Trekcho rigpa vs thogal rigpa

Passing By
Posts: 298
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2018 6:49 pm

Trekcho rigpa vs thogal rigpa

Post by Passing By »

In the now locked thread, Malcolm mentioned that rigpa is actually subcategorized by trekcho and thogal and that the inseparability of kadak and lhundrub actually corresponds to thogal.

What does trekcho correspond to in this case? It's interesting since trekcho instructions also contain numerous introductions to this inseparability and sustaining of its recognition via the Four Chogzhags or the Nine sets of Three relaxations so it seemed like both had the same rigpa and result.
User avatar
Jules 09
Posts: 438
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:18 pm

Re: Trekcho rigpa vs thogal rigpa

Post by Jules 09 »

The practice of trekcho is concerning with cutting through the mind's habitual tendencies to make dualistic distinctions, which are based on concepts.
User avatar
bryandavis
Posts: 371
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 pm

Re: Trekcho rigpa vs thogal rigpa

Post by bryandavis »

Treckcho corresponds to the primordially pure empty aspect of the basis. The path of the four visions (the Lhundrup aspect) is the unity of kadak Lhundrup,and one can not really engage in the path with out the stability of treckcho. Then when the exhaustion / consumation of dharmas is manifest, the primordial pure liberated unified state of Samantabhadra is obtained.

At least this is how I have understood.
User avatar
Konchog Thogme Jampa
Posts: 1175
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2017 4:48 am
Location: Saha World/Hard to Take

Re: Trekcho rigpa vs thogal rigpa

Post by Konchog Thogme Jampa »

bryandavis wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 8:19 pm Treckcho corresponds to the primordially pure empty aspect of the basis. The path of the four visions (the Lhundrup aspect) is the unity of kadak Lhundrup,and one can not really engage in the path with out the stability of treckcho. Then when the exhaustion / consumation of dharmas is manifest, the primordial pure liberated unified state of Samantabhadra is obtained.

At least this is how I have understood.
:good:
Kai lord
Posts: 1145
Joined: Sun May 15, 2022 2:38 am

Re: Trekcho rigpa vs thogal rigpa

Post by Kai lord »

bryandavis wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 8:19 pm Treckcho corresponds to the primordially pure empty aspect of the basis. The path of the four visions (the Lhundrup aspect) is the unity of kadak Lhundrup,and one can not really engage in the path with out the stability of treckcho. Then when the exhaustion / consumation of dharmas is manifest, the primordial pure liberated unified state of Samantabhadra is obtained.

At least this is how I have understood.
To be honest, I thought he was referring to the knowing and visionary aspects of Rigpa whose object is the basis. Then again there are some scholars and masters who do teach that rigpa is the basis.
Life is like a game, either you win or lose!
Life is like a fight, either you live or die!
Life is like a show, either you laugh or cry!
Life is like a dream, either you know or not!!!
User avatar
futerko
Posts: 1297
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:58 am

Re: Trekcho rigpa vs thogal rigpa

Post by futerko »

The Berzin archive lists three types of rigpa:

Basis rigpa (gzhi’i rig-pa) – the working basis that we all have. Although it pervades all moments of sem, like sesame oil pervades a sesame seed, we normally do not recognize it. The next two are the two aspects of rigpa that we recognize on the path.

Effulgent rigpa (rtsal-gyi rig-pa) – rigpa in its aspect of actively giving rise to and cognizing pure appearances in response to things. Although it has all three aspects of rigpa, the spontaneous establishing aspect is more prominent. We recognize it first.

Essence rigpa (ngo-bo’i rig-pa) – what underlies effulgent rigpa. It is rigpa in its aspect of being the cognitive space (klong, spacious awareness) – referring to other-voidness – that allows for the arising and cognizing of pure appearances in response to things. Although it too has all three aspects of rigpa, the primal purity aspect is more prominent. We recognize it only after recognizing effulgent rigpa.

https://studybuddhism.com/en/advanced-s ... d-dzogchen
Passing By
Posts: 298
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2018 6:49 pm

Re: Trekcho rigpa vs thogal rigpa

Post by Passing By »

bryandavis wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 8:19 pm Treckcho corresponds to the primordially pure empty aspect of the basis. The path of the four visions (the Lhundrup aspect) is the unity of kadak Lhundrup,and one can not really engage in the path with out the stability of treckcho. Then when the exhaustion / consumation of dharmas is manifest, the primordial pure liberated unified state of Samantabhadra is obtained.

