Compass of Zen Teaching

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clyde
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Compass of Zen Teaching

Post by clyde »

I had not heard of the Compass of Zen Teaching by Zen Master Seung Sahn until it was mentioned here:
KeithA wrote: Sun Sep 11, 2022 4:58 pm The actual Compass of Zen document referred to in the story can be found here.
I began reading. It starts:
The Purpose of Buddhism

First attain enlightenment,
then instruct all creatures.
This wonderfully describes the essential purpose of Buddhism and sets a noble ideal for all Buddhists to uphold.
“Enlightenment means to see what harm you are involved in and to renounce it.” David Brazier, The New Buddhism

“The most straightforward advice on awakening enlightened mind is this: practice not causing harm to anyone—yourself or others—and every day, do what you can to be helpful.” Pema Chodron, “What to Do When the Going Gets Rough”
Nicholas2727
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Re: Compass of Zen Teaching

Post by Nicholas2727 »

If you have not read the entire text I highly suggest it. It lays out the foundational parts of Buddhism, then goes into Mahayana focusing primarily on prajnaparamita, the Lotus Sutra and Avatamsaka Sutra teachings, then ends with Zen teachings. Laying it out this way helps build each block on the Buddhist path leading finally to Zen.
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seeker242
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Re: Compass of Zen Teaching

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clyde wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 10:20 pm I had not heard of the Compass of Zen Teaching by Zen Master Seung Sahn until it was mentioned here:
Always thought this book was his best book out of all of them. :smile:
One should not kill any living being, nor cause it to be killed, nor should one incite any other to kill. Do never injure any being, whether strong or weak, in this entire universe!
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clyde
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Re: Compass of Zen Teaching

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Yes, I have continued to read and study the text.

After noting The Divisions of Buddhism: Hinayana Buddhism, Mahayana Buddhism, and Zen Buddhism, Zen Master Seung Sahn presents The Structure of Buddhism based on the Three Treasures: the Buddha, the Dharma, and the Sangha. He notes how each contributes: faith, understanding, and practice.

Excellent exposition!
“Enlightenment means to see what harm you are involved in and to renounce it.” David Brazier, The New Buddhism

“The most straightforward advice on awakening enlightened mind is this: practice not causing harm to anyone—yourself or others—and every day, do what you can to be helpful.” Pema Chodron, “What to Do When the Going Gets Rough”
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clyde
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Re: Compass of Zen Teaching

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Here’s something unexpected. Later Zen Master Seung Sahn writes:
The Three Marks of Existence

All compound things are impermanent.
All dharmas are without self-nature.
Nirvana is perfect stillness.
What’s interesting here is that the usual third mark is dukkha, suffering. I’ve seen some references to a Fourth Mark as Nirvana, but not presented like this as the third mark. This points to samsara/nirvana as not-two.

And I rather prefer this approach. While all existent things (dharmas) are impermanent and without self-nature, only sentient beings experience suffering; but all dharmas share “perfect stillness”. So perhaps this is a better expression of the Three Marks.
“Enlightenment means to see what harm you are involved in and to renounce it.” David Brazier, The New Buddhism

“The most straightforward advice on awakening enlightened mind is this: practice not causing harm to anyone—yourself or others—and every day, do what you can to be helpful.” Pema Chodron, “What to Do When the Going Gets Rough”
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Re: Compass of Zen Teaching

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

Compassion is 70% compass.
EMPTIFUL.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
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KeithA
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Re: Compass of Zen Teaching

Post by KeithA »

It is credit to the students who were putting his thoughts and words to paper, because early on, ZMSS didn't speak any English. He worked very hard to learn the language, but the intricacies of expressing the Dharma was due to the students being able to understand what he was trying say.

_/|\_
When walking, standing, sitting, lying down, speaking,
being silent, moving, being still.
At all times, in all places, without interruption - what is this?
One mind is infinite kalpas.

New Haven Zen Center
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clyde
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Re: Compass of Zen Teaching

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I’m still working on the first several pages before he summarizes several sutras key to Zen teachings, including the Heart Sutra, the Diamond Sutra, and more. WOW!

But first, this is the top of page 5:
page 5.jpg
page 5.jpg (22.87 KiB) Viewed 1266 times
In studying this I noted the symbols in the center are not translated. Can anyone translate what is written there?

