A Mahayana version of "In the Buddha's Words"

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A Mahayana version of "In the Buddha's Words"

Post by Javierfv1212 »

Bhikkhu Bodhi's "In the Buddha's Words" is a great anthology of Pali suttas which organizes many key passages and sutras from the Pali Nikayas. Its a pretty popular book in the Theravada scene since it introduces the main ideas of sravakayana with Buddhavacana in a logical fashion, making the massive Nikaya literature accessible.

I was wondering, if someone were to make a similar compilation for Mahayana, which Mahayana sutra passages would you say definitely must be included in it?

Also, how you you organize said compilation, would use the six perfections for example?
It is quite impossible to find the Buddha anywhere other than in one's own mind.
A person who is ignorant of this may seek externally,
but how is it possible to find oneself through seeking anywhere other than in oneself?
Someone who seeks their own nature externally is like a fool who, giving a performance in the middle of a crowd, forgets who he is and then seeks everywhere else to find himself.
— Padmasambhava

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Re: A Mahayana version of "In the Buddha's Words"

Post by Astus »

Javierfv1212 wrote: Sun Jul 24, 2022 4:47 pmI was wondering, if someone were to make a similar compilation for Mahayana, which Mahayana sutra passages would you say definitely must be included in it?
Something like that has been done already.

Buddha-Dharma: The Way To Enlightenment

Common Buddhist Text: Guidance and Insight from the Buddha
1 Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.


1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"
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Re: A Mahayana version of "In the Buddha's Words"

Post by Shunyatagarbha »

"While at Nalanda, Shantideva composed the Shikshasamuccaya, a “Compendium of Buddhist Doctrines”, which drew together citations from a vast number of sutras and texts".
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Re: A Mahayana version of "In the Buddha's Words"

Post by Queequeg »

The Teachings of Buddha published by BDK is good. This is a book you often find in hotel rooms across Japan.
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
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Re: A Mahayana version of "In the Buddha's Words"

Post by Javierfv1212 »

Astus wrote: Sun Jul 24, 2022 8:51 pm
Javierfv1212 wrote: Sun Jul 24, 2022 4:47 pmI was wondering, if someone were to make a similar compilation for Mahayana, which Mahayana sutra passages would you say definitely must be included in it?
Something like that has been done already.

Buddha-Dharma: The Way To Enlightenment

Common Buddhist Text: Guidance and Insight from the Buddha
Yes but i was thinking of something that's specifically Mahayanist.
It is quite impossible to find the Buddha anywhere other than in one's own mind.
A person who is ignorant of this may seek externally,
but how is it possible to find oneself through seeking anywhere other than in oneself?
Someone who seeks their own nature externally is like a fool who, giving a performance in the middle of a crowd, forgets who he is and then seeks everywhere else to find himself.
— Padmasambhava

Visit my site: https://sites.google.com/view/abhayajana/
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Re: A Mahayana version of "In the Buddha's Words"

Post by Astus »

Javierfv1212 wrote: Mon Jul 25, 2022 5:26 pmYes but i was thinking of something that's specifically Mahayanist.
There's the Sutrasamuccaya, but its English translation by Bhikkhu Pāsādika seems hard to come by.
1 Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.


1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"
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Re: A Mahayana version of "In the Buddha's Words"

Post by Shunyatagarbha »

Javierfv1212 wrote: Mon Jul 25, 2022 5:26 pm Yes but i was thinking of something that's specifically Mahayanist.
Have you read the Shikshasamuccaya of Shantideva? It contains only Mahayana sutra quotations, nothing from the Pali canon so it could be just what you're looking for. There are two very good English translations available in print.
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Re: A Mahayana version of "In the Buddha's Words"

Post by Zhen Li »

Javierfv1212 wrote: Mon Jul 25, 2022 5:26 pm
Astus wrote: Sun Jul 24, 2022 8:51 pm
Javierfv1212 wrote: Sun Jul 24, 2022 4:47 pmI was wondering, if someone were to make a similar compilation for Mahayana, which Mahayana sutra passages would you say definitely must be included in it?
Something like that has been done already.

