happen to a person but which have nothing to do with that person’s karma.
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rozoksmaslom
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Re: something extremely uncomofortable happens when I lust

Post by rozoksmaslom »

Zhen Li wrote: Sat Oct 29, 2022 6:01 amwhich for the most part are irrelevant since you haven't done anything actually wrong.
I am suffering greatly, therefore I did something wrong.
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: something extremely uncomofortable happens when I lust

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

rozoksmaslom wrote: Sun Jan 01, 2023 10:33 am I am suffering greatly, therefore I did something wrong.
That’s actually a mistaken view. The Buddha listed many misfortunes that are not caused by karma.
Karma isn’t some cosmic system of rewards and punishments.
However, although negative actions do lead to negative results, this doesn’t mean that the cause of your misfortunes is what you think it is.
But this point has already been brought up to you at least once.

Suffering is the result of self-grasping, self-attachment.
Maybe you only think your suffering is caused by sexual desire because you feel the most guilt from sexual desire.
If everybody suffered terrible misfortunes because of having sexual desires, none of us would even exist today.
Therefore, what would make you the exception?

You originally posted:
EVERYTIME I was about to earn some money, I somehow always lost it, or to use a modern term, demanifested it. And I would also lose the (low paying) job. Not only that, I also lose or rather lost the ability to use almost everything that I own (everything in my house).
what does ‘somehow” mean? If you spent all of your money on prostitutes or pornography, or got fired for sexual behavior in the workplace, or didn’t show up for work because you were too busy with sex, then yes, you could say that sexual desire has led you to ruin.
But that doesn’t mean “the universe always sent me something alluring which I couldn't resist”.
You are in the universe. It isn’t ‘sending’ you things. It just means you are letting sex get in the way of your responsibilities.
By making it out to be some kind of cosmic karma thing, you are just obscuring the ordinary reality of it.
Doing that will prevent you from finding a real solution.
The simple answer is “keep your pants on and don’t be late for work.”

Otherwise, it really sounds like you are ignoring other causes and just blaming sex.
What were the actual circumstances that led you to lose your job? Your money?
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Sādhaka
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Re: something extremely uncomofortable happens when I lust

Post by Sādhaka »

rozoksmaslom,

Instead of feeling guilty for something that has already happened and is past & gone, why not just make changes for the better now?

Are you interested in any Yogic practices at all?

The mind is the most important; however addressing the sexual problem with body methods is also very useful.
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Re: something extremely uncomofortable happens when I lust

Post by Sādhaka »

Hi Rozoksmaslom,

That's why I suggested Yoga and working directly with the body.

Because theoretically, a Buddhist could attain Buddhahood from only studying and sitting meditation, since the mind is primary. However I think that for most individuals, this is going to end in failure, especially when it comes to the lust issue.

Even though study and meditation are a must for the Buddhist path, it seems that most are going to end up in frustration like you seem to be, if they don't work directly with the body in addition to their Buddhist study and meditation.
Last edited by Sādhaka on Wed Jan 25, 2023 3:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: something extremely uncomofortable happens when I lust

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rozoksmaslom wrote: Sun Jan 01, 2023 10:33 am
Zhen Li wrote: Sat Oct 29, 2022 6:01 amwhich for the most part are irrelevant since you haven't done anything actually wrong.
I am suffering greatly, therefore I did something wrong.
We all are, this is samsara. Feeling that way is how this works. So, there’s no need to personalize it the way you are, it’s like thinking gravity is mad at you or something.
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Re: something extremely uncomofortable happens when I lust

Post by DharmaJunior »

It's great fun swinging from branch to branch, then comes security and the potential for ultimate gloom. that pretty much summarizes the home unit. Well actually that's my impression so far. So there's a safe platform, physically, and a 'fly too close to the sun' burning-ness. Fly around a bit, but don't stray too much, (clipping of wings springs to mind). In other words, do it at your own peril. :mrgreen:
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Re: something extremely uncomofortable happens when I lust

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rozoksmaslom wrote: Mon Dec 12, 2022 1:26 pm
PadmaVonSamba wrote: Sun Dec 11, 2022 3:50 pm It’s only freaky if you think there is a connection between the two.
connection between what?

