Social anxiety and sangha

[PowerfulCrumbs]

Hello DW friends,

I have struggled with intense feelings of anxiety when interacting with other people since I was very little. I frequently act in an awkward way that I believe makes others uncomfortable. For example, sometimes I can’t tell if people are talking to me or someone else which results in me unintentionally ignoring people or injecting myself into other peoples conversations. I was a part of a small sangha for a little bit, and while the teachers urged me to keep returning, I sometimes felt that I made the other sangha members uncomfortable.

I strongly desire to become a part of a sangha and get a dharma teacher but I am so scared of doing so that I have put it off for years. I fear that I will make others uncomfortable by showing up to teachings and that they will wish I do not return and it will sour their whole group dynamic if I do keep returning.

I am trying hard to recognize these patterns of mine and to change them for the better. I feel fairly confident I have improved with this and I don’t believe it is an overwhelming, constant problem. Here and there people will strike up conversations with me, invite me to things, seem to view me favorably, etc. Still, it does seem to be a significant issue and I don’t want to make others uncomfortable by being weird/awkward.

I would be very grateful for some encouragement and insight on this issue. I can’t just stay isolated right?

[Ayu]

No, you cannot just stay isolated.
And many people are inconvenient for others and still they don't bother at all.

To me it sounds like professional help could be very beneficial to you, because mere consolation from internet pals probably won't change your patterns of dysfunctional estimation of your role and input on others.
Don't be shy, seek help.

[Giovanni]

Ayu’s advice is good.
I would just add that all Dharma Centers are used to people who have social anxiety. A study published a while ago suggested that more western Dharma students tend to introversion than to extroversion.
It can be an advantage.

[Queequeg]

No, you cannot just stay isolated.
And many people are inconvenient for others and still they don't bother at all.

To me it sounds like professional help could be very beneficial to you, because mere consolation from internet pals probably won't change your patterns of dysfunctional estimation of your role and input on others.
Don't be shy, seek help.

Being awkward is hardly an offense. Don't give up.

[Johnny Dangerous]

I would try some professional help, there are tools to deal with these feelings so that you can do what you want.

I will tell you though as a sufferer myself, people simply aren’t thinking about us or noticing our behavior as often as it seems. The anxious thoughts tell us that, but it’s not reality. People are generally focused on themselves, and some are likely even having similar -if less intense- worries about themselve.

Anxiety states actually alter thinking, getting some tools to deal with them and education on what it is really helped me to make peace with it, and not have it dictate my life.

[Konchog Thogme Jampa]

Hello DW friends,

I have struggled with intense feelings of anxiety when interacting with other people since I was very little. I frequently act in an awkward way that I believe makes others uncomfortable. For example, sometimes I can’t tell if people are talking to me or someone else which results in me unintentionally ignoring people or injecting myself into other peoples conversations. I was a part of a small sangha for a little bit, and while the teachers urged me to keep returning, I sometimes felt that I made the other sangha members uncomfortable.

I strongly desire to become a part of a sangha and get a dharma teacher but I am so scared of doing so that I have put it off for years. I fear that I will make others uncomfortable by showing up to teachings and that they will wish I do not return and it will sour their whole group dynamic if I do keep returning.

I am trying hard to recognize these patterns of mine and to change them for the better. I feel fairly confident I have improved with this and I don’t believe it is an overwhelming, constant problem. Here and there people will strike up conversations with me, invite me to things, seem to view me favorably, etc. Still, it does seem to be a significant issue and I don’t want to make others uncomfortable by being weird/awkward.

I would be very grateful for some encouragement and insight on this issue. I can’t just stay isolated right?

Recite Om mani padme hum I think that would help a lot

[escavetta]

I may not have any deep insights for you, but I can empathise as I have similar social anxiety in groups. To me it feels like a fear that I will say or do something incorrect and be judged as someone with incorrect views or worse. This was a reason I almost didn’t attend teachings in a small sangha while I was living overseas. In the end, I forced myself to attend and mostly listened, not speaking with those around me. I felt awkward yes, but the benefits from listening to the dharma talks far outweighed that impermanent feeling of anxiety, which is really just an afflictive emotion that will dissipate with time. Truth is that with each time that anxiety becomes less and less as you acclimate to an environment.