At least this is how I have understood.
So it is commonly said, but then, you can't really practice trekcho without understanding experientially that the emptiness also has clarity. Otherwise you cannot self-liberate whatever appears. How I've also understood at any rate.
Kai lord wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:22 am
bryandavis wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 8:19 pm Treckcho corresponds to the primordially pure empty aspect of the basis. The path of the four visions (the Lhundrup aspect) is the unity of kadak Lhundrup,and one can not really engage in the path with out the stability of treckcho. Then when the exhaustion / consumation of dharmas is manifest, the primordial pure liberated unified state of Samantabhadra is obtained.

At least this is how I have understood.
To be honest, I thought he was referring to the knowing and visionary aspects of Rigpa whose object is the basis. Then again there are some scholars and masters who do teach that rigpa is the basis.
Yeah, it also sounded to me like Malcolm was referring to the realized knowing aspect of rigpa. But isn't recognizing that clear, empty knowing also necessary for trekcho, not just thogal?
futerko wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:37 am The Berzin archive lists three types of rigpa:

Basis rigpa (gzhi’i rig-pa) – the working basis that we all have. Although it pervades all moments of sem, like sesame oil pervades a sesame seed, we normally do not recognize it. The next two are the two aspects of rigpa that we recognize on the path.

Effulgent rigpa (rtsal-gyi rig-pa) – rigpa in its aspect of actively giving rise to and cognizing pure appearances in response to things. Although it has all three aspects of rigpa, the spontaneous establishing aspect is more prominent. We recognize it first.

Essence rigpa (ngo-bo’i rig-pa) – what underlies effulgent rigpa. It is rigpa in its aspect of being the cognitive space (klong, spacious awareness) – referring to other-voidness – that allows for the arising and cognizing of pure appearances in response to things. Although it too has all three aspects of rigpa, the primal purity aspect is more prominent. We recognize it only after recognizing effulgent rigpa.

https://studybuddhism.com/en/advanced-s ... d-dzogchen
I see, this kind of clarifies it a bit. Although wouldn't you eventually recognize both kinds of path rigpa regardless of if you practice mainly trekcho or thogal?
Last edited by Passing By on Wed Sep 21, 2022 3:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
futerko
Posts: 1297
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:58 am

Re: Trekcho rigpa vs thogal rigpa

Post by futerko »

Passing By wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 3:13 pm
futerko wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:37 am The Berzin archive lists three types of rigpa:

Basis rigpa (gzhi’i rig-pa) – the working basis that we all have. Although it pervades all moments of sem, like sesame oil pervades a sesame seed, we normally do not recognize it. The next two are the two aspects of rigpa that we recognize on the path.

Effulgent rigpa (rtsal-gyi rig-pa) – rigpa in its aspect of actively giving rise to and cognizing pure appearances in response to things. Although it has all three aspects of rigpa, the spontaneous establishing aspect is more prominent. We recognize it first.

Essence rigpa (ngo-bo’i rig-pa) – what underlies effulgent rigpa. It is rigpa in its aspect of being the cognitive space (klong, spacious awareness) – referring to other-voidness – that allows for the arising and cognizing of pure appearances in response to things. Although it too has all three aspects of rigpa, the primal purity aspect is more prominent. We recognize it only after recognizing effulgent rigpa.

https://studybuddhism.com/en/advanced-s ... d-dzogchen
I see, this kind of clarifies it a bit. Although wouldn't you eventually recognize both kinds of path rigpa regardless of if you practice mainly trekcho or thogal?
Yes, I get the impression they correspond to Guru Garab Dorje's three statements respectively, and with the idea of integration in the final instance, though those with more experience can clarify whether this is the case or not.
Malcolm
Posts: 42974
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Trekcho rigpa vs thogal rigpa

Post by Malcolm »

Jules 09 wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 7:04 pm The practice of trekcho is concerning with cutting through the mind's habitual tendencies to make dualistic distinctions, which are based on concepts.
This idea of “cutting solidity” etc., is how some people explain this term. However, there is an alternate explanation from ChNN, which can also be found in various cycles.

The word “khregs” means “bundle,” “chod” is an intransitive verb which means here unravel or undone—the image Padmasambhava uses is a sheaf of wheat that has fallen apart of its own accord. There is no one to cut anything since the verb is intransitive, meaning the verb has no direct object, thus there is no cutting. ChNN generally translated the meaning of this as “releasing tension,” in other words, to cease grasping thoughts and concepts as they arise.
Malcolm
Posts: 42974
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Trekcho rigpa vs thogal rigpa

Post by Malcolm »

Passing By wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 5:13 pm In the now locked thread, Malcolm mentioned that rigpa is actually subcategorized by trekcho and thogal and that the inseparability of kadak and lhundrub actually corresponds to thogal.