Buddha-Dharma: The Way To Enlightenment

Common Buddhist Text: Guidance and Insight from the Buddha
Yes but i was thinking of something that's specifically Mahayanist.
Buddha-Dharma: The Way to Enlightenment is specifically Mahāyānist. It was compiled by scholars from each school of Japanese Buddhism.

The translations are kind of like abbreviated colloquialisations, so it's also quite easy to read for people who find sūtras hard to get through. It's also arranged largely along the lines of a biography of the Buddha, so it also bears a lot of resemblance to Bhikkhu Ñāṇamoli's Life of the Buddha: According to the Pali Canon. It has selections from the āgamas and vinaya, but these are more to contextualise the biographical information and to provide the foundations, like Four Noble Truths, etc.

The Indian anthologies that others have mentioned are of course good, but they are terse and not really accessible to modern readers in the way "In the Buddha's Words" and "Buddha-Dharma" are. They should also be treated as primary, rather than secondary, resources.
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Re: A Mahayana version of "In the Buddha's Words"

Post by Queequeg »

Zhen Li wrote: Tue Jul 26, 2022 12:09 pm
Javierfv1212 wrote: Mon Jul 25, 2022 5:26 pm
Astus wrote: Sun Jul 24, 2022 8:51 pm

Something like that has been done already.

Buddha-Dharma: The Way To Enlightenment

Common Buddhist Text: Guidance and Insight from the Buddha
Yes but i was thinking of something that's specifically Mahayanist.
Buddha-Dharma: The Way to Enlightenment is specifically Mahāyānist. It was compiled by scholars from each school of Japanese Buddhism.

The translations are kind of like abbreviated colloquialisations, so it's also quite easy to read for people who find sūtras hard to get through. It's also arranged largely along the lines of a biography of the Buddha, so it also bears a lot of resemblance to Bhikkhu Ñāṇamoli's Life of the Buddha: According to the Pali Canon. It has selections from the āgamas and vinaya, but these are more to contextualise the biographical information and to provide the foundations, like Four Noble Truths, etc.

The Indian anthologies that others have mentioned are of course good, but they are terse and not really accessible to modern readers in the way "In the Buddha's Words" and "Buddha-Dharma" are. They should also be treated as primary, rather than secondary, resources.
I believe the book I cited above is related to this. Perhaps the Teachings of Buddha is a condensed version of Buddha-Dharma. BDK, the publisher of the former is, I believe, related to the Numata Center.
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
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Re: A Mahayana version of "In the Buddha's Words"

Post by Javierfv1212 »

Shunyatagarbha wrote: Tue Jul 26, 2022 1:22 am
Javierfv1212 wrote: Mon Jul 25, 2022 5:26 pm Yes but i was thinking of something that's specifically Mahayanist.
Have you read the Shikshasamuccaya of Shantideva? It contains only Mahayana sutra quotations, nothing from the Pali canon so it could be just what you're looking for. There are two very good English translations available in print.
I haven't looked at this in detail yet, but I am aware of it. I guess I was looking for a modern kind of compilation which introduces Mahayana ideas in the way that In the Buddha's words does for beginners.

I looked through 'Buddha-Dharma', but it doesn't seem to do the same kind of thing that In the Buddha's Words does for basic sravakayana ideas. I think it would be good to have something which introduced the fundamental concepts of Mahayana mainly through quoting the most relevant and important passages from Mahayana sutras.
It is quite impossible to find the Buddha anywhere other than in one's own mind.
A person who is ignorant of this may seek externally,
but how is it possible to find oneself through seeking anywhere other than in oneself?
Someone who seeks their own nature externally is like a fool who, giving a performance in the middle of a crowd, forgets who he is and then seeks everywhere else to find himself.
— Padmasambhava

Visit my site: https://sites.google.com/view/abhayajana/
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Re: A Mahayana version of "In the Buddha's Words"

Post by Shunyatagarbha »

Javierfv1212 wrote: Tue Jul 26, 2022 8:37 pm I guess I was looking for a modern kind of compilation which introduces Mahayana ideas in the way that In the Buddha's words does for beginners.
Not sure about the meaning of "a modern kind of compilation"?
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Re: A Mahayana version of "In the Buddha's Words"

Post by Kim O'Hara »

Javierfv1212 wrote: Tue Jul 26, 2022 8:37 pm
Shunyatagarbha wrote: Tue Jul 26, 2022 1:22 am
Javierfv1212 wrote: Mon Jul 25, 2022 5:26 pm Yes but i was thinking of something that's specifically Mahayanist.
Have you read the Shikshasamuccaya of Shantideva? It contains only Mahayana sutra quotations, nothing from the Pali canon so it could be just what you're looking for. There are two very good English translations available in print.
I haven't looked at this in detail yet, but I am aware of it. I guess I was looking for a modern kind of compilation which introduces Mahayana ideas in the way that In the Buddha's words does for beginners.

