HYT Wangs

jmlee369
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Re: HYT Wangs

Post by jmlee369 »

Terma wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 2:29 pm Since we are talking about daily and monthly commitments, when one takes a Father Tantra Wang, are the commitments a bit lighter?

Does one generally do guru puja once a month? Or does daily six session and monthly tsog suffice?
The commitments are pretty much the same. If you are doing the long version of the six session guru yoga, holding the uncommon vows of mother tantra only requires the additional recitation of Praise in Eight Lines and the eight uncommon vows themself. Otherwise if you do the short six session guru yoga there is no difference at all. The uncommon vows relate mostly to completion stage practice.

As Konchog mentioned, practically speaking the biggest difference is that with mother tantra, we should offer tsog on the 10th and 25th days. But I know people who were given this commitment practising just father tantra too.

While it is common practice to do Guru Puja with tsog, people who are dedicated practitioners will likely do Guru Puja without tsog everyday, it could even be their main practice. Trijang Rinpoche recounts in his autobiography one lama who he held in high regard practised only four things: Guru Puja, two major yidam cycles, and chod. It is an extremely profound practice and contains many quintessential ear-whispered instructions of our lineage. It has been tradition for those who receive the commentary to practice it every day as a commitment.
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Konchog1
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Re: HYT Wangs

Post by Konchog1 »

jmlee369 wrote: Fri Jun 10, 2022 8:25 am
Terma wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 2:29 pm Since we are talking about daily and monthly commitments, when one takes a Father Tantra Wang, are the commitments a bit lighter?

Does one generally do guru puja once a month? Or does daily six session and monthly tsog suffice?
While it is common practice to do Guru Puja with tsog, people who are dedicated practitioners will likely do Guru Puja without tsog everyday, it could even be their main practice. Trijang Rinpoche recounts in his autobiography one lama who he held in high regard practised only four things: Guru Puja, two major yidam cycles, and chod. It is an extremely profound practice and contains many quintessential ear-whispered instructions of our lineage. It has been tradition for those who receive the commentary to practice it every day as a commitment.
There are also oral instructions for adding optional Mahamudra and Tonglen and Phowa. It's a beautiful practice.
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Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
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Terma
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Re: HYT Wangs

Post by Terma »

jmlee369 wrote: Fri Jun 10, 2022 8:25 am
Terma wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 2:29 pm Since we are talking about daily and monthly commitments, when one takes a Father Tantra Wang, are the commitments a bit lighter?

Does one generally do guru puja once a month? Or does daily six session and monthly tsog suffice?
The commitments are pretty much the same. If you are doing the long version of the six session guru yoga, holding the uncommon vows of mother tantra only requires the additional recitation of Praise in Eight Lines and the eight uncommon vows themself. Otherwise if you do the short six session guru yoga there is no difference at all. The uncommon vows relate mostly to completion stage practice.

As Konchog mentioned, practically speaking the biggest difference is that with mother tantra, we should offer tsog on the 10th and 25th days. But I know people who were given this commitment practising just father tantra too.

While it is common practice to do Guru Puja with tsog, people who are dedicated practitioners will likely do Guru Puja without tsog everyday, it could even be their main practice. Trijang Rinpoche recounts in his autobiography one lama who he held in high regard practised only four things: Guru Puja, two major yidam cycles, and chod. It is an extremely profound practice and contains many quintessential ear-whispered instructions of our lineage. It has been tradition for those who receive the commentary to practice it every day as a commitment.
Wow. Thanks for the detailed response, it's quite helpful. I generally come from a Nyingma/Kaguu background where they don't visually give practice commitments, so this is all pretty new to me.

I certainly do not see it as a burden, in fact the opposite, as something that ultimately leads us towards enlightenment. For those who follow their commitments, this lineage makes it so easy to keep one's samaya which is so important when practicing higher tantras.

But I've been learning that there are often several options available for fulfilling commitments, including a few short "for emergencies" kind of texts.

I ask all these questions because commitments and samaya are very serious and important to me.

Thank you.
Terma
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Re: HYT Wangs

Post by Terma »

Terma wrote: Fri Jun 10, 2022 12:44 pm
jmlee369 wrote: Fri Jun 10, 2022 8:25 am
Terma wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 2:29 pm Since we are talking about daily and monthly commitments, when one takes a Father Tantra Wang, are the commitments a bit lighter?