What does trekcho correspond to in this case? It's interesting since trekcho instructions also contain numerous introductions to this inseparability and sustaining of its recognition via the Four Chogzhags or the Nine sets of Three relaxations so it seemed like both had the same rigpa and result.
Kadag and lhundrup are inseparable in both cases. The distinction is whether one is resting for a moment directly in the radiance (mdangs) of rigpa in the context of impure appearances without the famous postures and gazes or pure appearances with them.

The four chogzhags are practiced in both. Simply put, the distinction between the two is impure or pure appearances as the path, leading to slightly different results (dematerialization or great transference).
User avatar
Jules 09
Posts: 438
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:18 pm

Re: Trekcho rigpa vs thogal rigpa

Post by Jules 09 »

Malcolm wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 3:42 pm
Jules 09 wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 7:04 pm The practice of trekcho is concerning with cutting through the mind's habitual tendencies to make dualistic distinctions, which are based on concepts.
This idea of “cutting solidity” etc., is how some people explain this term. However, there is an alternate explanation from ChNN, which can also be found in various cycles.

The word “khregs” means “bundle,” “chod” is an intransitive verb which means here unravel or undone—the image Padmasambhava uses is a sheaf of wheat that has fallen apart of its own accord. There is no one to cut anything since the verb is intransitive, meaning the verb has no direct object, thus there is no cutting. ChNN generally translated the meaning of this as “releasing tension,” in other words, to cease grasping thoughts and concepts as they arise.
I agree with the explanation from ChNN, "releasing tensions" is a good way of putting it. It's not an active process of "cutting."

Maybe a better way of putting it be: releasing the mind's habitual tendencies to make dualistic distinctions, which are based on concepts. In the sense of relaxing the habit of grasping.
Last edited by Jules 09 on Wed Sep 21, 2022 5:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
ThreeVows
Posts: 942
Joined: Mon May 08, 2017 5:54 pm

Re: Trekcho rigpa vs thogal rigpa

Post by ThreeVows »

FWIW, comes to mind, from Longchenpa:

"The appearances of clarity are the primordial wisdom of Thodgal, and The self-present peace [free] from projection and withdrawal Is the spontaneously accomplished emptiness of Thregchod. The aspect of cessation of mind is the Thregchod. The spontaneously accomplished self-clarity is the Thodgal. The union of [both], which is the self-arisen intrinsic wisdom, Is the secret path of Nyingthig [Innermost Essence]. When all the elaborations are completely pacified, At that time the self-awareness intrinsic wisdom will naturally arise. . . . People who cling to Thregchod and Thodgal Separately and practice accordingly Are similar to a blind person examining forms. They have not understood the [meaning of] the ultimate sphere and intrinsic awareness. They are the friends of donkeys. By gaining the experiences of the ultimate nature, the supreme luminous absorption, The attainment of the universal supreme (rnam kun mchog ldan), One perfects the [four visions:] the direct [realization of the ultimate nature], increase [of experiences], perfection [of intrinsic awareness], And dissolution [into dharmatā], And one actualizes the primordial nature."
“Whoever wants to find the wisdom beyond intellect without praying to his guru is like someone waiting for the sun to shine in a cave facing the north. He will never realize appearances and his mind to be one.”
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche
Malcolm
Posts: 42974
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Trekcho rigpa vs thogal rigpa

Post by Malcolm »

Longchenpa also distinguishes the paths of trekcho and thogal in terms of nongradual and gradual respectively.

Seeker12 wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 4:49 pm FWIW, comes to mind, from Longchenpa:

"The appearances of clarity are the primordial wisdom of Thodgal, and The self-present peace [free] from projection and withdrawal Is the spontaneously accomplished emptiness of Thregchod. The aspect of cessation of mind is the Thregchod. The spontaneously accomplished self-clarity is the Thodgal. The union of [both], which is the self-arisen intrinsic wisdom, Is the secret path of Nyingthig [Innermost Essence]. When all the elaborations are completely pacified, At that time the self-awareness intrinsic wisdom will naturally arise. . . . People who cling to Thregchod and Thodgal Separately and practice accordingly Are similar to a blind person examining forms. They have not understood the [meaning of] the ultimate sphere and intrinsic awareness. They are the friends of donkeys. By gaining the experiences of the ultimate nature, the supreme luminous absorption, The attainment of the universal supreme (rnam kun mchog ldan), One perfects the [four visions:] the direct [realization of the ultimate nature], increase [of experiences], perfection [of intrinsic awareness], And dissolution [into dharmatā], And one actualizes the primordial nature."
User avatar
Jules 09
Posts: 438
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:18 pm

