An Ode to Not Meditating

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clyde
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An Ode to Not Meditating

Post by clyde »

Just because . . .

An Ode to Not Meditating
“Enlightenment means to see what harm you are involved in and to renounce it.” David Brazier, The New Buddhism

“The most straightforward advice on awakening enlightened mind is this: practice not causing harm to anyone—yourself or others—and every day, do what you can to be helpful.” Pema Chodron, “What to Do When the Going Gets Rough”
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Kim O'Hara
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Re: An Ode to Not Meditating

Post by Kim O'Hara »

:thumbsup:

It reminds me of (real and fictional) people I've known who have preferred to stay off their meds because their meds made them feel stupid and dopey. Better to a bit crazy but fully alive, they reckoned.

:juggling:
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narhwal90
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Re: An Ode to Not Meditating

Post by narhwal90 »

Yeah because the world is better served by me being dragged around by my thoughts and impulses... 🙄
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KeithA
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Re: An Ode to Not Meditating

Post by KeithA »

clyde wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 10:46 pm Just because . . .

An Ode to Not Meditating
Eh, I was kind of entertained by that...and I can identify a bit. It's kind of like when the guy in the Matrix is eating the steak and knows it's not real. Ignorance is truly bliss. Of course, the author isn't fooled. The toothpaste is out of the tube, and can't be put back in. Sometimes I joke that I wish I never heard about the Four Noble Truths. There is just no escaping it. Samsara is awful.

And yet...had I not heard about it, I would probably be dead.

_/|\_
Keith
When walking, standing, sitting, lying down, speaking,
being silent, moving, being still.
At all times, in all places, without interruption - what is this?
One mind is infinite kalpas.

New Haven Zen Center
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Astus
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Re: An Ode to Not Meditating

Post by Astus »

“Good friends, one’s enlightenment (one’s Way, dao) must flow freely. How could it be stagnated? When the mind does not reside in the dharmas, one’s enlightenment flows freely. For the mind to reside in the dharmas is called ‘fettering oneself.’ If you say that always sitting without moving is it, then you’re just like Śāriputra meditating in the forest, for which he was scolded by Vimalakīrti!
“Good friends, there are also those who teach meditation [in terms of ] viewing the mind, contemplating tranquility, motionlessness, and nonactivation. You are supposed to make an effort on the basis of these. These deluded people do not understand, and in their grasping become mixed up like all of you here. You should understand that such superficial teachings are greatly mistaken!”

(Platform Sutra, ch 4, BDK ed, p 43)

“There are a bunch of blind shavepates who, having stuff ed themselves with food, sit down to meditate and practice contemplation. Arresting the fl ow of thought they don’t let it rise; they hate noise and seek stillness. Th is is the method of the heretics. A patriarch said, ‘If you stop the mind to look at stillness, arouse the mind to illumine outside, control the mind to clarify inside, concentrate the mind to enter samādhi — all such [practices] as these are artificial striving.’”
(Record of Linji, tr Sasaki, p 17)

“Although a great many people practice zazen, almost all of them practice in the way of ordinary people, Hinayana practitioners, or bodhisattvas with provisional Mahayana understanding. Those who understand jijuyu--zanmai as the true enlightenment of all buddhas are very few.
That is why some hurry on their way to gain enlightenment by wrestling with koans. Some struggle within themselves, searching for the subject that sees and hears.
Some try to rid themselves of their delusory thoughts in order to reach a pleasant place of no-mind, no-thought. Many other methods of practicing zazen were advocated by various teachers in the Song, Yuan, and Ming dynasties in China. But, it appears that fewer than one in a hundred knew the true samadhi transmitted by the buddhas and ancestors.”