I looked through 'Buddha-Dharma', but it doesn't seem to do the same kind of thing that In the Buddha's Words does for basic sravakayana ideas. I think it would be good to have something which introduced the fundamental concepts of Mahayana mainly through quoting the most relevant and important passages from Mahayana sutras.
There's a problem with that proposal: "the most relevant and important passages" and the most relevant and important sutras are a matter of opinion and people in different schools will come up with significnatly different lists. If you included all of them, the book would be too big to serve as an introduction, but if you didn't you would have chosen one or two schools over the others.

We had a similar discussion here a while ago (maybe about a year ago, certainly about picking the key Mahayana sutras) which could be worth a look if anyone can remember enough about it to find it. (I can't.)

:namaste:
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Re: A Mahayana version of "In the Buddha's Words"

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Queequeg wrote: Tue Jul 26, 2022 7:38 pm I believe the book I cited above is related to this. Perhaps the Teachings of Buddha is a condensed version of Buddha-Dharma. BDK, the publisher of the former is, I believe, related to the Numata Center.
Honestly, "The Teaching of Buddha" never grew on me, despite having encountered it many times, maybe the wording is too dated.

It is not actually a condensed version of Buddha-Dharma, but is published by BDK (founded by Yehan Numata). The history of both publications can be found in the introduction of "Buddha-Dharma" and the conclusion of "The Teaching of Buddha."
Javierfv1212 wrote: Tue Jul 26, 2022 8:37 pm I looked through 'Buddha-Dharma', but it doesn't seem to do the same kind of thing that In the Buddha's Words does for basic sravakayana ideas. I think it would be good to have something which introduced the fundamental concepts of Mahayana mainly through quoting the most relevant and important passages from Mahayana sutras.
How doesn't Buddha-Dharma do that? Is it that it is too long?

While Śikṣāsamuccaya is a masterful composition, it is not actually intended to cover all the basics of Mahāyāna in that way, and is more about bodhisattva conduct. It is also a genuine Śāntideva text, whereas the Bodhisattvacaryāvatāra was expanded by him.
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Re: A Mahayana version of "In the Buddha's Words"

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Zhen Li wrote: Wed Jul 27, 2022 10:37 am It is also a genuine Śāntideva text, whereas the Bodhisattvacaryāvatāra was expanded by him.
That’s an interesting theory. Why do you think so and what’s your evidence?
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Re: A Mahayana version of "In the Buddha's Words"

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Malcolm wrote: Wed Jul 27, 2022 11:16 am
Zhen Li wrote: Wed Jul 27, 2022 10:37 am It is also a genuine Śāntideva text, whereas the Bodhisattvacaryāvatāra was expanded by him.
That’s an interesting theory. Why do you think so and what’s your evidence?
Akira Saitō explains how the base text was probably composed by Akṣayamati and expanded by Śāntideva in “An Inquiry into the Relationship between the Śikṣāsamuccaya and the Bodhi(sattva)caryāvatāra,” Indotetsugaku Bukkyōgaku Kenkyū インド哲学仏教学研究 17 (2010).

And Akira Saitō, “Notes on the Interpretation of the Bodhi(sattva)caryāvatāra V.104—106,” in Gedenkschrift J.W. de Jong, eds. H.W. Bodewitz and M. Hara (Tōkyō: International Institute for Buddhist Studies, 2004).

