The Bendowa and Teachers in Zen

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FiveSkandhas
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The Bendowa and Teachers in Zen

Post by FiveSkandhas »

Near the beginning of the Bendowa, Master Dogen writes:
There may be true students who are not concerned with fame and gain who allow their aspiration for enlightenment to guide them and earnestly desire to practice the buddha way. They may be misguided by incapable teachers and obstructed from the correct understanding, and intoxicated in confusion they may sink into the realm of delusion for a long time. How can they nourish the correct seed of prajna and encounter the time of attaining the way? Since I am wandering about, which mountain or river can they call on? Because of my concern for them, I would like to record the standards of Zen monasteries which I personally saw and heard in Great Song as well as the profound principle which has been transmitted by my master. I wish to leave for students of the way the authentic teaching of the buddha house. This is indeed the essence
This seems to suggest rather explicitly that what follows is an instructional text that can be used for “true students” to guide their practice.

While like most forms of Buddhism, Soto shu and Master Dogen repeatedly stress the importance of finding a true teacher, Soto is not Vajrayana and thus can in theory be practiced without special empowerments, initiations, etc.

And yet “face to face transmission” is repeatedly stressed as essential or all but essential for true Zen education. Master Dogen and his heirs as well as predecessors stress this again and again. Here is an example from the same text as the above quote:
When genuine trust arises, practice and study with a teacher. If it does not, wait for a while. It is regrettable if you have not received the beneficence of the buddha dharma.
… What a pity, indeed!
Just understand that when a master who has attained the way with a clear mind authentically transmits to a student who has merged with realization, then the wondrous dharma of the Seven Original Buddhas, in its essence, is actualized and maintained. This cannot be known by those who study words. Therefore, set aside your doubt, practice zazen under an authentic teacher, and actualize buddhas’ receptive samadhi.


And to further add grist for the mill, Zen has long admitted the possibility of Mushi-dokugo (無師独悟), also called jigo-jishō (自悟自証, self-enlightened and self-certified), i"awakening alone, without a master". Although generally suspicious, Zen is full of famous Masters who have claimed this status, and Master Dogen himself admits the possibility.

So tell me, Zen scholars, how should we understand the Bendowa? Can it serve as a substitute for a master, as suggested by the first quote? Or is practice useless without a realized master, as later suggested in the same work? And are the “self realized” rare and lofty exceptions that should be seen as too unusual to imitate, or inspiration for the lonely meditator?

I’m well aware that DharmaWheel takes a rather dim view of masterless practice of anything at all, save possibly pure land (and even there a master is usually seen as best). It’s an opinion I am sympathetic to myself.

Nevertheless, the Bendowa has always been an enigma. I ask you to open your mind for a moment and at least consider the possibility. Then I would most sincerely welcome your ideas.
"One should cultivate contemplation in one’s foibles. The foibles are like fish, and contemplation is like fishing hooks. If there are no fish, then the fishing hooks have no use. The bigger the fish is, the better the result we will get. As long as the fishing hooks keep at it, all foibles will eventually be contained and controlled at will." -Zhiyi

"Just be kind." -Atisha
master of puppets
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Re: The Bendowa and Teachers in Zen

Post by master of puppets »

Buddha has no teachers.

Since he became our teacher; it becomes a tradition to have one. :)

Whenever ı ask a question myself, ı find an answer!!
Last edited by master of puppets on Sun Jun 12, 2022 1:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
narhwal90
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Re: The Bendowa and Teachers in Zen

Post by narhwal90 »

Before the bodhi tree Sakyamuni certainly did have teachers. As the story goes, he learned various meditation techniques and disciplines which ultimately were not what he was looking for. Learning what you don't want to keep doing is valuable instruction.
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Re: The Bendowa and Teachers in Zen

Post by Malcolm »

FiveSkandhas wrote: Sun Jun 12, 2022 12:36 pm
So tell me, Zen scholars, how should we understand the Bendowa? Can it serve as a substitute for a master, as suggested by the first quote? Or is practice useless without a realized master, as later suggested in the same work?
Not a Zen scholar, but the first quote suggests to me that Dogen was recording how Chan was practiced as an institutional practice in China. I do not perceive a contradiction here with his later assertion in the same text generally speaking one needs a teacher.
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Re: The Bendowa and Teachers in Zen

Post by Genjo Conan »

I think "the way of the authentic teaching" includes studying with a teacher.

Edit: I'm not trying to be glib, I just don't think in this case that the answer is much more complicated than that. Elsewhere (possibly in Bendowa or in Fukanzazengi, I'm on my phone and not with my books) he writes something like "if you don't have a realized teacher, it's better not to practice at all." Elsewhere (maybe in the Eihei Koroku or the Zuimonki?) he writes something like "Zen students shouldn't bother saying the nembutsu but it's ok for people who can't find a teacher." I think you have to read the arguably ambiguous passage in Bendowa against the other, unambiguous passages that he wrote throughout his career emphasizing the importance of studying with a teacher.
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clyde
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Re: The Bendowa and Teachers in Zen

Post by clyde »

Good question. It’s another, more thoughtful way to ask what I was asking in Why?

