Visiting Fuji Taiseki-ji Kenshōkai

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soraf
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Visiting Fuji Taiseki-ji Kenshōkai

Post by soraf »

So these two ladies have been coming to my door, trying to get me to go to some Fuji Taiseki-ji Kenshōkai event with them (from Tokyo, idk to where, in a car with them).

At first I was just annoyed. I'll be honest, I don't and won't believe any of the things they told me (or in any other religion), and I find their materials rather creepy. I also don't know anything about Nichiren and the various associated sects, except what's on Wikipedia.

But then I started thinking, maybe it'd be interesting to see what it's like -- be a fly on the wall for a day.

Do you reckon it'd be worth it? Would it be safe? xD In the only other thread about Kenshōkai it said something about abductions. Wtf.

Thanks.
narhwal90
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Re: Visiting Fuji Taiseki-ji Kenshōkai

Post by narhwal90 »

It would be an opportunity to get your perspecti mve rather than resortingto someone else's. Perhaps make your own travel arrangements if you are concerned about going with them. That said, there is a kind and helpful tradition in some of the Nichiren schools of helping people get to meetings. Early on in my practice such was done for me and friends of mine for several years.
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Queequeg
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Re: Visiting Fuji Taiseki-ji Kenshōkai

Post by Queequeg »

Totally safe. Go be a tourist. Will be a very different experience than going to other temples/sects. Its a pretty area and weather permitting you'll get a very dramatic view of Fujisan.

Sounds like you're not inclined to actually join. Just be aware that going on this trip will be like going to visit a time share on a trial basis. The hard sell will follow.
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
soraf
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Re: Visiting Fuji Taiseki-ji Kenshōkai

Post by soraf »

Thanks for both your answers.

Yes, I am indeed not inclined to join. How should I imagine the "hard sell" to look like? "We won't let you go / bring you home unless you sign this", coercion?

Also, I was referring to this post https://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.p ... h%C5%8Dkai from last year, where illarraza says "They still utilize forceful conversions and you can find online arrests for kidnapping of those who have refused to join." That sounds insane, and indeed on a cursory glance I found one report of a student being reportedly abducted, and plenty of Japanese pages that discuss the "danger" of these cults.

If you don't mind, could you share how you know that it's totally safe? Have you personally been there? (Your description makes it sound like you have.)
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Queequeg
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Re: Visiting Fuji Taiseki-ji Kenshōkai

Post by Queequeg »

soraf wrote: Fri Jul 15, 2022 1:40 pm Thanks for both your answers.

Yes, I am indeed not inclined to join. How should I imagine the "hard sell" to look like? "We won't let you go / bring you home unless you sign this", coercion?

Also, I was referring to this post https://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.p ... h%C5%8Dkai from last year, where illarraza says "They still utilize forceful conversions and you can find online arrests for kidnapping of those who have refused to join." That sounds insane, and indeed on a cursory glance I found one report of a student being reportedly abducted, and plenty of Japanese pages that discuss the "danger" of these cults.

If you don't mind, could you share how you know that it's totally safe? Have you personally been there? (Your description makes it sound like you have.)
Illaraza has an axe to grind. Take his assertions with a grain of salt. (cue illaraza's wrath).

The hard sell is those two ladies showing up at your door with a smile and persistent but friendly invitations to join other activities regularly. They're not going to kidnap you or make you sign away your children and bank accounts on the threat of violence. These people want to save you.

I visited Taisekiji many times when I was young. I went with my grandmother every summer until she passed away. After the schism with Soka Gakkai, I've visited informally, just visiting the grounds. I'm not associated with any Nichiren groups now. Take my comments for what they're worth from some random on the internet.

Don't believe everything you find in the sensationalized Japanese tabloids and internet forums. Its not a cult - though Kenshokai is a relatively new group, it has its roots in the danto organizations of Nichiren Shoshu going back centuries. Soka Gakkai also is not a cult despite complaints you'll find out there - they were originally a danto group, too. Groups associated with Nichiren Shoshu, including Soka Gakkai, have in the past been aggressive proselytizers but they've mellowed and are mainstream Japanese establishments at this point. Nichiren Shoshu and Soka Gakkai had a very bitter falling out some 30 years ago but aside from lingering bad feelings, I think that chapter is closed. In case you're not aware, Soka Gakkai is Komeito.

If you're curious, go. There are worse ways to spend a day.
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
narhwal90
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Re: Visiting Fuji Taiseki-ji Kenshōkai

Post by narhwal90 »

If the hard sell is similar to SGI it'll be more along the lines of "we have another meeting next week would you like to attend?". It is well to view inflammatory claims with a grain of salt.
soraf
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Re: Visiting Fuji Taiseki-ji Kenshōkai

Post by soraf »

Queequeg wrote: Fri Jul 15, 2022 2:36 pm
soraf wrote: Fri Jul 15, 2022 1:40 pm Thanks for both your answers.

Yes, I am indeed not inclined to join. How should I imagine the "hard sell" to look like? "We won't let you go / bring you home unless you sign this", coercion?

Also, I was referring to this post https://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.p ... h%C5%8Dkai from last year, where illarraza says "They still utilize forceful conversions and you can find online arrests for kidnapping of those who have refused to join." That sounds insane, and indeed on a cursory glance I found one report of a student being reportedly abducted, and plenty of Japanese pages that discuss the "danger" of these cults.

If you don't mind, could you share how you know that it's totally safe? Have you personally been there? (Your description makes it sound like you have.)
Illaraza has an axe to grind. Take his assertions with a grain of salt. (cue illaraza's wrath).