Are you saying that suffering is purely conincidental?
As we are limited samsaric beings, it’s pretty much impossible for us to know all the causes of our karma. The best we can do is practice virtue with the understanding that it leads to better results for everyone else, and eventually better results for us.

However, if we are only practicing virtue to alleviate our own suffering, it isn’t really virtue, at least from a Mahayana perspective.

It really sounds like your attitude about these things is somewhat transactional, like the reason to be virtuous is what you do or don’t get…that’s maybe worth examining. That is pinning your ethics to the Eight Worldly Concerns.

Also eating sugar or not really has zero to do with ethics and karma outside of maybe if you have a problem with it.

Anyway, I think it’s worth considering that the transaction al, somewhat puritanical view you have of virtue is part of the problem itself, rather than the solution.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared

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Re: something extremely uncomofortable happens when I lust

Post by Konchog Thogme Jampa »

Get a Vajrasattva Empowerment

Do a short Vajrasattva retreat

With a teacher on hand to help
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rozoksmaslom
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Re: something extremely uncomofortable happens when I lust

Post by rozoksmaslom »

PadmaVonSamba wrote: Mon Dec 12, 2022 3:20 pmBut karma isn’t some cosmic system of punishments and rewards.
What is it then? From what I've read, pure mind and pure actions result in positive, pleasant results. Impure mind and impure actions result in negative, unpleasant results.
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Re: something extremely uncomofortable happens when I lust

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rozoksmaslom wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 11:28 pm
PadmaVonSamba wrote: Mon Dec 12, 2022 3:20 pmBut karma isn’t some cosmic system of punishments and rewards.
What is it then? From what I've read, pure mind and pure actions result in positive, pleasant results. Impure mind and impure actions result in negative, unpleasant results.
That’s generally the case.

I think one of the best teachings / explanations about what karma is and isn’t is in this podcast by a Lama named Dr. Lye:

https://urbandharmancpodcast.wordpress. ... it-part-1/

…I strongly suggest spending a little time listening to it.

One of the points he makes is that a lot of people are simply substituting the word ‘karma’ for ‘god’. So, instead of a god rewarding and punishing, it’s karma. Or the universe. But the effects of karma are created within one’s own mind. They are caused by the actions of one’s own mind.
This thing of thinking you are being punished for having certain feelings, that’s your own thought-creation.

Something else to consider, it’s funny when people talk about ‘the universe’ as though it is something external. Like, you and I are here, and the universe is out there. It’s not two separate things. We are part of the universe. Our entire physical makeup is the universe, or a tiny part of it anyway.
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Re: something extremely uncomofortable happens when I lust

Post by DharmaJunior »

I'm not sure it's a very good idea being the universe and in charge of everything, especially if infinite sapient beings catch wind what with all the blaming going on. For example, I read an interesting rodent micro-climate study where everything was granted for the rodents and nothing done, suffice to say it didn't work out too well. I recently took charge of a hamster and made sure my hand didn't smell of food when trying to free her from her miniature samsara hamster wheel.

Anyway just to add to the point above it's written in the Dhammapada, to paraphrase: act and speak with a pure mind and happiness will follow. So action, translated from Sanskrit, is an adjective word in English language (or not an identifier).

AFAIK, action plus intention is Buddhist, which is obviously the tricky part. Being cheerful and nice is a good start; having a good attitude and disciplining oneself just not in a masochistic sense.

