Supernatural powers

[Jokingfish]

Are they real or just a metaphor?

I basically found no direct thoughts on this site about it.

[futerko]

in some ways everything is "just a metaphor"

what would you do with such insights? - no one really appreciates being told their future, and you're simply stating the obvious anyway!

say you get a vision that the world will end in 2026, the real issue is what you do with that? - you're gonna feel pretty silly in 2027 having spent all your savings!

[PadmaVonSamba]

Are they real or just a metaphor?

I basically found no direct thoughts on this site about it.

I’ve rarely met a Buddhist practitioner who didn’t have the amazing ability find faults in others that they themselves were unaware of.

[Sādhaka]

There are a number of posts here about it.

My take is, that if they can be achieved as to benefit oneself and others; then great. If not both of these (or at least the latter), then they’re only a distraction.

[Konchog Thogme Jampa]

Are they real or just a metaphor?

I basically found no direct thoughts on this site about it.

I’ve rarely met a Buddhist practitioner who didn’t have the amazing ability find faults in others that they themselves were unaware of.

This is a mundane power limited to Samsara inherently

[Kim O'Hara]

As far as i know, there are written things about supernaturality in Buddhist texts, why? I mean those as teleportation etc. Cairvoyance is legit, but duplicating yourself (maybe its not written), what's the point?

There is no point, and nearly all the texts point this out.
The powers are said to arise naturally as a side-effect of worthwhile spiritual development but to be basically meaningless in terms of the goal of spiritual development. They are, however, capable of being a great distraction to practitioner and to lay people who learn about them, so practitioners are advised not to talk about their powers, far less demonstrate them.


Kim

[kirtu]

Are they real or just a metaphor?

I basically found no direct thoughts on this site about it.

There are different lists of supernatural powers that may develop. Aside from various kinds of clairvoyance, I've never seen them happen. However, there were some Goenka (Southern School meditation style) that said they had worked on developing them (they really claimed this).

I personally had an acquaintance who I met in one Dharma context but it turned out that we shared another lama as a guru as well (she really had practiced a lot with this other lama, I had taken a little bit of teaching with him) and she claimed that she saw him perform an actual miracle. This power doesn't happen to be on any of the lists of supernatural powers. She was also a reliable witness.

This is also something that Buddhists don't normally talk about (because it is distracting, etc.) and if they can demonstrate powers in some sense they are explicitly advised not to do so openly or to draw attention to it. A little miracle here or there will surely help someone in a specific circumstance but at least 100,000 people will still die tonight from various causes. Powers and miracles do not end samsara.

In a commentary on a text that briefly touched on these kinds of powers it said that the greatest miracle was actually just transforming one single negative emotion (HH 14th Dalai Lama has also said the same thing).

[Kim O'Hara]

I basically found no direct thoughts on this site about it.

Try these -

https://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?t=25704
https://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?t=34411
https://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?t=15865

- but (puts on mod hat) please don't try to re-open them - they are too old. Quoting them in this thread is okay if you want to pick up on any of their points.


Kim

[Giovanni]

I have no doubt that Siddhis exist. I have witnessed them along with others who witnessed them. The point being they were demonstrated for good reasons by remarkable teachers whose profound wisdom and compassion were clear even without those Siddhis. They were skillful means.

[Jokingfish]

So... Teleportation hasn't been done here on earth ever, right? Though there are texts that claim this power, no?

[Kim O'Hara]

So... Teleportation hasn't been done here on earth ever, right?

No-one here has made claims, either way, about that.

Though there are texts that claim this power, no?

Probably. If you know about them, feel free to share them.

In case you hadn't noticed, everyone here is basically saying, "We don't really know and we don't care very much because supernatural powers don't really matter."


Kim

[reiun]

I have no doubt that Siddhis exist. I have witnessed them along with others who witnessed them.

[Kim O'Hara]

I have no doubt that Siddhis exist. I have witnessed them along with others who witnessed them.

jokingfish specified teleportation. Giovanni did not.


Kim

[Giovanni]

I have not witnessed teleportation. Neither have I first hand knowledge of anyone who has.
In my opinion such pursuits distract us from our practise and can even bind us more firmly to the wheel.

[Astus]

Are they real or just a metaphor?

They are real as far as they happen in stories and occur as meditative or visionary experiences.