Re: Trekcho rigpa vs thogal rigpa

Post by Jules 09 »

Seeker12 wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 4:49 pm FWIW, comes to mind, from Longchenpa:

"The appearances of clarity are the primordial wisdom of Thodgal, and The self-present peace [free] from projection and withdrawal Is the spontaneously accomplished emptiness of Thregchod. The aspect of cessation of mind is the Thregchod. The spontaneously accomplished self-clarity is the Thodgal. The union of [both], which is the self-arisen intrinsic wisdom, Is the secret path of Nyingthig [Innermost Essence]. When all the elaborations are completely pacified, At that time the self-awareness intrinsic wisdom will naturally arise. . . . People who cling to Thregchod and Thodgal Separately and practice accordingly Are similar to a blind person examining forms. They have not understood the [meaning of] the ultimate sphere and intrinsic awareness. They are the friends of donkeys. By gaining the experiences of the ultimate nature, the supreme luminous absorption, The attainment of the universal supreme (rnam kun mchog ldan), One perfects the [four visions:] the direct [realization of the ultimate nature], increase [of experiences], perfection [of intrinsic awareness], And dissolution [into dharmatā], And one actualizes the primordial nature."
The aspect of cessation of mind is the Thregchod.
- Perhaps we can agree that cessation of mind(sem).., means cessation of mental events; i.e. thinking, rnam rtog...

"In the Noble Eight Thousand Verses (Prajnaparamita) the Buddha says:

Subhuti, that being so, this transcendent knowledge fully remains as inconceivable action and thus is not the domain of common thought.
Why is this?
It is because it does not involve the attributes of (dualistic) mind
[sem] and mental events."

- Tsele Natsok Rangdrol,
'The Heart of the Matter'.
User avatar
futerko
Posts: 1297
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:58 am

Re: Trekcho rigpa vs thogal rigpa

Post by futerko »

Jules 09 wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 6:29 pm
Seeker12 wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 4:49 pm FWIW, comes to mind, from Longchenpa:

"The appearances of clarity are the primordial wisdom of Thodgal, and The self-present peace [free] from projection and withdrawal Is the spontaneously accomplished emptiness of Thregchod. The aspect of cessation of mind is the Thregchod. The spontaneously accomplished self-clarity is the Thodgal. The union of [both], which is the self-arisen intrinsic wisdom, Is the secret path of Nyingthig [Innermost Essence]. When all the elaborations are completely pacified, At that time the self-awareness intrinsic wisdom will naturally arise. . . . People who cling to Thregchod and Thodgal Separately and practice accordingly Are similar to a blind person examining forms. They have not understood the [meaning of] the ultimate sphere and intrinsic awareness. They are the friends of donkeys. By gaining the experiences of the ultimate nature, the supreme luminous absorption, The attainment of the universal supreme (rnam kun mchog ldan), One perfects the [four visions:] the direct [realization of the ultimate nature], increase [of experiences], perfection [of intrinsic awareness], And dissolution [into dharmatā], And one actualizes the primordial nature."
The aspect of cessation of mind is the Thregchod.
- Perhaps we can agree that cessation of mind(sem).., means cessation of mental events; i.e. thinking, rnam rtog...

"In the Noble Eight Thousand Verses (Prajnaparamita) the Buddha says:

Subhuti, that being so, this transcendent knowledge fully remains as inconceivable action and thus is not the domain of common thought.
Why is this?
It is because it does not involve the attributes of (dualistic) mind
[sem] and mental events."

- Tsele Natsok Rangdrol,
'The Heart of the Matter'.


David Higgins takes the idea of "common thought" to mean representational thinking, following the Buddhas discourse on name and form - this suggests there is another kind of thought which does not rely on representation - e.g. a critique of the "representation only" school.
User avatar
ThreeVows
Posts: 942
Joined: Mon May 08, 2017 5:54 pm

Re: Trekcho rigpa vs thogal rigpa

Post by ThreeVows »

Jules 09 wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 6:29 pm - Perhaps we can agree that cessation of mind(sem).., means cessation of mental events; i.e. thinking, rnam rtog...
FWIW, again Longchenpa, if it's of interest:
When the turbidity of the mind [sems] and mental factors [sems byung] subsides, luminous primordial wisdom, the nature of the mind, arises from within. To habituate oneself to this is called the path to enlightenment. It is quite simply to persevere in this practice, remaining uninterruptedly, day and night, in a state in which sleepiness and idleness are abandoned. As it is said in the Pancakrama,

"When all activity of mind and mental factors
Comes to complete rest, it is then that
Luminous, primordial wisdom manifests,
Free of concepts, without center or periphery."