I think the Buddha had an answer to at least one-half of the matter.
Then the Blessed One said to Ven. Ananda, "Now, if it occurs to any of you — 'The teaching has lost its authority; we are without a Teacher' — do not view it in that way. Whatever Dhamma & Vinaya I have pointed out & formulated for you, that will be your Teacher when I am gone.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
The Buddha did not designate an heir, but said the Dharma would be our Teacher.

Of course, in the Buddha’s time and for generations the Dharma was only available by hearing a learned monk teach the Dharma and then for even more generations after the Dharma had been written the Dharma was available only to those few who could read and to those who heard the Dharma taught. Now the Dharma is available to all but those unable to read.

Having said that, it also seems clear that Buddhist traditions have their own set of requirements, and Soto Zen has its set. To be recognized as a Soto Zen student and certainly to teach in the Soto Zen tradition one must have the approval and confirmation of a Soto Zen teacher.
“Enlightenment means to see what harm you are involved in and to renounce it.” David Brazier, The New Buddhism

“The most straightforward advice on awakening enlightened mind is this: practice not causing harm to anyone—yourself or others—and every day, do what you can to be helpful.” Pema Chodron, “What to Do When the Going Gets Rough”
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Astus
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Re: The Bendowa and Teachers in Zen

Post by Astus »

FiveSkandhas wrote: Sun Jun 12, 2022 12:36 pmAnd yet “face to face transmission” is repeatedly stressed as essential or all but essential for true Zen education.
It is stated to be essential not for education but for certification. As Dumoulin (in Zen Buddhism: Japan, p 70) have noted, Dogen's insistence on direct meeting is a rather direct rejection of the Daruma school (more on Sotoshu and Darumashu). And the current emphasis on it in Sotoshu began in the late 17th century against other forms of transmission (see a summary here).
Can it serve as a substitute for a master, as suggested by the first quote?
No. The teacher, at least a more capable one, can fit the needs of the student, unlike any text.
Or is practice useless without a realized master, as later suggested in the same work?
No. Proper practice is never useless. Improper practice is. As for what proper practice is, there's already a lot of explanations for that, like on the official Sotoshu homepage here.
1 Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.


1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"
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Re: The Bendowa and Teachers in Zen

Post by narhwal90 »

clyde wrote: Sun Jun 12, 2022 8:17 pm
Having said that, it also seems clear that Buddhist traditions have their own set of requirements, and Soto Zen has its set. To be recognized as a Soto Zen student and certainly to teach in the Soto Zen tradition one must have the approval and confirmation of a Soto Zen teacher.
In my case after half a year or so of regular attendance I asked the roshi if I could work with him as a teacher, he said OK and off we went. He asked only that I get the Shingi, study it, participate in the sangha to a reasonable degree, and do the work.
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clyde
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Re: The Bendowa and Teachers in Zen

Post by clyde »

narhwal90 wrote: Sun Jun 12, 2022 11:00 pm
clyde wrote: Sun Jun 12, 2022 8:17 pm
Having said that, it also seems clear that Buddhist traditions have their own set of requirements, and Soto Zen has its set. To be recognized as a Soto Zen student and certainly to teach in the Soto Zen tradition one must have the approval and confirmation of a Soto Zen teacher.
In my case after half a year or so of regular attendance I asked the roshi if I could work with him as a teacher, he said OK and off we went. He asked only that I get the Shingi, study it, participate in the sangha to a reasonable degree, and do the work.
Yes, to become a Zen student is not difficult. People, myself included, often say that this person and that person and my spouse, my pet, everyone, nature, etc. are my teachers. That may be. But my criteria for whether someone is a Zen student is whether a Zen teacher recognizes them and would say, “This is my student.”

I am unclaimed.
“Enlightenment means to see what harm you are involved in and to renounce it.” David Brazier, The New Buddhism

“The most straightforward advice on awakening enlightened mind is this: practice not causing harm to anyone—yourself or others—and every day, do what you can to be helpful.” Pema Chodron, “What to Do When the Going Gets Rough”
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Re: The Bendowa and Teachers in Zen

Post by narhwal90 »

clyde wrote: Sun Jun 12, 2022 11:48 pm
narhwal90 wrote: Sun Jun 12, 2022 11:00 pm
clyde wrote: Sun Jun 12, 2022 8:17 pm
Having said that, it also seems clear that Buddhist traditions have their own set of requirements, and Soto Zen has its set. To be recognized as a Soto Zen student and certainly to teach in the Soto Zen tradition one must have the approval and confirmation of a Soto Zen teacher.
In my case after half a year or so of regular attendance I asked the roshi if I could work with him as a teacher, he said OK and off we went. He asked only that I get the Shingi, study it, participate in the sangha to a reasonable degree, and do the work.
Yes, to become a Zen student is not difficult. People, myself included, often say that this person and that person and my spouse, my pet, everyone, nature, etc. are my teachers. That may be. But my criteria for whether someone is a Zen student is whether a Zen teacher recognizes them and would say, “This is my student.”

I am unclaimed.
Don't know why it has to be complicated; ask a guy to be your teacher, if he says yes then you're the student and you can get busy. Doesn't really matter what people say, its only up to you and the teacher. But if you're after a trophy teacher thats a different story I guess.
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