When we say "enlightenment in one lifetime"...

Forum for discussion of Tibetan Buddhism. Questions specific to one school are best posted in the appropriate sub-forum.
Nalanda
Posts: 646
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2021 4:35 am

When we say "enlightenment in one lifetime"...

Post by Nalanda »

Is that doctrinally referring to the same complete enlightenment of a samyaksambuddha?

And if it is, what makes it so powerful/fast that the perfection/paramitas in the Greater Vehicle seem to take a long time?
IF YOU PRACTICE WITH A STRONG BELIEF IN WHAT
YOU ARE DOING, THEN THERE IS NO LIMIT TO WHAT
YOU CAN ACCOMPLISH WITH YOUR PRACTICE.

CHAKUNG JIGME WANGDRAK RINPOCHE

User avatar
PadmaVonSamba
Posts: 9398
Joined: Sat May 14, 2011 1:41 am

Re: When we say "enlightenment in one lifetime"...

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

In Vajrayana, you might say that samsara itself becomes the path.
EMPTIFUL.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
Malcolm
Posts: 42974
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: When we say "enlightenment in one lifetime"...

Post by Malcolm »

Nalanda wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 6:54 pm Is that doctrinally referring to the same complete enlightenment of a samyaksambuddha?
Yes.
And if it is, what makes it so powerful/fast that the perfection/paramitas in the Greater Vehicle seem to take a long time?
Special methods.
User avatar
Konchog1
Posts: 1673
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2011 4:30 am

Re: When we say "enlightenment in one lifetime"...

Post by Konchog1 »

Malcolm wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 7:53 pm Special methods.
Specifically, according to Lama Tsongkhapa, taking the result as the path. Thus the Perfections vehicle is causal Mahayana, and Vajra vehicle is resultant Mahayana.
Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.

-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra

"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."

-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats
Kai lord
Posts: 1145
Joined: Sun May 15, 2022 2:38 am

Re: When we say "enlightenment in one lifetime"...

Post by Kai lord »

Nalanda wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 6:54 pm And if it is, what makes it so powerful/fast that the perfection/paramitas in the Greater Vehicle seem to take a long time?
The accumulation of merits is done much faster without requiring three countless aeons.
Life is like a game, either you win or lose!
Life is like a fight, either you live or die!
Life is like a show, either you laugh or cry!
Life is like a dream, either you know or not!!!
User avatar
MaitreyaBuddha
Posts: 53
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2022 5:31 pm

Re: When we say "enlightenment in one lifetime"...

Post by MaitreyaBuddha »

Yes, it refers to the enlightenment of a samyaksambuddha, enlightenment is enlightenment, the recognition of one's true nature as Dharmakaya(which is totally non-dual).

Karmic samskaras/obscurations are the prime reason the paramitas can seem so arduous.

Hope that answers the question!
User avatar
Tao
Posts: 390
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:05 am
Location: Barcelona, Spain
Contact:

Re: When we say "enlightenment in one lifetime"...

Post by Tao »

Upayas as said before
Inedible
Posts: 274
Joined: Sun May 02, 2021 6:00 am

Re: When we say "enlightenment in one lifetime"...

Post by Inedible »

Nalanda wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 6:54 pm And if it is, what makes it so powerful/fast that the perfection/paramitas in the Greater Vehicle seem to take a long time?
The honest answer is that it isn't true. Think about the last time you even heard of someone reaching the goal and how that was received. No one believed it because it can't happen and anyone who says otherwise is lying automatically.
Nalanda
Posts: 646
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2021 4:35 am

Re: When we say "enlightenment in one lifetime"...

Post by Nalanda »

Well, it is a sect's assumed / definite position so I don't think that reply is necessary in this particular room. :thinking:
IF YOU PRACTICE WITH A STRONG BELIEF IN WHAT
YOU ARE DOING, THEN THERE IS NO LIMIT TO WHAT
YOU CAN ACCOMPLISH WITH YOUR PRACTICE.

CHAKUNG JIGME WANGDRAK RINPOCHE

User avatar
Aryjna
Posts: 1625
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:45 pm

Re: When we say "enlightenment in one lifetime"...

Post by Aryjna »

Inedible wrote: Sat Jul 02, 2022 6:31 am The honest answer is that it isn't true. Think about the last time you even heard of someone reaching the goal and how that was received. No one believed it because it can't happen and anyone who says otherwise is lying automatically.
It has nothing to do with honesty. This is your own unfounded assertion based purely on your own experience and anecdotal evidence.
User avatar
Tao
Posts: 390
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:05 am
Location: Barcelona, Spain
Contact:

Re: When we say "enlightenment in one lifetime"...