It also helped me to just meditate while observing the anxiety without judgment and ask myself what the anxiety is really, what is its ‘nature’. Perhaps developing the feeling of interconnectedness might also help. Visualizing self and others as part of the same whole, extending kindness and compassion to all sentient beings, might also help to reduce that feeling of ourself from being an object of others’ subjective view. We are all in this together.

All that being said, as an introvert, I’ve also been content to connect with teachings online during the pandemic. There are some good dharma programs online now, which form a sort of virtual sangha.

[PadmaVonSamba]

Another word for anxiety is dread. But I think dread is a better word, because it seems more directly active some how. I can say that I am anxious about doing something, but saying I dread doing something, it’s like that’s the very last thing I ever want to have to face.

Dread is all about anticipation and not knowing. It’s projecting the mind forward into what might or might not be, and then trying to juggle that uncertainty in the dark. For some people with autism, this anxiety or dread is very difficult to overcome, because the brain has difficulty processing the information needed for self reassurance.

I think the Buddhist view on this is that the mind is distracted by thoughts about the future, rather than being in the present moment. So the thing to do (buddhist advice, not medical advice) is to refocus the mind in the present moment.

Maybe that is easier said than done, but it is not impossible, and regular sitting meditation will help, because in sitting meditation, when distractive thoughts of the future or the past pop up in the mind, we practice not indulging them, and instead return to the meditation focus (usually that’s watching the breath). Instead of indulging them, you just let thoughts evaporate.

But what if you aren’t meditating right now, but instead, entering a room full of people? You can still break that experience down into a series of one-step-at-a-time ‘now’ moments: “I am at the door. How is that going? It’s fine”. ‘I am going through the door…that’s okay too.’ ‘I am in the crowded room, just focusing on the present moment, not worrying about “what if” …and “what if” really doesn’t matter too much anyway, does it? The point is to just remain in the present, which is known, even if the present means being anxious, and not projecting into the unknown.

[PowerfulCrumbs]

Wow, thank you all for the kind words and advice.

You are totally right Ayu, what I need most of all is professional help with these issues. I have been noodling on/procrastinating getting therapy for some time. I think I will use this a nudge to just schedule an appt.

Even though advice/consolation from internet strangers is not a solution to these issues, you all make me feel heard and for that I am very grateful.

I currently meditate for 10 minutes a day according to instructions from Tergar’s Joy of Living online program. It has been tremendously helpful and I have received some great help from the teachers there.

And you are right Padma, I am finding that with daily meditation I more often notice when I am lost in thought throughout my day. And when I notice my thoughts they have less power over me.

That piece about autism making it harder to resolve the juggling of what might or might not be rings true. I am seeking a diagnosis for autism at the moment.

Thank you Giovanni and Queequeg for giving me some perspective and encouragement.

It’s very helpful for me to hear your experience escavetta. This is similar to my struggle with attending a small sangha. Similar to you, I forced myself to go and despite being hard it was always so incredibly worthwhile.

I will try chanting more om mani peme hum Konchog.

It’s true Johnny, people simply aren’t thinking about me 99% of the time. I will go get some help with this so I have tools to deal with it. Thanks.

[Johnny Dangerous]

If you are interested in self-help with these things, you might check out Martin Seif and Sally Winston or Stephen C. Hayes. They have done lots of accessible work on dealing with anxiety generally.

In my experience dealing with social anxiety was about a shift in perspective. Anxiety is not something that can be “fixed”, it is a functional part of human wiring that goes awry with the kinds of situations we face in modernity.

On the Autism diagnosis, I have people close to me were misdiagnosed with all sorts of stuff only to find they were actually on the spectrum as adults. The difference has been huge because they had spent so many years using protocols that weren’t helping them. Once they got some insight into how things like sensory sensitivity affected them, it made a huge difference on energy level, ability to socialize, and all sorts of other stuff.

So, it is one situation where I have seen an accurate diagnosis make a really big difference for people

[Nicholas2727]

I also have some social anxiety myself and for me the best thing to do is just go. It will be uncomfortable the first couple times, but eventually people will recognize you, conversation will start, and the situation will not be so anxiety provoking. Like others have said, professional help is probably best, but exposure therapy like this is not a bad idea imo.

[PadmaVonSamba]

What most people do (which you may not be aware of) is that they just fake it. I know that there is a difference between ordinary nervousness or shyness, and chronic, medically diagnosable anxiety. But let’s face it: everyone wears a mask.

