Can atheists and secular people practice Pure Land Buddhism?

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rodolfosancheznusa36
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Can atheists and secular people practice Pure Land Buddhism?

Post by rodolfosancheznusa36 »

Just curious. Amituofo!
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Kim O'Hara
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Re: Can atheists and secular people practice Pure Land Buddhism?

Post by Kim O'Hara »

The answer is mostly a matter of your definitions of 'atheist' and 'secular'.

An atheist is, strictly, someone who does not believe in God. That doesn't stop atheists practising Pure Land.
Many people expand it to include people who believe in any supernatural entity at all. That does stop atheists practsing Pure Land.

Secular is used in similar ways, and sometimes as an equivalent of 'rationalist' or 'materialist'. Again, broader definitions present obstacles tp Pure Land (or any other) religious practice.

If you're asking for your own benefit, you have to look at what you are and are not willing to believe. If you're a hardline materialist rationalist, any kind of Buddhism will be a poor fit for you but modernised, secularised, approaches based on it (such as MBSR - look it up!) may make your life better.

There are popularly supposed to be 84 000 dharma doors. Find yours.

:namaste:
Kim
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Zhen Li
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Re: Can atheists and secular people practice Pure Land Buddhism?

Post by Zhen Li »

They do. I think you can find people with all sorts of views practising Pure Land. Anyone can try to practice anything, but this is a different question from what the "right view" is from a traditional perspective I think.
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laic
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Re: Can atheists and secular people practice Pure Land Buddhism?

Post by laic »

Can there be a "right view" on this? All "views" are seen as inimical to the "holy life" according to many expressions of the Dharma.

Pure Land gives primacy to Other Power, that makes "things to become so of themselves beyond our calculation".

The whole question is full of paradox. Trust/faith is all.

What exactly is a Pure Lander's "practice"?
Last edited by laic on Sun Oct 09, 2022 6:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Zhen Li
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Re: Can atheists and secular people practice Pure Land Buddhism?

Post by Zhen Li »

laic wrote: Sun Oct 09, 2022 6:58 pm Can there be a "right view" on this? All "views" are seen as inimical to the "holy life" according to many expressions of the Dharma.

Pure Land gives primacy to Other Power, that makes "things to become so of themselves beyond our calculation".

The whole question is full of paradox. Trust/faith is all.

What exactly is a Pure Lander's "practice"?
Maybe just to clarify, I think all Pure Land sects can agree on the "practice" as Nembutsu/Nianfo. To what extent this involves only verbal utterance or visualisation and other practices differ from sect to sect. In Shin, yes we see this as coming about without our calculation—by natural working, but this is not the same in Jodo-shu.

For "right view," I think the question is one of whether a secular or atheist view is compatible with Pure Land from a traditional perspective. If you are "interested in the world" (secular) and not inclined to reject the world, it is hard to aspire for birth, but this can differ from person to person, so it's not black and white. For the atheist view, traditionally we do believe that a Nembutsu reciter is protected by all devas—so, we do not reject the existence of gods, we just don't believe in a creator god.

I am just thinking of this on a simple level, perhaps, not so paradoxically, but we can take it to that level, of course.
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laic
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Re: Can atheists and secular people practice Pure Land Buddhism?

Post by laic »

Zhen Li wrote: Mon Oct 10, 2022 1:54 am
laic wrote: Sun Oct 09, 2022 6:58 pm Can there be a "right view" on this? All "views" are seen as inimical to the "holy life" according to many expressions of the Dharma.

Pure Land gives primacy to Other Power, that makes "things to become so of themselves beyond our calculation".

The whole question is full of paradox. Trust/faith is all.

What exactly is a Pure Lander's "practice"?
Maybe just to clarify, I think all Pure Land sects can agree on the "practice" as Nembutsu/Nianfo. To what extent this involves only verbal utterance or visualisation and other practices differ from sect to sect. In Shin, yes we see this as coming about without our calculation—by natural working, but this is not the same in Jodo-shu.

For "right view," I think the question is one of whether a secular or atheist view is compatible with Pure Land from a traditional perspective. If you are "interested in the world" (secular) and not inclined to reject the world, it is hard to aspire for birth, but this can differ from person to person, so it's not black and white. For the atheist view, traditionally we do believe that a Nembutsu reciter is protected by all devas—so, we do not reject the existence of gods, we just don't believe in a creator god.

I am just thinking of this on a simple level, perhaps, not so paradoxically, but we can take it to that level, of course.
Yes, thanks Zhen Li, good post. I tend to get caught up in my own complexities.

Thank you
Protecting oneself one protects others
Protecting others one protects oneself
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