Contra a Popular Misconception: The Pure Land is not a Bodhisattva "Training Ground"

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Zhen Li
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Re: Contra a Popular Misconception: The Pure Land is not a Bodhisattva "Training Ground"

Post by Zhen Li »

Mirror wrote: Tue Aug 30, 2022 6:11 pm Thank you very much for your answer.

I'll put it differently. Can a person (according to Jōdo Shinshū) die early (intentionally) in order to be reborn in Sukhavati sooner than that person normally would (for example out of old age)?
The reason we don't do that is because shinjin is like a magnet that draws us to Buddhahood—but it is not just one being indivudally: all beings. The two go together as a pair. To aim to aid beings to awakening is to act out of gratitude to the Buddha and what he has done for us in bringing our beginningless mind-stream to a suitable conclusion. Therefore, Shandao writes in the Ojo Raisange:
To realize shinjin oneself and to guide others to shinjin
Is among difficult things yet even more difficult.
To awaken beings everywhere to great compassion
Is truly to respond in gratitude to the Buddha’s benevolence.
So, after awakening shinjin, one receives great motivation to aid others. This is because shinjin is imbued with bodhicitta. If you cannot generate this desire in yourself before shinjin, it comes about by natural working after receiving shinjin. So, to end your life early would be to act contrary to this motivation and may indicate lack of shinjin. If that happens it is entirely due to one's own karmic evil and destructive emotions, and not due to or because of shinjin—the latter would imply that Amitābha is permitting or being responsible for killing, which is an impossibility. Let death come when your karmic roots dictate, and don't unnecessarily attempt to prolong your life, for that too is coming from a place of afflictive emotion. In the natural span of life, aim to benefit beings as much as possible—this is evidenced by the lives of all Pure Land masters. In this sense, too, an aspect of buddhahood does make itself evidenced in this life.
Mirror
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Re: Contra a Popular Misconception: The Pure Land is not a Bodhisattva "Training Ground"

Post by Mirror »

Zhen Li wrote: Wed Aug 31, 2022 8:32 am So, after awakening shinjin, one receives great motivation to aid others. This is because shinjin is imbued with bodhicitta. If you cannot generate this desire in yourself before shinjin, it comes about by natural working after receiving shinjin. So, to end your life early would be to act contrary to this motivation and may indicate lack of shinjin. If that happens it is entirely due to one's own karmic evil and destructive emotions, and not due to or because of shinjin—the latter would imply that Amitābha is permitting or being responsible for killing, which is an impossibility. Let death come when your karmic roots dictate, and don't unnecessarily attempt to prolong your life, for that too is coming from a place of afflictive emotion. In the natural span of life, aim to benefit beings as much as possible—this is evidenced by the lives of all Pure Land masters. In this sense, too, an aspect of buddhahood does make itself evidenced in this life.
Thank you very much!

I don't mean like killing myself physically. In Chinese Pure Land Buddhism there are many cases when people are reborn in Sukhavati before one's natural death (I mean they die in the proces, but die much early than they naturally would). Because of their strong faith, vow and vigorous practice Amitabha will come for them. It's mostly a result of attaining Amitabha Samadhi. The motivation is Bodhichitta, because in Sukhavati we have so much power, we can help sentient beings much more than with our current body. So I wonder if something like this exist in Jōdo Shinshū. Are there any cases of people leaving early? Does there exist such teaching as I described? Thank you for your answer!
Memento mori
Remember that you die
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Zhen Li
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Re: Contra a Popular Misconception: The Pure Land is not a Bodhisattva "Training Ground"

Post by Zhen Li »

Mirror wrote: Wed Aug 31, 2022 10:27 am I don't mean like killing myself physically. In Chinese Pure Land Buddhism there are many cases when people are reborn in Sukhavati before one's natural death (I mean they die in the proces, but die much early than they naturally would). Because of their strong faith, vow and vigorous practice Amitabha will come for them. It's mostly a result of attaining Amitabha Samadhi. The motivation is Bodhichitta, because in Sukhavati we have so much power, we can help sentient beings much more than with our current body. So I wonder if something like this exist in Jōdo Shinshū. Are there any cases of people leaving early? Does there exist such teaching as I described? Thank you for your answer!
Unless you have direct knowledge of the person's karma, it is impossible to say that they did not die when they naturally would have.

If they have received shinjin, whenever they die, they will attain birth. But Amitābha will not kill them.

There is nothing contrary to bodhicitta to continue living in this world after attaining assurance of birth if one's life accords with bodhicitta. Ken Tanaka suggests that this is genso eko (direction of merit for return to this world) occurring before birth—this is not actually orthodox Shin, but I think it accords with the Dharma and what Shinran said. It is not orthodox because it can create in people the expectation that they have to do something, or have particular or special signs of shinjin—which is not the case.
Mirror
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Re: Contra a Popular Misconception: The Pure Land is not a Bodhisattva "Training Ground"

Post by Mirror »

Zhen Li wrote: Wed Aug 31, 2022 11:06 am
Mirror wrote: Wed Aug 31, 2022 10:27 am I don't mean like killing myself physically. In Chinese Pure Land Buddhism there are many cases when people are reborn in Sukhavati before one's natural death (I mean they die in the proces, but die much early than they naturally would). Because of their strong faith, vow and vigorous practice Amitabha will come for them. It's mostly a result of attaining Amitabha Samadhi. The motivation is Bodhichitta, because in Sukhavati we have so much power, we can help sentient beings much more than with our current body. So I wonder if something like this exist in Jōdo Shinshū. Are there any cases of people leaving early? Does there exist such teaching as I described? Thank you for your answer!
Unless you have direct knowledge of the person's karma, it is impossible to say that they did not die when they naturally would have.

If they have received shinjin, whenever they die, they will attain birth. But Amitābha will not kill them.

There is nothing contrary to bodhicitta to continue living in this world after attaining assurance of birth if one's life accords with bodhicitta. Ken Tanaka suggests that this is genso eko (direction of merit for return to this world) occurring before birth—this is not actually orthodox Shin, but I think it accords with the Dharma and what Shinran said. It is not orthodox because it can create in people the expectation that they have to do something, or have particular or special signs of shinjin—which is not the case.
:good:

Thank you for the explanation!
Memento mori
Remember that you die
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