World Cup 2022

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Archie2009
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Re: World Cup 2022

Post by Archie2009 »

Norwegian wrote: Sat Dec 03, 2022 8:43 pm
Queequeg wrote: Sat Dec 03, 2022 8:14 pm They also play too white
Please don't make this into a thing about race or ethnicity. It's infantile and dumb, and has never helped anybody. Whatever you want to say about this or that team, to say that they play "too white", or "too black", etc. is only insulting towards the ethnicities you reference. There's an infinite many other ways of analyzing a team and how it plays, be it through what formation they apply (4-4-2, 4-3-3, etc.), if they're predominantly offensive or defensive, timid or aggressive, plays dirty or fair, relies on set pieces or quick counter attacks, have a lot of possession or no possession, are precise or sloppy, ad infinitum.
Americans are obsessed with racializing all behaviour. It's called anti-racism. Their coach, Gregg Berhalter, even played in the Netherlands for 6 years. So a strange remark indeed.
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Queequeg
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Re: World Cup 2022

Post by Queequeg »

Norwegian wrote: Sat Dec 03, 2022 8:43 pm
Queequeg wrote: Sat Dec 03, 2022 8:14 pm They also play too white
Please don't make this into a thing about race or ethnicity. It's infantile and dumb, and has never helped anybody. Whatever you want to say about this or that team, to say that they play "too white", or "too black", etc. is only insulting towards the ethnicities you reference. There's an infinite many other ways of analyzing a team and how it plays, be it through what formation they apply (4-4-2, 4-3-3, etc.), if they're predominantly offensive or defensive, timid or aggressive, plays dirty or fair, relies on set pieces or quick counter attacks, have a lot of possession or no possession, are precise or sloppy, ad infinitum.
Overreaction much?
Archie2009 wrote: Sat Dec 03, 2022 9:00 pm Americans are obsessed with racializing all behaviour. It's called anti-racism. Their coach, Gregg Berhalter, even played in the Netherlands for 6 years. So a strange remark indeed.
So earnestly color blind! Commendable.

LOL. You guys and your pearl clutching.
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Re: World Cup 2022

Post by Norwegian »

Queequeg wrote: Sat Dec 03, 2022 9:10 pm Overreaction much?
No. You made a stupid comment, that's all. Own that. And don't try to pretend that it wasn't stupid.
Archie2009
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Re: World Cup 2022

Post by Archie2009 »

Queequeg wrote: Sat Dec 03, 2022 9:10 pm
Archie2009 wrote: Sat Dec 03, 2022 9:00 pm Americans are obsessed with racializing all behaviour. It's called anti-racism. Their coach, Gregg Berhalter, even played in the Netherlands for 6 years. So a strange remark indeed.
So earnestly color blind! Commendable.

LOL. You guys and your pearl clutching.
No, buddy, not colorblind. Just not obsessed with race like your society.

Colorblindness is a much beloved straw man used to shut up opponents. It doesn't work on Europeans so much.
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Konchog Thogme Jampa
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Re: World Cup 2022

Post by Konchog Thogme Jampa »

Football not as exciting today as the group stage deciders

Messi showed his class with that goal though almost went in slow motion
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Re: World Cup 2022

Post by Norwegian »

Konchog Thogme Jampa wrote: Sat Dec 03, 2022 9:27 pm Football not as exciting today as the group stage deciders

Messi showed his class with that goal though almost went in slow motion
2nd half in Argentina-Australia match was good. Hope there's more action in tomorrow's matches with France-Poland, and England-Senegal.
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Re: World Cup 2022

Post by Malcolm »

Queequeg wrote: Sat Dec 03, 2022 8:08 pm We can probably readily see this in the ways we dance.
Indeed, white people generally suffer from a deficit in this area. Too much clogging, not enough twerking...
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Re: World Cup 2022

Post by Malcolm »

Archie2009 wrote: Sat Dec 03, 2022 9:15 pm Just not obsessed with race like your society.
You don't have a history of systematic genocide and slavery in your country. The Dutch outsourced that to the Dutch colonies.

https://www.oxfordbibliographies.com/vi ... 4-0230.xml

It's different when you live in a country with people whom your ancestors tried to wipe out (Native people) and people whom your ancestors imported like domestic animals (Africans). Failing that, you then systematically oppressed them through the legal, educational, and legislative systems for a 100 years+. If this was the history of your country, you might have a slightly different attitude.

We are not obsessed, we are just trying to deal with the trauma of 5 centuries of oppression and its fall out. Some Americans are in denial (Republicans who wish it would all go away) and others experience guilt (many progressives).

