Going for refuge and mental health disorder

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Pårl
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Going for refuge and mental health disorder

Post by Pårl »

Good evening everyone,

I have slowly been working my towards the step of formally going for refuge. Attending retreats, living my life correctly, studying the dharma. I have one quite major concern, I have Bipolar Disorder (Type 2). Is it still possible for someone with a mood disorder to take take refuge and live accordingly?

I would appreciate other people's thoughts or insight on this topic.

Humble thanks for any responses.

Paul
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: Going for refuge and mental health disorder

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

I have known people who had bipolar who were practicing Buddhists.
It didn’t change the fact of having B/P
but the practice of sitting meditation seemed to help them not cling too much to the experience of being either up or down, if that makes sense.
EMPTIFUL.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
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Könchok Thrinley
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Re: Going for refuge and mental health disorder

Post by Könchok Thrinley »

Pårl wrote: Sat Sep 10, 2022 9:01 pm Good evening everyone,

I have slowly been working my towards the step of formally going for refuge. Attending retreats, living my life correctly, studying the dharma. I have one quite major concern, I have Bipolar Disorder (Type 2). Is it still possible for someone with a mood disorder to take take refuge and live accordingly?

I would appreciate other people's thoughts or insight on this topic.

Humble thanks for any responses.

Paul
Yes, it is.

We have to get rid of the idea that we all have to be yogis in the mountains meditating 24/7 or powerful ngakpas performing rituals or pure monks studying all day.

The heart of the dharma is to avoid harming other beings, to engage in virtuouse activities, and to tame our minds. Buddha himself said so. And you can do this in most circumstances. Especially the first one.

So many students of Buddha in Buddha's time just tried to live ethically, performed virtuous actions in order to have better rebirth, or to purify past negative karma.

I am not sure if you can do "meditation practice" in the usuall manner but you can for sure take refuge, avoid harming others and try performing virtuous deeds. That itself is a huge chunk of the path. And if done with the correct motivation of achieving enlightenment for the sake of others, it for sure leads in that very direction.

If due to your illness you fail you just pick yourself up when you are able, confess without feeling guilt and try doing it better next time. That is how all of us walk the path, constantly falling down and picking ourselves up every single time hoping to make this existence as fruitful as we can.

That is my general view, but I am no master and defintively not a doctor. So take refuge, take upasaka vows no need to worry about that. Concerning other things consult a master you trust and your doctor.
“Observing samaya involves to remain inseparable from the union of wisdom and compassion at all times, to sustain mindfulness, and to put into practice the guru’s instructions”. Garchen Rinpoche

For those who do virtuous actions,
goodness is what comes to pass.
For those who do non-virtuous actions,
that becomes suffering indeed.

- Arya Sanghata Sutra
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Pårl
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Re: Going for refuge and mental health disorder

Post by Pårl »

Thank you both for your replies. That gives me renewed motivation. I have yet to encounter a hurdle I could not overcome and I'm very active in my local sangha. I would like to think my behavior would be judged be virtuous; maybe it doesn't work out that way, but that is my intention.

It is nice to hear that other people with mood disorders are able to live their lives with the aim of achieving enlightment for others.

I will continue to walk the path.

Thanks!
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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: Going for refuge and mental health disorder

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

Pårl wrote: Sat Sep 10, 2022 9:01 pm Good evening everyone,

I have slowly been working my towards the step of formally going for refuge. Attending retreats, living my life correctly, studying the dharma. I have one quite major concern, I have Bipolar Disorder (Type 2). Is it still possible for someone with a mood disorder to take take refuge and live accordingly?

I would appreciate other people's thoughts or insight on this topic.

Humble thanks for any responses.

Paul
Absolutely, IME the pain of suffering what we term mental health disorders in this culture can actually be a seed of compassion, and even Bodhicitta.

No one who is under the sway of the afflictions is truly “healthy” in Dharma terms, so IMO there is no reason whatsoever for you to feel that you are somehow lacking for Dharma practice.

While you have your particular struggles, in the world of Dharma (well and in general) I advocate letting go of pathologizing yourself. Of course do your treatment and keep up your mental health prioritized, but keep in mind in the Buddhist view your disorder is just a certain configuration of attachment, ignorance and aversion, neither something to be ashamed of nor something to overly identify with.

Personally I view maintaining my mental health as an indispensable preliminary practice.

In other words, you are not broken or uniquely limited somehow but are simply a struggling human being with your own karmic setup and as such, perfectly suited for Dharma practice.

I have a good friend who is a developed long term practitioner, a resource to our Dharma community, and is
Bipolar 2, he is a wonderful human being and an inspiration to many people.