I think he also goes into the topic in his entry for Brill's Encyclopedia of Buddhism, vol. 2, Lives, ed. Johnathan A. Silk (Leiden: Brill, 2019), 395.
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Re: A Mahayana version of "In the Buddha's Words"

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Zhen Li wrote: Wed Jul 27, 2022 11:28 am
Malcolm wrote: Wed Jul 27, 2022 11:16 am
Zhen Li wrote: Wed Jul 27, 2022 10:37 am It is also a genuine Śāntideva text, whereas the Bodhisattvacaryāvatāra was expanded by him.
That’s an interesting theory. Why do you think so and what’s your evidence?
Akira Saitō explains how the base text was probably composed by Akṣayamati and expanded by Śāntideva in “An Inquiry into the Relationship between the Śikṣāsamuccaya and the Bodhi(sattva)caryāvatāra,” Indotetsugaku Bukkyōgaku Kenkyū インド哲学仏教学研究 17 (2010).

And Akira Saitō, “Notes on the Interpretation of the Bodhi(sattva)caryāvatāra V.104—106,” in Gedenkschrift J.W. de Jong, eds. H.W. Bodewitz and M. Hara (Tōkyō: International Institute for Buddhist Studies, 2004).

I think he also goes into the topic in his entry for Brill's Encyclopedia of Buddhism, vol. 2, Lives, ed. Johnathan A. Silk (Leiden: Brill, 2019), 395.
https://earlytibet.com/2014/02/04/the-o ... ryavatara/

According to Van Schaik, Saito actually thinks the former name is an honorific for the latter. But yes, the text was expanded at some point between its initial translation into Tibetan and its later translation.
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Re: A Mahayana version of "In the Buddha's Words"

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Shunyatagarbha wrote: Tue Jul 26, 2022 10:31 pm
Javierfv1212 wrote: Tue Jul 26, 2022 8:37 pm I guess I was looking for a modern kind of compilation which introduces Mahayana ideas in the way that In the Buddha's words does for beginners.
Not sure about the meaning of "a modern kind of compilation"?
There is a 'modern kind of compilation,' one rendered for reading by modern folks, rather than being strict translations that are replete with all the repetitive iterations of whatever is being talked about, as was the habit of the oral tradition way back when in India. It's modern, but not recent, having been published in the '20s, a century ago. In his preface, the editor, and translator of some of the texts, describes his efforts this way:
The present editor has been guided in his selection of scriptures for this Buddhist Bible by a sincere purpose to make the selection as comprehensive as possible within its limits and to represent as truly as possible the original teachings of the Blessed One both as understood by the Southern and more primitive school and by the Northern and more philosophical interpreters. He has also humbly tried to have the choice vouched for by his own spiritual experience in his practice of the Noble Path and especially during its Eighth Stage of intuitive Dhyana.
Don't be put off by the word "bible," which in English, even today, has a meaning of a collection of scriptural texts of any religion, not just Christianity, or Judaism. Like I said, it was a century ago. The book is called "A Buddhist Bible" (edition 2) edited by Dwight Goddard.

Robert A.F. Thurman talks about this book and its effect on Jack Kerouac, who he labels as "the lead bodhisattva, way back there in the 1950s." And Thurman remembers that it was Kerouac who first exposed him to Buddhism.

The book is out of copyright, and although you can buy over-priced print editions, I can send you a pdf version to take a look at. Just send me an email: my user-id here At TranquillitySecret.com

And thank you for the message you sent.

This is its table of contents:
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Re: A Mahayana version of "In the Buddha's Words"

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Someone brought up Shantideva... isn't Bodhisattvacaryavatara a good intro to Mahayana? Or Nagarjuna's Precious Garland?

What is Mahayana but living out Bodhicitta? Not sure if you can really put together an anthology that will make much sense.
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
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Re: A Mahayana version of "In the Buddha's Words"

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Javierfv1212 wrote: Sun Jul 24, 2022 4:47 pm I was wondering, if someone were to make a similar compilation for Mahayana, which Mahayana sutra passages would you say definitely must be included in it?