America remains a a great place, however. I wouldn't really want to live anywhere else, because I am not high value enough to be a global nomad. :-) Far from it. As demented as US politics are right now, it is still a good place to live.

Also, a lot of the obsession you see is actually coming from the right (suppressed guilt, aka denial). They are the ones freaking out about obscure shit like CRT, which they deliberately misrepresent. College students are eternally freaking out and always have.
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Virgo
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Re: World Cup 2022

Post by Virgo »

This is ridiculous.

It's okay to make fun of white people but it is not okay to make fun of black people?

This is ridiculous.

Virgo
KristenM
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Re: World Cup 2022

Post by KristenM »

Queequeg wrote: Sat Dec 03, 2022 8:14 pm
KristenM wrote: Sat Dec 03, 2022 6:09 pm Congrats Netherlands! Good game, tough to see the USA lose, but honestly the Dutch are a great team. I hope that you win the World Cup. :)
US never had a chance. The US has no goal scorers or defenders. Just a bunch of midfielders. They also play too white, too suburban, too genteel. When black kids start playing soccer and make it their own (if they ever do), then we'll see actual good teams, not just a bunch of well conditioned athletes.

The Dutch team is great. Not taking anything away from them.

Congrats.
Yes, the US team lacked a deadly striker which is necessary to win against the “Superpowers of Soccer” teams like Netherlands, Argentina, Brazil, France etc etc. We still have to develop a lot. In my neck of the woods, there’s a lot of Latino (mostly from Mexico) families bringing passion for soccer. When my husband and I went to see the US play against England, we were the only “white” people there watching and cheering for the USA. Everyone else was Latino/Hispanic. It was honestly heartwarming. I see the US developing a ton in the next decade, but what I enjoy about soccer is that it’s anyone’s game. Messi is a little guy but he utilizes his petite frame for lethal purpose lol. You can be rich or poor, big or small, doesn’t matter. It’s technique and strategy that matter most. Maybe that’s all sports? The Japanese beating Germany definitely prove that point. The USA just doesn’t have soccer in their DNA…yet.

Nice to watch a sport competition that crosses borders and reminds us that deep down we are all the same.
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Re: World Cup 2022

Post by Virgo »

When my husband and I went to see the US play against England, we were the only “white” people there watching and cheering for the USA. Everyone else was Latino/Hispanic. It was honestly heartwarming.
Why would that make a difference?

Virgo
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Re: World Cup 2022

Post by KristenM »

Virgo wrote: Sun Dec 04, 2022 1:45 am
When my husband and I went to see the US play against England, we were the only “white” people there watching and cheering for the USA. Everyone else was Latino/Hispanic. It was honestly heartwarming.
Why would that make a difference?

Virgo
It doesn’t make any difference, however typically one sees a lot of support for Mexico’s team and not for the USA in my area of the US when it comes to soccer. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. It’s all part of the multicultural environment we live in. I wouldn’t have it any other way.
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Re: World Cup 2022

Post by DNS »

KristenM wrote: Sun Dec 04, 2022 1:41 am Messi is a little guy but he utilizes his petite frame for lethal purpose lol. You can be rich or poor, big or small, doesn’t matter. It’s technique and strategy that matter most. Maybe that’s all sports? The Japanese beating Germany definitely prove that point. The USA just doesn’t have soccer in their DNA…yet.
That's one of my favorite things about soccer.

Image

Harry Souttar 6'6" (1.98m)
Lionel Messi 5'7" (1.70m)

One can excel and reach top levels like the above two and be short or tall or anything in between.

No, definitely not all sports have that feature. Basketball, volleyball, many others; definite advantage for being tall.
Gymnastics, weightlifting, some others, the advantage is better for being short.
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Re: World Cup 2022

Post by Norwegian »

KristenM wrote: Sun Dec 04, 2022 2:15 am
Virgo wrote: Sun Dec 04, 2022 1:45 am
When my husband and I went to see the US play against England, we were the only “white” people there watching and cheering for the USA. Everyone else was Latino/Hispanic. It was honestly heartwarming.
Why would that make a difference?

Virgo
It doesn’t make any difference, however typically one sees a lot of support for Mexico’s team and not for the USA in my area of the US when it comes to soccer. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. It’s all part of the multicultural environment we live in. I wouldn’t have it any other way.
Football as a sport has a really good feature in that everybody can play it. It doesn't cost much money at all, and you can do it even with a cheap ball. Last World Cup was watched by 3.57 billion people or so. Basically half the planet. There's 29,208 football teams in Brazil alone. There's over a million teams on the planet. Close to 4,000 pro teams in total. So it reaches a lot of people.
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Re: World Cup 2022

Post by KristenM »

Virgo wrote: Sun Dec 04, 2022 1:45 am
When my husband and I went to see the US play against England, we were the only “white” people there watching and cheering for the USA. Everyone else was Latino/Hispanic. It was honestly heartwarming.
Why would that make a difference?