But unless nobody every tells, you might never know that in a room full of people who all seem relaxed and confident, maybe half are feeling super self-conscious and worried about how others are viewing them. They just don’t show it.

And the reason why faking it works is because most people are already so absorbed into their own mind space anyway, into their own inner trip, they won’t know if you are faking it or not.

This is the kind of stuff they don’t teach you in school.

[SkyFox]

What most people do (which you may not be aware of) is that they just fake it. I know that there is a difference between ordinary nervousness or shyness, and chronic, medically diagnosable anxiety. But let’s face it: everyone wears a mask.

And the reason why faking it works is because most people are already so absorbed into their own mind space anyway, into their own inner trip, they won’t know if you are faking it or not.

Couldn't agree with this more. However, if you scrutinize closely enough, you can certainly tell because words and actions are just symptoms or reflections of the inner world. I have not met one person who has flawlessly don on a mask; I don't think it's possible, because I've tried for over a decade and met many fakers too, and people who are truly undisturbed will carry themselves in a way that distinguishes them from others.

My Aunt, for example, does this thing where she will obsessively comment on how beautiful my sister's hair is and has been doing it for years, but most people think she is just being nice. From my perspective, however, I'm pretty sure she is dealing with mental health issues and insecurities due to her own hair loss and due to being bullied as a child; the comments are just a reflection of her own problems.

[Johnny Dangerous]

Having some insight into anxiety, and being able accept it as it is makes a big difference. Not being able to tolerate the symptoms of anxiety (including social anxiety) is paradoxically the thing that makes it so difficult.

There’s actually a fair amount of research indicating this now. Everyone gets nervous, people with social anxiety and similar have a harder time tolerating the nervousness. If you think about it, there are places where social hyper vigilance might come in handy, some of us just have a hard time turning it down.

Once someone can accept being nervous and anxious, the thoughts that will come with that, the physical sensations, and note their relative predictability, they are not as big of a struggle.

But yes, social interactions are all “masks” for the most part. Even people who are fairly authentic and relaxed pick and choose what they show based on social cues and norms.

[SkyFox]

Having some insight into anxiety, and being able accept it as it is makes a big difference. Not being able to tolerate the symptoms of anxiety (including social anxiety) is paradoxically the thing that makes it so difficult.

Everyone gets nervous, people with social anxiety and similar have a harder time tolerating the nervousness. If you think about it, there are places where social hyper vigilance might come in handy, some of us just have a hard time turning it down.

Anxiety, nervousness, fear, etc... were once emotions that actually helped us survive; imagine seeing a lion and not being nervous or fearful; however, now a days, for many people, it has become irrational. Some people can't even leave the house for fear of judgment.

And yes I agree, it is most important that one recognizes and accept those feelings. I had extreme anxiety for so many years without realizing it and the symptoms because I was in denial. I just laughed a lot and thought of it as being friendly. It was only later on and after many terrible experiences during social interactions did I realize how unnatural I was acting, and the laugh was just an escape mechanism to protect myself. It's funny, even insanity feels normal after a while.

[PowerfulCrumbs]

A quick update: I went to my town’s local sangha gathering just now! I’m so glad I went. Quit a lot of anxiety as I approached the building but it quickly reduced once I was inside. I’m not sure what to call this, but when I walked inside I felt like I was walking into a kind of meditation forcefield. It was similar to how it felt when I attended a weekend retreat some years back and the lama walked into the room. I am guessing there were people there who have a very strong practice. It was easier than usual to meditate and notice my mind’s habitual grasping.

Thank you all again for your responses to this post. They gave me the nudge I needed to just go to the gathering. I will go back next week and ask some practice questions I feel inspired to practice and study more. This was exactly what I needed.

[Konchog Thogme Jampa]

A quick update: I went to my town’s local sangha gathering just now! I’m so glad I went. Quit a lot of anxiety as I approached the building but it quickly reduced once I was inside. I’m not sure what to call this, but when I walked inside I felt like I was walking into a kind of meditation forcefield. It was similar to how it felt when I attended a weekend retreat some years back and the lama walked into the room. I am guessing there were people there who have a very strong practice. It was easier than usual to meditate and notice my mind’s habitual grasping.

Thank you all again for your responses to this post. They gave me the nudge I needed to just go to the gathering. I will go back next week and ask some practice questions I feel inspired to practice and study more. This was exactly what I needed.

Well done