(Jijuyu-Zanmai, in Heart of Zen, p 41)

'"Sitting" meditation means that you maintain a calm and steady mind while entrusting every single thing to Juingong, with the faith that Juingong is the source and destination of all things. Thus "sitting" meditation is possible in any circumstance - it is the mind that sits, not the body. As long as you let go and entrust with belief, your daily life itself can be meditation.
When some people first hear about letting go, it seems too ambiguous or difficult. They feel uncertain about what to do when they hear about letting go, because no method or detailed instruction is given. You may feel that you have to use sitting meditation in order to practice. However, your mind doesn't sit just because your body does. Meditation is done through mind, not through the body. You have to begin by taking care of problems through mind. You're doing things backward if you're trying to use your body to grasp your mind.
From the very beginning, you have to practice through mind. This mind should be your fundamental mind, not the false self, not "I." If you're trying to rely upon something other than mind, it's like trying to hold a shadow. Your basic direction is already wrong, so you can't avoid going astray. This is why I don't give people the traditional hwadus to practice with.
Calm and steady practice, together with deep and sincere faith, is itself meditation. This can also be called true meditation, where you do not have even the thoughts "I'm doing...," or "I was sitting in meditation." It is also living meditation: you can practice in whatever circumstances you find yourself.
Light the lantern of your mind, and keep it bright every single day. Seon is nothing other than this. In your daily life, if you do not give rise to the illusion of "I," if you entrust everything to Juingong, and if your mind is completely unshakable, regardless of whether you find yourself in heaven or in hell, then this is true meditation.'

(No River to Cross by Zen Master Daehaeng, p 53-54)

"Good sons, when you know illusion, you will immediately be free, without devising expedient means. Freedom from illusion is in itself enlightenment, and there are no stages. All Bodhisattvas and sentient beings of the degenerate age who practice like this will be permanently free from all illusion."
(The Sutra of Perfect Enlightenment, ch 2)

'How should the venerable monks understand this? Not accomplishing it by skill-in-means is also without gradual stages. Where was the meaning of that ancient? If this is understood, then all the Buddhas are forever in ones sight. If not understood, do not fall to discussing The Sutra of Full Awakening. Now the Buddhadharma, from of old until today, has never not been in full view. All worthy monks in all times have collectively inherited this powerful light, so it is necessary to have a great root of faith, so that the lotus can begin to rise. Unable to see the Buddhas, astute practioners crossing to the other shore are capable of being useful as vessels of the Dharma. Even if not endowed with other virtues, those of long practice in purifying karma have to be like a big butcher throwing down his knife and testify to the fruits of arhatship, beginning like this straightaway. Therefore an oldie said that if one joins the ranks of the Buddhists, then straightaway pass it on to ordinary folk.'
(Records of the Transmission of the Lamp, vol 6, 25.885)

'The sutra says that when we recognize illusions, we should detach ourselves from them without the use of expedient means. How can we perceive illusions as illusions? What methods can practitioners use to progress through these four levels?
First, we must settle our minds. This method is known as “stilling the mind.” In order to see illusion as illusion, we must be mentally calm. Once this is achieved, we can effectively use the second method of practice: contemplating the self and worldly phenomena, or worldly dharmas. It is extremely difficult to detach oneself from the body, mind, and worldly phenomena without practicing these two methods.'

(Complete Enlightenment: Zen Comments on the Sutra of Complete Enlightenment by Ch’an Master Sheng Yen, p 116)
1 Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.


1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"
White Lotus
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Re: An Ode to Not Meditating

Post by White Lotus »

When “rest” is attained all becomes meditation. Work is a pleasure. All is at rest. Pain is spicy.

Rest is not the abscence of activity. It is a state. No talk of being or non being. Meditation is no longer necessary, but becomes a pleasure and part of rest. Everything has become rest.

Who rests? I do not know.

Have a nice day. Rgds, Tom.

Ps Astus is your third point about non meditation (in your footnote). TC
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.
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KeithA
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Re: An Ode to Not Meditating

Post by KeithA »

clyde wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 10:46 pm Just because . . .

An Ode to Not Meditating
As always, there is a Middle Path. As someone noted on here recently, the plane can't fly forever. Sometimes, it has to land and refuel.

Our world is better served by people spending a little time getting a Dharma fill up. :)

_/|\_
When walking, standing, sitting, lying down, speaking,
being silent, moving, being still.
At all times, in all places, without interruption - what is this?
One mind is infinite kalpas.

New Haven Zen Center
White Lotus
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Re: An Ode to Not Meditating

Post by White Lotus »

But this is just it: samsara isn’t awful, it’s great. It’s attitude that is awful. Pain is reasonable. Samsara truly is nirvana. There’s nothing to realise or attain: it’s always being like this. You are in nirvana.