This article is very involved, and written on the side of professionals, but might be if use to you on this question, as regards your own “history of sanity”: https://windhorsecommunityservices.com/ ... of-sanity/

In this culture we are basically encouraged to identify with our history of pain, but this ultimately is a choice, and we can choose otherwise.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared

-Khunu Lama
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Pårl
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Re: Going for refuge and mental health disorder

Post by Pårl »

Thanks Johnny Dangerous - extremely insightful. I will check out the link you posted.

It is very encouraging to hear these positive viewpoints and perspectives. That's how I try to live: positively. I'm not no longer sure if I found the dharma or it found it me. But it either is seems to "fit" my lived experience, but like anyone I need reassurance as I move along the path.

Thanks again everyone.
genkaku.linrx
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Re: Going for refuge and mental health disorder

Post by genkaku.linrx »

I was diagnosed with depression in 2011, bipolar in 2018 and schizoaffective disorder in 2019. I took my refuge and training precepts at a local monastery and it has helped me cope with thoughts of self harm and ill will towards oneself and other sentient beings. Having mental illness has affected my ability to practise vipassana meditation. In the early 2000s I was able to experience meditative blisses during an ordinary 45 minute sitting session, but after I was diagnosed with mental illness, the most I can do is to practise Metta and breathing meditation for the purpose of relaxation. Still, this is better than totally no meditation and no refuge at all. It is my opinion that Buddhism is beneficial to anyone with mental illness as long as we do not push ourselves to extremes. :meditate: I wish you great fun in whatever you choose to pursue, whether refuge or precepts.
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It'sYa1UPBoy
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Re: Going for refuge and mental health disorder

Post by It'sYa1UPBoy »

To "go for refuge" does not necessarily imply monastic or priestly ordination. To take refuge in the Buddha, Dharma, and Sangha is simply to dedicate yourself, publicly or privately, to the Buddhadharma. Anyone who is capable of understanding the basics of the Buddhadharma and capable of taking refuge even silently and mentally, may do so. For example, physical health issues preclude me from becoming a monastic, and a lack of temples and poor internet prevent me from publicly connecting to a like-minded sangha, but I can nonetheless privately take refuge.
Tez
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Re: Going for refuge and mental health disorder

Post by Tez »

Pårl wrote: Sat Sep 10, 2022 9:01 pm Good evening everyone,

I have slowly been working my towards the step of formally going for refuge. Attending retreats, living my life correctly, studying the dharma. I have one quite major concern, I have Bipolar Disorder (Type 2). Is it still possible for someone with a mood disorder to take take refuge and live accordingly?

I would appreciate other people's thoughts or insight on this topic.

Humble thanks for any responses.

Paul
I understand the challenge. I have bipolar type 2 as well, along with having ADHD and some other issues around mental health and being neurodiverse. Sometimes I feel great bouts of intense emotion, which is usually related to being manic. I do worry that my recent enthusiasm and belief in buddhism is driven in part by my bipolar, and it's certainly something I've got to be mindful of (especially when I'm in a bookshop and end up buying a ton of books :tongue:) Despite these concerns I'm not letting it dissuade me from my journey. Finding Buddhism has been one of the most meaningful and fulfilling things I've ever had in my life, and my mental health doesn't change that. It's an interesting topic, being a Buddhist with mental ill health, and it's good to bring it up.

My advice is to just keep walking the path at your own pace. It sounds like things are going well and there's no need to pressure yourself to take steps you're not ready for. Are you concerned about making a commitment to being a buddhist? Because I thought taking refuge was quite a straight forward affirmation of being a Buddhist that took a few moments and could be done either in a formal way with others or privately. I might have heard about committing to the 5 precepts as being more serious, but I'm still new and not sure about all these things.

If you ever want to talk about bipolar and the challenges we have DM me anytime
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Pårl
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Re: Going for refuge and mental health disorder

Post by Pårl »

Hi Tez,

Sorry for not responding to your post sooner. It's nice to hear from someone in a similar space to me. And don't talk to me about books... ;)

For me going for refuge feels like a big steps and something I want do in a meaningful way. I need to think more deeply about what going for refuge means for me specifically. It's something I am taking seriously. That's just me.

Yes, I agree with all the other posters in this thread. Buddhism is a great help for people in all sorts of situations or going through different life experiences. It continues to be a steadying force in my life and provides me with the motivation to set out and achieve life goals. It helps lower the highs and reduce the severity of the lows.

It is nice to hear from Tez, and yes, sure, send me a DM. It would be nice to hear from you.

P.
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