The hard sell is those two ladies showing up at your door with a smile and persistent but friendly invitations to join other activities regularly. They're not going to kidnap you or make you sign away your children and bank accounts on the threat of violence. These people want to save you.

I visited Taisekiji many times when I was young. I went with my grandmother every summer until she passed away. After the schism with Soka Gakkai, I've visited informally, just visiting the grounds. I'm not associated with any Nichiren groups now. Take my comments for what they're worth from some random on the internet.

Don't believe everything you find in the sensationalized Japanese tabloids and internet forums. Its not a cult - though Kenshokai is a relatively new group, it has its roots in the danto organizations of Nichiren Shoshu going back centuries. Soka Gakkai also is not a cult despite complaints you'll find out there - they were originally a danto group, too. Groups associated with Nichiren Shoshu, including Soka Gakkai, have in the past been aggressive proselytizers but they've mellowed and are mainstream Japanese establishments at this point. Nichiren Shoshu and Soka Gakkai had a very bitter falling out some 30 years ago but aside from lingering bad feelings, I think that chapter is closed. In case you're not aware, Soka Gakkai is Komeito.

If you're curious, go. There are worse ways to spend a day.
Thanks for the context, I'll think about it!
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FiveSkandhas
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Re: Visiting Fuji Taiseki-ji Kenshōkai

Post by FiveSkandhas »

It’s a lovely temple, well worth a visit. On your own terms, whatever they may be.

Queequeg’s post is good as usual. Personally I don’t want door-to-door types marking my address as “potential win” and returning again and again, no matter how well-intentioned. It’s a bit like what happens when you start feeding stray cats.

I advise you to go by yourself or with a friend. It’s a great day trip from Tokyo.
"One should cultivate contemplation in one’s foibles. The foibles are like fish, and contemplation is like fishing hooks. If there are no fish, then the fishing hooks have no use. The bigger the fish is, the better the result we will get. As long as the fishing hooks keep at it, all foibles will eventually be contained and controlled at will." -Zhiyi

"Just be kind." -Atisha
soraf
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Re: Visiting Fuji Taiseki-ji Kenshōkai

Post by soraf »

FiveSkandhas wrote: Sat Jul 16, 2022 7:17 pm It’s a lovely temple, well worth a visit. On your own terms, whatever they may be.

Queequeg’s post is good as usual. Personally I don’t want door-to-door types marking my address as “potential win” and returning again and again, no matter how well-intentioned. It’s a bit like what happens when you start feeding stray cats.

I advise you to go by yourself or with a friend. It’s a great day trip from Tokyo.
Good call!
yokosukasailorboy
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Re: Visiting Fuji Taiseki-ji Kenshōkai

Post by yokosukasailorboy »

Anyway, I previously posted a comment on this thread without giving appropriate sources, anyway I gave the following quote regarding Fuji Taisekiji Kenhōkai:

"3 members of Fuji Taisekiji Kenshōkai were arrested for abducting a college student they met at a game center in Atsugi City, taking the student to Odawara City and extracting the student's name and address, forcing the student to undergo a 2-hour intercessory prayer (kitō) and insisting that the student join the group. Aside from the arrests, a section of the Kanagawa Prefectural Police and the Atsugi Police used a 120-person team to search the headquarters of the group and a total of 8 places including members' homes."

This is the link: http://www.rirc.or.jp/english/articles_34.html
(the link is from the website of International Institute for the Study of Religions, Religious Information Research Center, quoted from domestic Japanese news sources, for which the original link is not given.)

I don't remember everything else I said in the last comment I wrote here, but I'll try to summarise it from memory:

I just mentioned that, if true, it would be very concerning information. I also mentioned that Fuji Taisekiji Kenshōkai seems to be a fairly militant organisation, though it isn't clear to me how their structure, rallies, or adulation of their leader relates to Nichiren Buddhism. Also, that it seems that some groups that are or were affiliated with Taisekiji seem very zealous in their practices.
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Queequeg
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Re: Visiting Fuji Taiseki-ji Kenshōkai

Post by Queequeg »

Maybe they thought the person was possessed.

Sounds a little over blown to call it kidnapping even if it technically was. Story as presented here sounds fishy and incomplete.

Not suggesting that what happened if true is OK, but its not something to get breathless over. Not suggesting I'd want to be on their radar either.

As for zealous? Sure. They want to save everyone in the world. That's a tall task. Gotta have guts to undertake something like that.
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
yokosukasailorboy
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Re: Visiting Fuji Taiseki-ji Kenshōkai

Post by yokosukasailorboy »

Queequeg wrote: Wed Jul 20, 2022 9:22 pm Maybe they thought the person was possessed.

Sounds a little over blown to call it kidnapping even if it technically was. Story as presented here sounds fishy and incomplete.

Not suggesting that what happened if true is OK, but its not something to get breathless over. Not suggesting I'd want to be on their radar either.

As for zealous? Sure. They want to save everyone in the world. That's a tall task. Gotta have guts to undertake something like that.
Yes, naturally I appreciate their zeal, though one can see how misdirected zeal can sometimes have negative results. I sometimes wonder how groups such as this feel that their teachings or practices are a reflection of the teachings of the Venerable Nichiren Shonin. I remember back in the mid '90s some Fuji Taiseki-ji Kenshōkai members on the street giving me a magazine or another publication, but when I queried them about the Lotus Sutra or authentic teachings of Nichiren they seemed less than knowledgable, though this could have been a reflection on the individual members and not the organisation as a whole. It seems like some groups are more personality-centered than focused on doctrine.
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