In this context, the mind is defined as the cognitions that assume the existence of the three worlds and examine them accordingly. Since they are the turbidity that conceals suchness, if they are made to subside completely, one has access to nonconceptual primordial wisdom. As it is said in the Satyadvayavibhanga,

"The mind and mental factors are the cognitions
That falsely ascribe existence to the triple world."

The detecting cognition [rtog pa] that perceives the general presence of an object when it first sees it is the 'mind'. It is the first moment of knowledge of an utpala lotus (for example). Then, when the particular features of the object are adverted to, there is the mental factor of examination or discernment [dpyod pa]. These are the cognitions of the flower's blue color, its round shape, its pistil and stamens, and so on. As it is said in the Madhyantavibhaga,

"That which sees the thing is consciousness.
Its features then are seen by mental factors."

And as the Abhidharmakosha says, 'Detecting cognition and discernment: coarse and fine'. The detecting cognition and the discernment, which are habitually labeled as mind and mental factors, are arrested in enlightenment. As it is said in the Introduction to the Middle Way,

"The tinder of phenomena is all consumed,
And this is peace, the dharmakaya of the Conquerers.
There is no origin and no cessation.
The mind is stopped, the kaya manifests."

Moreover, when the self-cognizing primordial wisdom is wrapped in the webs of defilement caused by the illusion of duality, it is called 'mind'. For it consists in the nonvirtuous mental factors of detecting cognition and discernment. Liberation from this is called buddhahood. For even though (in that state) an object is known, there is a freedom from duality, as implied in detecting cognition and discernment. As it is said in Praises of the Mind Vajra,

"When it is enveloped in defilement's webs,
"It is what may be called the 'mind'.
But when this from defilement has been freed,
'Buddhahood' it will be named."
“Whoever wants to find the wisdom beyond intellect without praying to his guru is like someone waiting for the sun to shine in a cave facing the north. He will never realize appearances and his mind to be one.”
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche
User avatar
Jules 09
Posts: 438
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:18 pm

Re: Trekcho rigpa vs thogal rigpa

Post by Jules 09 »

Seeker12 wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 7:08 pm
Jules 09 wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 6:29 pm - Perhaps we can agree that cessation of mind(sem).., means cessation of mental events; i.e. thinking, rnam rtog...
FWIW, again Longchenpa, if it's of interest:
When the turbidity of the mind [sems] and mental factors [sems byung] subsides, luminous primordial wisdom, the nature of the mind, arises from within. To habituate oneself to this is called the path to enlightenment. It is quite simply to persevere in this practice, remaining uninterruptedly, day and night, in a state in which sleepiness and idleness are abandoned. As it is said in the Pancakrama,

"When all activity of mind and mental factors
Comes to complete rest, it is then that
Luminous, primordial wisdom manifests,
Free of concepts, without center or periphery."

In this context, the mind is defined as the cognitions that assume the existence of the three worlds and examine them accordingly. Since they are the turbidity that conceals suchness, if they are made to subside completely, one has access to nonconceptual primordial wisdom. As it is said in the Satyadvayavibhanga,

"The mind and mental factors are the cognitions
That falsely ascribe existence to the triple world."

The detecting cognition [rtog pa] that perceives the general presence of an object when it first sees it is the 'mind'. It is the first moment of knowledge of an utpala lotus (for example). Then, when the particular features of the object are adverted to, there is the mental factor of examination or discernment [dpyod pa]. These are the cognitions of the flower's blue color, its round shape, its pistil and stamens, and so on. As it is said in the Madhyantavibhaga,

"That which sees the thing is consciousness.
Its features then are seen by mental factors."

And as the Abhidharmakosha says, 'Detecting cognition and discernment: coarse and fine'. The detecting cognition and the discernment, which are habitually labeled as mind and mental factors, are arrested in enlightenment. As it is said in the Introduction to the Middle Way,

"The tinder of phenomena is all consumed,
And this is peace, the dharmakaya of the Conquerers.
There is no origin and no cessation.
The mind is stopped, the kaya manifests."