The other thing I noticed is that the symbols for Stability are the same for external phenomena and mind - but in the column of “Aspects of the mind” the symbols for Arising are the same as the symbols for Stability. HUH? Can anyone explain how this is?
“Enlightenment means to see what harm you are involved in and to renounce it.” David Brazier, The New Buddhism

“The most straightforward advice on awakening enlightened mind is this: practice not causing harm to anyone—yourself or others—and every day, do what you can to be helpful.” Pema Chodron, “What to Do When the Going Gets Rough”
ItsRaining
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Re: Compass of Zen Teaching

Post by ItsRaining »

clyde wrote: Thu Sep 15, 2022 6:52 pm I’m still working on the first several pages before he summarizes several sutras key to Zen teachings, including the Heart Sutra, the Diamond Sutra, and more. WOW!

But first, this is the top of page 5:

page 5.jpg

In studying this I noted the symbols in the center are not translated. Can anyone translate what is written there?

The other thing I noticed is that the symbols for Stability are the same for external phenomena and mind - but in the column of “Aspects of the mind” the symbols for Arising are the same as the symbols for Stability. HUH? Can anyone explain how this is?
Middle says “view of no self”. On the right 住 or abide is mistakenly written instead of 生 or arise.
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clyde
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Re: Compass of Zen Teaching

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ItsRaining wrote: Thu Sep 15, 2022 10:15 pm Middle says “view of no self”. On the right 住 or abide is mistakenly written instead of 生 or arise.
ItsRaining, Thank you.
“Enlightenment means to see what harm you are involved in and to renounce it.” David Brazier, The New Buddhism

“The most straightforward advice on awakening enlightened mind is this: practice not causing harm to anyone—yourself or others—and every day, do what you can to be helpful.” Pema Chodron, “What to Do When the Going Gets Rough”
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clyde
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Re: Compass of Zen Teaching

Post by clyde »

I have another question. Between pages 12 and 13 are three unnumbered pages. Below is the first:
Theories.jpg
Theories.jpg (91.6 KiB) Viewed 1210 times
On the far right is the list of “Six Ways of Samsara” and each of the six domains has a number value associated with it. Below that are two examples(?) A and B. But of what?
“Enlightenment means to see what harm you are involved in and to renounce it.” David Brazier, The New Buddhism

“The most straightforward advice on awakening enlightened mind is this: practice not causing harm to anyone—yourself or others—and every day, do what you can to be helpful.” Pema Chodron, “What to Do When the Going Gets Rough”
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Re: Compass of Zen Teaching

Post by narhwal90 »

In my edition these graphics are title pages of each chapter, what do you think of the material inside?
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clyde
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Re: Compass of Zen Teaching

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narhwal90 wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2022 2:03 pm In my edition these graphics are title pages of each chapter, what do you think of the material inside?
I’m not certain what you’re asking. In general, it’s a wonderful summary of Buddhism with some original insights and a few unexpected twists. But I haven’t begun to study the next section on Zen Buddhism.
“Enlightenment means to see what harm you are involved in and to renounce it.” David Brazier, The New Buddhism

“The most straightforward advice on awakening enlightened mind is this: practice not causing harm to anyone—yourself or others—and every day, do what you can to be helpful.” Pema Chodron, “What to Do When the Going Gets Rough”
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KeithA
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Re: Compass of Zen Teaching

Post by KeithA »

clyde wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2022 10:25 pm
narhwal90 wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2022 2:03 pm In my edition these graphics are title pages of each chapter, what do you think of the material inside?
I’m not certain what you’re asking. In general, it’s a wonderful summary of Buddhism with some original insights and a few unexpected twists. But I haven’t begun to study the next section on Zen Buddhism.
So, the document Clyde is reading is the Compass of Zen by ZMSS in it's original form. There is also a book called "The Compass of Zen", by ZMSS. Each chapter references the original Compass.

I will ask my teacher about your question, Clyde. I don't know exactly what those equations refer to.

_/|\_
Keith
When walking, standing, sitting, lying down, speaking,
being silent, moving, being still.
At all times, in all places, without interruption - what is this?
One mind is infinite kalpas.

