Supramundane effect of taking refuge

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Eukaryote
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Supramundane effect of taking refuge

Post by Eukaryote »

Hi everyone - long time admirer of your collective erudition, first time posting.

I was wondering if there is any supramundane consequence from (ceremonially) taking refuge in the Mahayana traditions. I've heard that it can affect rebirth but that may not matter on the bodhisattva path.

Because of the circumstances of my current (Zen) sangha, I am unlikely to be able to attend jukai/initiation for many years to come. While I live by the precepts and centre my life around the three jewels I am curious if there is said to be any negative consequence to my not having yet gone through this ceremony, especially as we do not know when our hour will come.
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Könchok Thrinley
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Re: Supramundane effect of taking refuge

Post by Könchok Thrinley »

Eukaryote wrote: Tue Oct 11, 2022 3:26 pm Hi everyone - long time admirer of your collective erudition, first time posting.

I was wondering if there is any supramundane consequence from (ceremonially) taking refuge in the Mahayana traditions. I've heard that it can affect rebirth but that may not matter on the bodhisattva path.

Because of the circumstances of my current (Zen) sangha, I am unlikely to be able to attend jukai/initiation for many years to come. While I live by the precepts and centre my life around the three jewels I am curious if there is said to be any negative consequence to my not having yet gone through this ceremony, especially as we do not know when our hour will come.
There are many such effects. One is that one who takes refuge in the Triple Gem cannot be attacked by demons. It is a true protection.

Also quite a few of my Tibetan teachers have said that people who wholeheartedly take refuge in the Three Jewels won't die of starvation and in general will be taken care of.

But naturally it comes down to such qualities as faith and sincerity.

AFAIK ceremony is a ceremony. Sure it is important, however who has really taken refuge, someone who prostrated in front of representation of the Buddha and with faith and devotion recited refuge prayer in an attitude changing way or someone who has just taken a ceremony and has an incense stick burn or a bit of hair cut off without much change?
“Observing samaya involves to remain inseparable from the union of wisdom and compassion at all times, to sustain mindfulness, and to put into practice the guru’s instructions”. Garchen Rinpoche

For those who do virtuous actions,
goodness is what comes to pass.
For those who do non-virtuous actions,
that becomes suffering indeed.

- Arya Sanghata Sutra
Soma999
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Re: Supramundane effect of taking refuge

Post by Soma999 »

If you take refuge in the Buddha and also in the pure luminosity of mind ; if you take refuge in dharma and also in all universal laws and live in harmony with them : if you take refuge in the sangha and in the idea of fraternity and unity, for sure, there will be very deep blessings.

If you take refuge in the guru, following the external guru, listening the internal guru, if you take refuge in the yidam and divine nature, if you take refuge in the dakini and the mystery of energy, you will be deeply transformed.

If you take refuge in the three kayas and the inseparability of mind, guru and deity, there will be also profund effects.
reiun
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Re: Supramundane effect of taking refuge

Post by reiun »

"In the moment of that acceptance [of the precepts] and in each moment of our lives, whenever we aspire toward action that manifests this intelligence, that is Jukai."

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Zhen Li
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Re: Supramundane effect of taking refuge

Post by Zhen Li »

What comes to mind is Ajataśatru's rootless faith:
[Ajatasatru said:]

O World-Honoured One! I observe that in the world the eranda [recinus communis] comes from the eranda seed, but not that sandalwood comes from eranda. I now see for the first time that sandalwood comes from the eranda seed. The eranda seed is none but I. The sandalwood is the faith that has no root in my mind. I say "rootless". That is to say that I first did not know how to respect the Tathagata, that I did not believe in the Dharma and Sangha. This is what I call "rootless". O World-Honoured One! If I had not met with you, the Tathagata-World-Honoured One, I would have had to live for innumerable asamkhyas of kalpas in a great hell, suffering there infinite pain. I am now fortunate to have met with you, the Tathagata. By virtue of having seen this Buddha, I can now crush all defilements and the evil state of mind.

The Buddha said:

O great King! Well said, well said! I now know that you will surely destroy the evil state of mind of beings.

[Ajatasatru said:]

O World-Honoured One! If I could well destroy the evil state of mind of beings, I could well fall into Avichi Hell and suffer great pain there for innumerable kalpas, and I should not feel it as pain.
As others have pointed out, in taking refuge you orient yourself towards/around your Buddha Nature. Although we go for refuge in a ceremony, it is rootless in us. Encountering the Buddha can be enough to plant rootless faith in our minds.
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