Ok, I better pay attention to some talks and do reading.
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Re: something extremely uncomofortable happens when I lust

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rozoksmaslom wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 11:28 pm
PadmaVonSamba wrote: Mon Dec 12, 2022 3:20 pmBut karma isn’t some cosmic system of punishments and rewards.
What is it then? From what I've read, pure mind and pure actions result in positive, pleasant results. Impure mind and impure actions result in negative, unpleasant results.
What do you think defines pure and impure, what definitions are you using?
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared

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rozoksmaslom
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Re: something extremely uncomofortable happens when I lust

Post by rozoksmaslom »

Johnny Dangerous wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2023 3:47 am
rozoksmaslom wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 11:28 pm
PadmaVonSamba wrote: Mon Dec 12, 2022 3:20 pmBut karma isn’t some cosmic system of punishments and rewards.
What is it then? From what I've read, pure mind and pure actions result in positive, pleasant results. Impure mind and impure actions result in negative, unpleasant results.
What do you think defines pure and impure, what definitions are you using?
mind free of negative emotions, with the intent or attitude of wanting to benefit myself and others
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rozoksmaslom
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Re: something extremely uncomofortable happens when I lust

Post by rozoksmaslom »

I'm cursed.
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: something extremely uncomofortable happens when I lust

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

rozoksmaslom wrote: Thu Feb 23, 2023 10:36 am I'm cursed.
rozoksmaslom wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2023 3:49 pm
Johnny Dangerous wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2023 3:47 am
rozoksmaslom wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 11:28 pm

From what I've read, pure mind and pure actions result in positive, pleasant results. Impure mind and impure actions result in negative, unpleasant results.
What do you think defines pure and impure, what definitions are you using?
mind free of negative emotions, with the intent or attitude of wanting to benefit myself and others
So, you believe that there is someone or something that can put a “curse” on you? That belief is an obstacle right there, if you still think karma is a system of rewards and punishments. As long as you think that, then there will be no end to blaming “this because of that” about everything you experience as negative.

Your understanding of karma, that “pure mind and pure actions result in positive, pleasant results. Impure mind and impure actions result in negative, unpleasant results” is only partly correct.

First, it isn’t the events one encounters which are the result of karma, but it’s more about how we experience those events, as positive, negative, or neutral, which is the result of previous karma.

Of course, ordinary cause and effect takes place all the time. If you light a candle and forget about it, and as a result your house burns down, that’s ordinary cause and effect. Karma emerges in terms of how you relate to that and deal with it, how you experience in your mind.

Second, not all things that happen to us are the result of karma. A strong wind blowing a tree branch down on your head is not due to your karma. Of course, the tree branch falling does have a cause, the wind. Everything had a cause for happening, but not everything has a ‘reason’ for happening.

As long as you think you are being punished or cursed, you will experience negative situations as punishments and curses. That is karma. Not being able to accept that sometimes a person can have a series of unusual misfortunes is a matter of thoughts.

But you are also correct about “mind free of negative emotions, with the intent or attitude of wanting to benefit myself and others” yet by insisting that you are a victim of karma, you are actually creating the conditions for more negativity
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Re: something extremely uncomofortable happens when I lust

Post by rozoksmaslom »

thx for the reply. sounds logical, I guess

you're saying, if I put my hand on a hot stove, what I think of the situation/or experience, determines whether I feel the pain of contact with hot stove or not?
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Re: something extremely uncomofortable happens when I lust

Post by DharmaJunior »

I find it's uncomfortable being 'subject' to 'something', so there's a >not do< thing and also, that's what happens when do. Hopefully that makes a bit of sense. Lusts are to my mind not a place of solace.
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Re: something extremely uncomofortable happens when I lust

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

rozoksmaslom wrote: Thu Feb 23, 2023 6:05 pm thx for the reply. sounds logical, I guess

you're saying, if I put my hand on a hot stove, what I think of the situation/or experience, determines whether I feel the pain of contact with hot stove or not?
Well realistically, since you are already convinced that a hot stove will cause pain if touched, just thinking that it won’t burn you (denying it) won’t stop it from burning you.

Also, there is an obvious link between heat as the cause of burning, and something that gets burned.

However, some people, through powerful
Concentration, are able to touch very hot things and not feel pain.

But if you think that you got burned by the stove because you had inappropriate sexual feelings, that would not make sense, as there is no direct link between the two.

This takes us back to your original post. Just because you have certain sexual thoughts, that would not be the cause for losing money or getting fired from a job (if those thoughts are acted upon, towards a co-worker, that’s an entirely different matter!)
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Re: something extremely uncomofortable happens when I lust

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.
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