New Haven Zen Center
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KeithA
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Re: Compass of Zen Teaching

Post by KeithA »

clyde wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2022 5:01 am I have another question. Between pages 12 and 13 are three unnumbered pages. Below is the first:

Theories.jpg

On the far right is the list of “Six Ways of Samsara” and each of the six domains has a number value associated with it. Below that are two examples(?) A and B. But of what?
My teacher said pretty much what I said above, that ZMSS didn't speak English around this time, and was relying on students to translate Chinese characters to English. According to my teacher, the math part was an "inelegant" way to simplify the teaching of karma. To quote him directly: "In any case. it's framed as simple math. If you think of karma points, + for good actions and - for bad actions, then you add them up and voila! you get a rebirth body."

_/|\_
Keith
When walking, standing, sitting, lying down, speaking,
being silent, moving, being still.
At all times, in all places, without interruption - what is this?
One mind is infinite kalpas.

New Haven Zen Center
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clyde
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Re: Compass of Zen Teaching

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Keith, Thank you and your teacher. I have to agree that using numerical values for ‘karma points’ is “inelegant” (other words come to mind ;) ) while the general principle is standard Buddhism. ZMSS actually states it clearly at the bottom of page 5:
A good cause leads to a good result. A bad cause leads to a bad result.
“Enlightenment means to see what harm you are involved in and to renounce it.” David Brazier, The New Buddhism

“The most straightforward advice on awakening enlightened mind is this: practice not causing harm to anyone—yourself or others—and every day, do what you can to be helpful.” Pema Chodron, “What to Do When the Going Gets Rough”
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clyde
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Re: Compass of Zen Teaching

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I have another question.

On page 15 ZMSS lists “Three occasions of transmission from Mind to Mind.” All three are about the ‘transmission’ from Buddha to Mahakashyapa. The second one is the traditional Zen origination story of Buddha holding up a flower, but I’m unfamiliar with the first, “”Sharing the cushion with Mahakashyapa in front of the Pagoda of Many Children,” and the third, “When he sat with folded knees on the bank of the Niranjana River.”

Is anyone familiar with these stories and know where I might read about these events?
“Enlightenment means to see what harm you are involved in and to renounce it.” David Brazier, The New Buddhism

“The most straightforward advice on awakening enlightened mind is this: practice not causing harm to anyone—yourself or others—and every day, do what you can to be helpful.” Pema Chodron, “What to Do When the Going Gets Rough”
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KeithA
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Re: Compass of Zen Teaching

Post by KeithA »

clyde wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 5:59 am I have another question.

On page 15 ZMSS lists “Three occasions of transmission from Mind to Mind.” All three are about the ‘transmission’ from Buddha to Mahakashyapa. The second one is the traditional Zen origination story of Buddha holding up a flower, but I’m unfamiliar with the first, “”Sharing the cushion with Mahakashyapa in front of the Pagoda of Many Children,” and the third, “When he sat with folded knees on the bank of the Niranjana River.”

Is anyone familiar with these stories and know where I might read about these events?
Some of that can be found here.
When walking, standing, sitting, lying down, speaking,
being silent, moving, being still.
At all times, in all places, without interruption - what is this?
One mind is infinite kalpas.

New Haven Zen Center
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KeithA
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Re: Compass of Zen Teaching

Post by KeithA »

KeithA wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 11:37 pm
clyde wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 5:59 am I have another question.

On page 15 ZMSS lists “Three occasions of transmission from Mind to Mind.” All three are about the ‘transmission’ from Buddha to Mahakashyapa. The second one is the traditional Zen origination story of Buddha holding up a flower, but I’m unfamiliar with the first, “”Sharing the cushion with Mahakashyapa in front of the Pagoda of Many Children,” and the third, “When he sat with folded knees on the bank of the Niranjana River.”

Is anyone familiar with these stories and know where I might read about these events?
Some of that can be found here.
I am guessing the third event was translated in correctly in the original compass.
When walking, standing, sitting, lying down, speaking,
being silent, moving, being still.
At all times, in all places, without interruption - what is this?
One mind is infinite kalpas.

New Haven Zen Center
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clyde
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Re: Compass of Zen Teaching

Post by clyde »

Keith, Thank you again. I was unfamiliar with these stories.
“Enlightenment means to see what harm you are involved in and to renounce it.” David Brazier, The New Buddhism

“The most straightforward advice on awakening enlightened mind is this: practice not causing harm to anyone—yourself or others—and every day, do what you can to be helpful.” Pema Chodron, “What to Do When the Going Gets Rough”
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