Sudden Awakening

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Tao
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Re: Sudden Awakening

Post by Tao »

> live for a hundred eons,

So not known person reached first bhumi not even Buddha?

What a exotic text!
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Astus
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Re: Sudden Awakening

Post by Astus »

Tao wrote: Fri Jul 08, 2022 8:44 amSo not known person reached first bhumi not even Buddha?
From A Bird in Flight Leaves No Trace (2.4):

Huangbo: 'Even though [you may attain] bodhi, suchness, the characteristic of reality, liberation, or the dharma body and directly reach the sanctified ranks of the ten stages or the four fruitions, all these involve the [expedient] gate of salvation. They have nothing to do with the buddha mind.'
Commentary: 'All gradual stages are far removed from the Way. Turn one thought around and realize completely the fact that a buddha’s nature and your nature are not different.'

Huangbo: 'Only if there are no states of mind involving birth and death, defilements, and so forth is there then no need for such dharmas as bodhi.'
Commentary: 'There is nothing that can be named “mind.” It is not that the mind does not exist; rather, it reveals itself as causes and conditions are produced. Whether good or evil, there is no exception to this rule.
There is neither birth and death nor defilements; they are all shadows created through corresponding causes and conditions. Not knowing this fact, people try to remove all these shadows. If they suddenly turn one thought around and realize that all shadows are originally empty, their minds will be at rest. If this happens, not only birth and death and defilements but also nirvāṇa and bodhi will be at rest. Whether it is this or that is all relative. Therefore, if one is extinguished, the other will naturally be extinguished as well.'
1 Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.


1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"
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curtstein
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Re: Sudden Awakening

Post by curtstein »

> live for a hundred eons,

So not known person reached first bhumi not even Buddha?

What a exotic text!
It is not necessarily the case that no "known person" has ever reached this state. The being who has attained the first bhumi can, theoretically, appear in whatever way is most helpful to sentient beings. In particular, they can appear as a "normal" human being with a normal lifespan and without necessarily displaying any supernormal powers.

Whatever capabilities 1st Bhumi beings might possess, there is no need for them to display such capabilities unless it would somehow help deluded sentient beings to become less deluded.

In my opinion, the most important point about this teaching is to tamp down the tendency for deluded beings to imagine that they are more advanced than they actually are. That is, one should not go around using such descriptions to evaluate what Bhumi someone else may or may not be on, but rather one should look at oneself and realize just how far one still has to go.

Also, as far as the text being exotic, the Avatamsaka would make an excellent science fiction novel for sure, but it is nevertheless a central teaching of Mahayana Buddhism and all schools accept it and study it.

And many thanks to Astus for pointing out that this is straight from the Sutra!
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Tao
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Re: Sudden Awakening

Post by Tao »

>would make an excellent science fiction novel for sure, but it is nevertheless a central teaching of Mahayana Buddhism and all schools accept it and study it.

I can respect what others believe and the text, but for me both things are contradictory, I wont follow sci-fi novels... maybe I can read it in a metaphorical way, that's all and will be a nice reading...

It's clear to me that many old masters were a lot farther than first bhumi and they didnt get anywhere similar to that description, they were very far from it in fact. Even Buddha died at his eighties in a very conventional way.

The argument that "stages are removed in Zen or Mahayana" is a bit poor because even if stages are removed, a Buddha couldnt be less than a first bhumi bodhisattva so he should have their characteristics and more. And they dont have it by far. I dont want to even read second, third... tenth bhumi... it's quite crazy (well in fact I read them in the past but skipping parts).

But thank you all. I'm too terrenal for this... and the whole buddhist history and biographies contradict that text.

:bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:
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