Also, how you you organize said compilation, would use the six perfections for example?
No one has actually tried to respond to this question yet. It's easiest to start with the second question ("how would you organize it"). You could do so in several ways: for example, according to the arrangement of the Mahayana sutras of the Tibetan Tripitaka so that you would feature important passages highlighting the doctrine of Middle Way and emptiness from the 100,000 through to the Vajra Cutter, Heart and One-Syllable Perfection of Wisdom sutras of the primary perfection which seals all the others, so an ideal starting point. Then move onto the opening scene under the Tree of Enlightenment in the Flower Ornament Sutra with verses exemplifying the miraculous, cosmic glory of the Buddha's vast realization, and proceed to find the choicest verses from that extensive teaching, including from the Lords of the Ten Stages, indicative of the most exalted aspects of the bodhisattva's career, and the Stem Array or Entry into the Reality Realm (Gandavyuha) teaching the extent of the quest for the enlightenment equal to that of the Buddha, and the Aspiration to Good Conduct of the All Good Bodhisattva which is the distillation of the true spirit of the Mahayana; and then go on through the best parts of the Jewel Heap Sutra collection, including the Amitabha Pure Land sutra. Then you would find the best bits from the Sutra of the Good Aeon to highlight the many buddhas of this age, and the vows they made to purify Buddha lands, and all of the countlesss wonderful passages from the Unfolding of the Play (Lalitavistara) to show the marvelous life and acts of the blessed Buddha. Then you would return to more scholarly doctrine by pointing out the important Idealist philosophy verses of the Unraveling of Intent and Sojourn in Sri Lanka sutras. Then you could highlight scenes from the important and mystic Joinery (Samghata) Sutra to show how dazzling and stunning the Dharma can be, followed by extensive quotations from the White Lotus of the Good Law including those on the Ekayana and the length of life of the Tathagata and the unparalleled transcendental powers of buddhahood. Then you could look at saying something about the mani mantra from the Basket's Display (Karandavyuha). And you could cite many wonderful passages on the four seals of Purity, Self, Eternal, and Bliss from the Sutra of the Great Demise. Also, you could find several important passages on various doctrinal topics from the King of Samadhis showing the mastery of eloquence of the awakened ones. Then you could mention the wonderful spiritual powers obtained by lay bodhisattvas such as Pure Fame (Vimalakirti) and show how this teaches on the nonduality of many things. Then you could find quotes about dependent arising from among the Dependent Arising Mahayana sutras. Then again you could find verses on Buddha nature from the Finger Necklace and Tathagata Embyo sutras. And then say something about the bodhisattva's power of skill in means in the world from the sutra of the same name (Upaya Kaushalya Sutra). And it would be essential to include, perhaps as a summary, some phrases from the Sutra of Golden Light, that holy book, to express the truly transcendental, sublime nature of the Great Vehicle and the Buddha.

From out of all those above, you could probably if you wanted to, construct something to hang the five or six perfections on; or you could change it all around and approach it from a chronological sequence, starting with the enlightenment scene from the Flower Ornament and ending with the Final Great Nirvana Sutra. Or, you could organize it by doctrine: Middle Way, Idealist, Buddha Nature (not necessarily in that order).

You would have to bear in the mind that those sutras comprise nearly 60,000 pages of text in Tibetan translation - 68 volumes at around 850-900-odd pages per volume by one reckoning - so making a summary of them all would be a tall order. This is probably why something like that doesn't really exist and texts like the Training Anthology only focus on bodhisattva training. (The contents of the Sutrasamuccaya are a mystery to most people today since it hasn't become widely available in a Western language).

As for the requirement that it be "modern" I'm not clear on how that part of it could be accomplished or exactly what that would mean.
Last edited by Shunyatagarbha on Wed Jul 27, 2022 1:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A Mahayana version of "In the Buddha's Words"

Post by Zhen Li »

Again, that is pretty much what "Buddha-Dharma" is.

As for "A Buddhist Bible" it is pretty dated and too limited in its selection to really do justice to the Mahayana and treats geographical regions as divisions, which strikes me as not so helpful for these purposes.

If anything, "Buddha-Dharma" is too big to be accessible, which is probably what Javier didn't like about it.

Suppose one were to make selections based on Wikipedia headings (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahayana), with a few extra additions and removals, would that be what one you are looking for?

This would theoretically treat "In the Buddha's Words" as assumed pre-reading.

Honestly, I was thinking of making a book like that for quite some time but put it off since I decided Buddha-Dharma kind of did that job. But it is not quite doing the same thing. We could start something like together this with the feedback of members of the forum.
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