Post by Tao »

Aryjna wrote: Sat Jul 02, 2022 7:02 am
Inedible wrote: Sat Jul 02, 2022 6:31 am The honest answer is that it isn't true. Think about the last time you even heard of someone reaching the goal and how that was received. No one believed it because it can't happen and anyone who says otherwise is lying automatically.
It has nothing to do with honesty. This is your own unfounded assertion based purely on your own experience and anecdotal evidence.
I think Inedible was trying to say that we always affirm that this is possible, but when someone says "I did it", we all say "It's not possible for you, you are lying". :D

I think in the end he thinks is possible (and I do), but it's better to not talk too much at fora. Not the best place for that claimings
Inedible
Posts: 274
Joined: Sun May 02, 2021 6:00 am

Re: When we say "enlightenment in one lifetime"...

Post by Inedible »

Buddha spent 3 eons so you don't have to.

And even he had people who didn't believe him about reaching the goal.

If you are seriously working toward Buddhahood, you probably didn't start in this lifetime. It is more about finishing the job than doing the entire thing. No one can tell you if you are getting close to it or if you have a long way to go. If I didn't believe it was possible I wouldn't be here. The odds are terrible, and it takes a great deal of faith to keep going anyway.
User avatar
PadmaVonSamba
Posts: 9398
Joined: Sat May 14, 2011 1:41 am

Re: When we say "enlightenment in one lifetime"...

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

Inedible wrote: Sat Jul 02, 2022 6:31 am
Nalanda wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 6:54 pm And if it is, what makes it so powerful/fast that the perfection/paramitas in the Greater Vehicle seem to take a long time?
The honest answer is that it isn't true. Think about the last time you even heard of someone reaching the goal and how that was received. No one believed it because it can't happen and anyone who says otherwise is lying automatically.
Everybody wipes their butt yet very few people advertise it to others. Just because you never heard of anyone attaining in this lifetime full liberation from rebirth in samsara certainly doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen a lot more than you’d think.

The famous teacher of a Thai monk I know passed away late last summer. Apparently he showed all of the signs of having attained full arhatship, nibbana, according to the system they use. Many lamas also show signs at the time of death of having attained pure realization.
EMPTIFUL.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
Inedible
Posts: 274
Joined: Sun May 02, 2021 6:00 am

Re: When we say "enlightenment in one lifetime"...

Post by Inedible »

Most people wipe their butts. That's a great way of bringing the conversation to a practical level. Several years ago I read that most people tend to have an average of 14 milligrams of leftovers after wiping.

https://metro.co.uk/2017/10/28/sorry-bu ... m-7033924/

So that's what I have to say about that.

I have met with Dharma teachers in person. Most of my experiences have been bad. A few have been neutral, but only because they didn't last very long. I understand that this is my fault, but I would like to meet a teacher who is willing to admit to having knowledge and experience to share. I keep meeting the kind who will only admit to having read a few books.
Archie2009
Posts: 1577
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2020 10:39 pm

Re: When we say "enlightenment in one lifetime"...

Post by Archie2009 »

Inedible wrote: Sat Jul 02, 2022 6:31 am
Nalanda wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 6:54 pm And if it is, what makes it so powerful/fast that the perfection/paramitas in the Greater Vehicle seem to take a long time?
The honest answer is that it isn't true. Think about the last time you even heard of someone reaching the goal and how that was received. No one believed it because it can't happen and anyone who says otherwise is lying automatically.
Inedible wrote: Sun Jul 03, 2022 8:08 am I have met with Dharma teachers in person. Most of my experiences have been bad. A few have been neutral, but only because they didn't last very long. I understand that this is my fault, but I would like to meet a teacher who is willing to admit to having knowledge and experience to share. I keep meeting the kind who will only admit to having read a few books.
With such an attitude nothing is going to happen for you in this lifetime. That's your karma. If you think absolutely everybody is full of shit, it's your own stench you're smelling.
Nalanda
Posts: 646
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2021 4:35 am

Re: When we say "enlightenment in one lifetime"...

Post by Nalanda »

What's with all the smelly reference. I use bidet. Thank you.