Virgo
And let me be honest. It makes a difference because we are utilizing and acquiring talent from other countries that have way more history and talent in soccer than we do historically in the US. Entiendes?
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Re: World Cup 2022

Post by Konchog Thogme Jampa »

Norwegian wrote: Sat Dec 03, 2022 9:59 pm
Konchog Thogme Jampa wrote: Sat Dec 03, 2022 9:27 pm Football not as exciting today as the group stage deciders

Messi showed his class with that goal though almost went in slow motion
2nd half in Argentina-Australia match was good. Hope there's more action in tomorrow's matches with France-Poland, and England-Senegal.
Hoping for an England Poland quarter final although we could beat France put Kyle Walker on Mbappe as he has serious speed to keep up with him
Kai lord
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Re: World Cup 2022

Post by Kai lord »

The dark horses in this tournament so far, are Senegal, Morocco and argusbly Portugal.

The matches in round 16 that have the highest probability of underdog winning, are Japan vs Croatia, Morocco vs spain and arguably England vs Senegal.

Its interesting to know that Japan has never made it to the WC quarter finals before but then again Croatia is not the same team that got into the final four years ago.

So if there is any time more favourable for Japan to make into the quarters, now is the time.
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Ayu
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Re: World Cup 2022

Post by Ayu »

Queequeg wrote: Sat Dec 03, 2022 8:36 pm
Ayu wrote: Sat Dec 03, 2022 3:12 pm ...
BTW, reading commentary coming out of Germany that the German team is no longer elite... seems like over reaction. Maybe the team is not at the level when Germany won the World Cup a few years ago, but the team is still great. As I argued above - the upsets are not so much evidence of great soccer powers falling dramatically, but these up and coming national teams getting better and more competitive.

Anyways... though I'm not as invested in soccer, I am a big supporter of the Buffalo Bills American football team. We were very mediocre to terrible for a generation. I had many days, weeks, and months ruined by their dismal losses. I very much understand how the losses of the teams we root for affect us viscerally, individually and across regions. All the more when we have expectations.

I feel your pain.
Yes, to lose feels like being lost to many. This is when fans get absorbed in it.

Anyhow, it's the habit of German media to overreact. Probably that's what sells and what people want to read. They love simplifications and exaggerations in order to understand their world. News which are not extreme seem to reach nobody.

When Germany's team reached the runner-up slot in South-Korea 2002 and when they became Worldchampion 1990, everybody immediately forgot about how they reached these tasks. They were slow, arrogant and very, very lucky often - nobody remembers. People only remember results.
If Spain had beaten Japan and Germany had stayed in the tournament, everybody would be so impressed by the performance of the team.

I'm glad, I don't take this too seriously anymore.
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Ayu
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Re: World Cup 2022

Post by Ayu »

Kai lord wrote: Sun Dec 04, 2022 7:21 am The dark horses in this tournament so far, are Senegal, Morocco and argusbly Portugal.

The matches in round 16 that have the highest probability of underdog winning, are Japan vs Croatia, Morocco vs spain and arguably England vs Senegal.

Its interesting to know that Japan has never made it to the WC quarter finals before but then again Croatia is not the same team that got into the final four years ago.

So if there is any time more favourable for Japan to make into the quarters, now is the time.
I believe, the recent team of Croatia is a hard challenge for any team.
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Re: World Cup 2022

Post by Svalaksana »

Norwegian wrote: Sun Dec 04, 2022 2:25 amFootball as a sport has a really good feature in that everybody can play it. It doesn't cost much money at all, and you can do it even with a cheap ball. Last World Cup was watched by 3.57 billion people or so. Basically half the planet. There's 29,208 football teams in Brazil alone. There's over a million teams on the planet. Close to 4,000 pro teams in total. So it reaches a lot of people.
Indeed and another thing that I quite like about football, at least on a club level, is that you often see people from antagonized countries, with historical rivalries or ressentiment, or even countries at war, embracing, celebrating, hugging and hanging out together. On the pitch you will find a Croatian, or an Albanian or a Bosnian and a Serbian joyfully playing together, an American assisting a Persian or Iraqi or Vietnamese, a Greek celebrating with a Turk, a Chinese supporting a Japanese, Argentinians playing on Brazillian teams, Pakistanis joining forces with Indians, and that is very heartwarming to see.

Naturally national teams bring out for many a nationalistic fervour, but I opt to look at club competitions as an example of the way those obstacles may be overcome.
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