Pain is necessary, like the hot spice in food. We are frightened by pain, but if you look at your pain it is not as horrendous as you thought. It is reasonable.

When you have pain that is great because you are in a place where you can examine it. Pain is bad, but doesn’t have to cause suffering especially if you see it as it really is. That can be a source of joy.

I realise that this Panglossian approach isn’t for everyone, but it has been my own experience for a while now.

I hope this is not unhelpful.

Rgds, Tom.
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.
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bowsamic
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Re: An Ode to Not Meditating

Post by bowsamic »

I did eventually quit meditation, for now even Buddhism in general, partly because my psychotherapist said something to me which was, in the end, quite true. I was using Zen, or Buddhism in general as yet another escape from the difficult feelings and situations in my life that I am too scared to confront and fix. Some other things I used: various other hobbies, video games (from a too young age, escaping into virtual worlds), drugs...

Buddhism might be perhaps the worst of those things I did to myself in terms of building psychological barriers, since it is easy to convince yourself that while bound to samsara there is no point to trying to improve your life or to analyse it using anything other than the language of Buddhism. Fatalism easily follows, for me at least. It was kind of like a psychological version of climate doomerism. It has also left me with some psychological "scars", for example, I find it detestable for me to express anger now, which has led to some psychological issues. I try to express anger more freely now.

I often hear a lot of people say that mental health issues should be resolved before attempting a serious Buddhist practise, and I guess this is why. If you don't, spiritual bypassing is likely inevitable. Spiritual bypassing is also basically impossible to break out of while continuing to practise, since any effort in any direction increases it.

Regarding the article posted, it seems a little too much like the author is maintaining a sense that they are doing or achieving something. Their explanation of daily life off the cushion still sounds a little bit too "meditative" for me. That's a little bit of a red flag, for me. It sounds like what I would say to myself if I wanted to think I'd have achieved or attained something with my practise. Truly leaving meditation, that's what I did, where I look back on Zen texts and have literally no idea what any of it means and no idea how I felt such deep understanding and compassion. I completely returned to the samsaric life, enjoying it again, hating it again, getting wrapped up in the normal human bs without any wisdom into it. I forgot the four noble truths. That is truly "not meditating".
To be or not to be, that is the question…
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Re: An Ode to Not Meditating

Post by Knotty Veneer »

Well everyone goes through periods of staleness with practice but I think the article might be better titled An Ode to Not Meditating Properly.

Using meditation as a sedative to make samsara more bearable, or trying to use meditation for any purpose at all, is bound to end in failure and disillusionment.

The mindfulness movement has missold meditation as a remedy that makes suffering go away, and, it's true, most of us come to practice in the hope of that. Mature practice though knows that it works in a different way, as White Lotus points out, suffering and pain become workable with when you stop wishing them away but they do not disappear.

Having a decent teacher and a sangha to practice with (especially in the early years) is the best way to avoid practice that seeks to gain something and the disillusionment that inevitably follows.
This is not the wrong life.
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Re: An Ode to Not Meditating

Post by White Lotus »

People, two approaches, both are Zen. I respect letting go of the practice in order to embrace life just as it is. But I also respect the one who jumps into the river in order to swim. Both these approaches are zen. Zen embraces life with wisdom, but can also run away from the burning house.

Life is pretty cool. I guess that revulsion comes before joy with most people. We are all learning how to be happy. Sounds saccharine I know, but that doesn’t matter. You matter, my thirst is for you to be happy. Happiness or joy is for me worth the struggle. Sometimes it can seem a long way off and then there is a rent in the clouds and sunlight pours in with radiant blue sky and fluffy white clouds.

Happiness is a state, the ground of all. The joy of life. Treasure found that can not be lost.

Today I visited a Donkey sanctuary. So special. I met one dignified fellow with real love. When the dinky arrives the race horse is already in the stable.

I am so happy because I know that all of you will one day be happy.

Life isn’t so bad. It doesn’t have to be. Grateful.

You know that for some people perhaps a little misery can be very beautiful.

Must stop rambling on!

Best wishes, Tom.
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.
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