When Vajrayana in ancient India was emerging, did it get some healthy pushbacks from regular Mahayanist peers? Were there big declaration of Mahayana criticisms, objections or questions about this new orientation?

What I know from a certain book is that in Nalanda, Vajrayanists were keeping some of their beliefs tightly undercover so as not to offend the Mahayanists.

I'd be curious to read some references or books you could point me to.

Thanks
IF YOU PRACTICE WITH A STRONG BELIEF IN WHAT
YOU ARE DOING, THEN THERE IS NO LIMIT TO WHAT
YOU CAN ACCOMPLISH WITH YOUR PRACTICE.

CHAKUNG JIGME WANGDRAK RINPOCHE

Kai lord
Posts: 1145
Joined: Sun May 15, 2022 2:38 am

Re: When we say "enlightenment in one lifetime"...

Post by Kai lord »

Nalanda wrote: Sun Jul 03, 2022 10:26 am When Vajrayana in ancient India was emerging, did it get some healthy pushbacks from regular Mahayanist peers? Were there big declaration of Mahayana criticisms, objections or questions about this new orientation?
You could probably guess what some of the pushbacks were from the stories of the Mahasiddhas:

1) Alleged unauthenticity (as in the case of Vairocana when he tried to teach and spread Dzogchen as an independent vehicle/practice in Tibet but never get widespread or popular)

2) Being a "sex" cult (Major reasons on why Vajrayana never really took hold in China)

3) Accusation of being crypto Hindu or Vedanta (Because of the superficial similarities in Buddhist Yidams to the Avatars of Shiva used by kashmir shaivism)

4) Perceived violations of monk/Sangha vows (As in the case of Virupa and other Mahasiddhas)

This should be enough for now.
Life is like a game, either you win or lose!
Life is like a fight, either you live or die!
Life is like a show, either you laugh or cry!
Life is like a dream, either you know or not!!!
Inedible
Posts: 274
Joined: Sun May 02, 2021 6:00 am

Re: When we say "enlightenment in one lifetime"...

Post by Inedible »

Archie2009 wrote: Sun Jul 03, 2022 9:38 am If you think absolutely everybody is full of shit, it's your own stench you're smelling.
When people tell you about themselves, believe them. They tell me. I believe them. Just like you have drawn conclusions about me.
User avatar
PadmaVonSamba
Posts: 9398
Joined: Sat May 14, 2011 1:41 am

Re: When we say "enlightenment in one lifetime"...

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

Inedible wrote: Sun Jul 03, 2022 8:08 am
I have met with Dharma teachers in person. Most of my experiences have been bad. A few have been neutral, but only because they didn't last very long. I understand that this is my fault, but I would like to meet a teacher who is willing to admit to having knowledge and experience to share. I keep meeting the kind who will only admit to having read a few books.
That’s unfortunate, because there are many excellent and qualified teachers, trained in the east, living in the west. Also many qualified western-born teachers. Quite a few regularly live-stream teachings on Facebook. What country do you live in? Which type of Buddhist tradition do you seem most drawn to?

With regards to “admitting” they have knowledge, most qualified teachers, unless you are asking about a specific practice, will say, “my knowledge is limited” and make other seemingly self-effacing statements. This is not done out of false modesty.
It’s like asking the world’s top astronomer if they are an expert on the universe, or even the solar system, and they will tell you that compared to what can be known, what they know would not fill a teaspoon. Also, anything they say about themselves will plant an image on your mind, and you may generate all kinds of unrealistic expectations.

I’m very fortunate to have known and been able to get teachings from a few highly learned and realized lamas. 60 years ago, you would have had to travel to the Himalayas, or Japan, Korea, Taiwan, hope to find a teacher willing to teach a foreigner, and then learn their language. Today you can find very good, even great teachers, within a hundred miles of many major cities.

Please keep in mind, their job is to teach the Buddhadharma. They aren’t here to fulfill your expectations.
EMPTIFUL.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
Archie2009
Posts: 1577
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2020 10:39 pm

Re: When we say "enlightenment in one lifetime"...

Post by Archie2009 »

Inedible wrote: Sun Jul 03, 2022 2:39 pm
Archie2009 wrote: Sun Jul 03, 2022 9:38 am If you think absolutely everybody is full of shit, it's your own stench you're smelling.
When people tell you about themselves, believe them. They tell me. I believe them. Just like you have drawn conclusions about me.
Why would anybody tell a cynic?
Post Reply

Return to “Tibetan Buddhism”