Moreover, when the self-cognizing primordial wisdom is wrapped in the webs of defilement caused by the illusion of duality, it is called 'mind'. For it consists in the nonvirtuous mental factors of detecting cognition and discernment. Liberation from this is called buddhahood. For even though (in that state) an object is known, there is a freedom from duality, as implied in detecting cognition and discernment. As it is said in Praises of the Mind Vajra,

"When it is enveloped in defilement's webs,
"It is what may be called the 'mind'.
But when this from defilement has been freed,
'Buddhahood' it will be named."
The detecting cognition [rtog pa] that perceives the general presence of an object when it first sees it is the 'mind'.


rtog pa means thought

- Thanks. :good:
User avatar
Jules 09
Posts: 438
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:18 pm

Re: Trekcho rigpa vs thogal rigpa

Post by Jules 09 »

Seeker12 wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 7:08 pm
Jules 09 wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 6:29 pm - Perhaps we can agree that cessation of mind(sem).., means cessation of mental events; i.e. thinking, rnam rtog...
FWIW, again Longchenpa, if it's of interest:
When the turbidity of the mind [sems] and mental factors [sems byung] subsides, luminous primordial wisdom, the nature of the mind, arises from within. To habituate oneself to this is called the path to enlightenment. It is quite simply to persevere in this practice, remaining uninterruptedly, day and night, in a state in which sleepiness and idleness are abandoned. As it is said in the Pancakrama,

"When all activity of mind and mental factors
Comes to complete rest, it is then that
Luminous, primordial wisdom manifests,
Free of concepts, without center or periphery."

In this context, the mind is defined as the cognitions that assume the existence of the three worlds and examine them accordingly. Since they are the turbidity that conceals suchness, if they are made to subside completely, one has access to nonconceptual primordial wisdom. As it is said in the Satyadvayavibhanga,

"The mind and mental factors are the cognitions
That falsely ascribe existence to the triple world."

The detecting cognition [rtog pa] that perceives the general presence of an object when it first sees it is the 'mind'. It is the first moment of knowledge of an utpala lotus (for example). Then, when the particular features of the object are adverted to, there is the mental factor of examination or discernment [dpyod pa]. These are the cognitions of the flower's blue color, its round shape, its pistil and stamens, and so on. As it is said in the Madhyantavibhaga,

"That which sees the thing is consciousness.
Its features then are seen by mental factors."

And as the Abhidharmakosha says, 'Detecting cognition and discernment: coarse and fine'. The detecting cognition and the discernment, which are habitually labeled as mind and mental factors, are arrested in enlightenment. As it is said in the Introduction to the Middle Way,

"The tinder of phenomena is all consumed,
And this is peace, the dharmakaya of the Conquerers.
There is no origin and no cessation.
The mind is stopped, the kaya manifests."

Moreover, when the self-cognizing primordial wisdom is wrapped in the webs of defilement caused by the illusion of duality, it is called 'mind'. For it consists in the nonvirtuous mental factors of detecting cognition and discernment. Liberation from this is called buddhahood. For even though (in that state) an object is known, there is a freedom from duality, as implied in detecting cognition and discernment. As it is said in Praises of the Mind Vajra,

"When it is enveloped in defilement's webs,
"It is what may be called the 'mind'.
But when this from defilement has been freed,
'Buddhahood' it will be named."
- Please could you give a reference to the text and page numbers these citations are from?
User avatar
ThreeVows
Posts: 942
Joined: Mon May 08, 2017 5:54 pm

Re: Trekcho rigpa vs thogal rigpa

Post by ThreeVows »

Jules 09 wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 8:47 pm - Please could you give a reference to the text and page numbers these citations are from?
See note 29

https://books.google.com/books?id=dIv-D ... ma&f=false

This is Longchenpa's autocommentary.
“Whoever wants to find the wisdom beyond intellect without praying to his guru is like someone waiting for the sun to shine in a cave facing the north. He will never realize appearances and his mind to be one.”
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche
User avatar
Jules 09
Posts: 438
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:18 pm

Re: Trekcho rigpa vs thogal rigpa

Post by Jules 09 »

Seeker12 wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:41 pm
Jules 09 wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 8:47 pm - Please could you give a reference to the text and page numbers these citations are from?
See note 29

https://books.google.com/books?id=dIv-D ... ma&f=false

This is Longchenpa's autocommentary.
- Thanks.
Locked

Return to “Dzogchen”