[Kai lord]

Are they real or just a metaphor?

I basically found no direct thoughts on this site about it.

It can be both, some of my living teachers have them, a few even have their experiences well documented by real life credible witnesses but those are not among my reasons why I consider them my teachers. Nor should that become chief consideration for anyone who is interested in Buddhism since such abilities are not restricted to Buddhism, Vedic sects have it, Taoism has it, etc. Even Christianity and Sufi claimed to have it, they just called them "miracles".

So if you need a reason to get interested in Buddhism, learning about superheroes powers is not the way to start.

As far as i know, there are written things about supernaturality in Buddhist texts, why? I mean those as teleportation etc. Cairvoyance is legit, but duplicating yourself (maybe its not written), what's the point?

If you believe in this account:

It is said that at least once Ayu Khandro had a spontaneous involuntary experience of long-distance teleportation. After the event she could not replicate the achievement at will and was forced to travel home for many days.

Instead of listening to the words or claims of others, why not practice and find out for yourself?

And to be frank, such siddhas or powers are pointless, in the age of technology, the ability to fly is only worth the price of a single air ticket.

In the age of superheroes media, people think powers are cool and overrated them to be important to have when they are pointless at best, distracting at worst

[reiun]

Students of a guru who claim to have witnessed him/her perform supernaturally are not reliable, because they cannot be objective. Possible comparison with a stage hypnotist who uses peer pressure, audience deception and physical manipulation in show. In either case, skepticism should be warranted.

Regarding false teleportation: also described in the Bible. First fake teleportation of Jesus during the three days between Crucifixion and Ascension (second fake teleportation) resulted in the so-called Harrowing of Hell. My understanding is that Jesus did not die on the cross. (Side note: Joseph the carpenter at the Essene monastery in Qumran made T-shaped posts for tents, which also were used as crosses . . .) Simon the Pope was the main target of crucifixion. Judas was his Second, on his east, and Jesus, "king of the Jews" to the west. All refused the vinegar, spoiled by poison, (so they could be martyrs), after they were nailed up at about nine am. But by three pm Jesus relented, drank, and passed out while under extreme pain of slowed circulation (which would have led to organ damage and slow death, typically over a three day period). But he was taken for dead. However Luke, who was a physician, saw he bled when his side was pierced, and thus knew he still lived. A large amount of Aloe, a purgative, was brought to the burial cave, and Myrrh, a soothing ingredient acting on the mucous membrane, to treat him. So he was alive the next day when he appeared to and was touched by the Apostles. In Acts of the Apostles, on the long boat trip to Rome, Jesus was no doubt aboard with Mary Magdalene, his wife. Some historical accounts confirm he was seen in Rome. They had children, which was important since he was the first heir to the royal David line, and thus this was a duty of his.

All the so-called miracles in the Bible have rational explanations. As one example, a jetty was built across the wady Kidron on behalf of priests wearing heavy vestments seeking to cross. The joke was that they "walked on water". Jesus allowed uncircumcised Gentiles to drink wine rather than water at service to make them equal to the Jews. Etc. Stories of teleportation, eternal life et al can be used competitively to convert or maintain members.

The above hopefully sounds rational/natural. So many Westerners have been inculcated with the opposite Christian version. Regardless of Buddhist or Christian orientation, I believe skepticism is warranted regarding the supernatural/irrational when an opposing rational/natural explanation is available. It doesn't have to mean one outright disbelieves, just that one has reason to be skeptical.

P.S. If you want to read a great supernatural fiction, try Mark Twain's witty Captain Stormfield's Visit to Heaven.

[muni]

The thinking conceptual mind is constantly using "super"natural powers. It makes for example things existing and other not existing. What more "super"natural do you want?

What is not fitting in that mind is usually called "supernatural".

[Jokingfish]

Thoughts on Ram Bahadur Bomjon fire trick? Scientists were amazed that he can meditate for long periods of time, but have no evidence about the fire.

[Kim O'Hara]

Thoughts on Ram Bahadur Bomjon fire trick? Scientists were amazed that he can meditate for long periods of time, but have no evidence about the fire.

Never heard of him or it, so no thoughts.

And not interested enought to do a web search because, as nearly all of us have said, such things just don't matter.


Kim