Does one generally do guru puja once a month? Or does daily six session and monthly tsog suffice?
The commitments are pretty much the same. If you are doing the long version of the six session guru yoga, holding the uncommon vows of mother tantra only requires the additional recitation of Praise in Eight Lines and the eight uncommon vows themself. Otherwise if you do the short six session guru yoga there is no difference at all. The uncommon vows relate mostly to completion stage practice.

As Konchog mentioned, practically speaking the biggest difference is that with mother tantra, we should offer tsog on the 10th and 25th days. But I know people who were given this commitment practising just father tantra too.

While it is common practice to do Guru Puja with tsog, people who are dedicated practitioners will likely do Guru Puja without tsog everyday, it could even be their main practice. Trijang Rinpoche recounts in his autobiography one lama who he held in high regard practised only four things: Guru Puja, two major yidam cycles, and chod. It is an extremely profound practice and contains many quintessential ear-whispered instructions of our lineage. It has been tradition for those who receive the commentary to practice it every day as a commitment.
Wow. Thanks for the detailed response, it's quite helpful. I generally come from a Nyingma/Kaguu background where they don't visually give practice commitments, so this is all pretty new to me.

I certainly do not see it as a burden, in fact the opposite, as something that ultimately leads us towards enlightenment. For those who follow their commitments, this lineage makes it so easy to keep one's samaya which is so important when practicing higher tantras.

But I've been learning that there are often several options available for fulfilling commitments, including a few short "for emergencies" kind of texts.

I ask all these questions because commitments and samaya are very serious and important to me.

Thank you.
One more question then?

When explaining the lineage and class of tantra that the empowerment is from, do they then usually state the commitments before the actual empowerment so that was people can decide if they really wish to receive it?

Or is this not always the case?
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Lobsang Chojor
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Re: HYT Wangs

Post by Lobsang Chojor »

Terma wrote: Fri Jun 10, 2022 12:54 pm One more question then?

When explaining the lineage and class of tantra that the empowerment is from, do they then usually state the commitments before the actual empowerment so that was people can decide if they really wish to receive it?

Or is this not always the case?
Sometimes the commitments are put on the advert, IME this is quite common within the FPMT for major empowerments but the actual commitment can be a little different it depends on the day. In general you only find out the exact commitments at the end after receiving the empowerment you pledge to keep the commitments (meaning the vows) and the guru will say you should also keep XX commitment.
"Morality does not become pure unless darkness is dispelled by the light of wisdom"
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jmlee369
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Re: HYT Wangs

Post by jmlee369 »

Terma wrote: Fri Jun 10, 2022 12:54 pm One more question then?

When explaining the lineage and class of tantra that the empowerment is from, do they then usually state the commitments before the actual empowerment so that was people can decide if they really wish to receive it?

Or is this not always the case?
There are some standard commitments that people can assume will be required with highest yoga tantra initiations, but nothing is really determined until the end of the initiation when the lama announces them. As others have mentioned some groups discuss with the lama beforehand to give notice to participants, but with His Holiness' events in India that is usually not the case. With large public initiations, who knows how many people have actually received the transmission, let alone committed to doing the practice?
Soma999
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Re: HYT Wangs

Post by Soma999 »

Commitments should be presented beforehand so you can choose them in conscience if you can and want to take them. Otherwise it is like signing a contract without even knowing what’s written in it.
Malcolm
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Re: HYT Wangs

Post by Malcolm »

Soma999 wrote: Sat Jun 11, 2022 11:57 am Commitments should be presented beforehand so you can choose them in conscience if you can and want to take them. Otherwise it is like signing a contract without even knowing what’s written in it.
Yes, that is how Vajrayāna is. The samayas are themselves part of samaya, so, classically speaking, students are selected on the basis of their ability to keep secrets and the secrets are not disclosed, as well as the commitments, before hand.
Terma
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Re: HYT Wangs

Post by Terma »

Here is an update from the site of OHHDL:

"Please note that people attending the initiation are required to do the daily practice of the Luipa Chakrasamvara Sadhana (luipe dechok dakye) or al least the Triple Purification Practice (dakpa sum kyi nyeljor) of Chakrasamvara."

https://www.dalailama.com/schedule

No indication of this will be streamed yet, but I think it will.
Malcolm
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Re: HYT Wangs

Post by Malcolm »

Terma wrote: Sat Jun 11, 2022 5:43 pm Here is an update from the site of OHHDL:

"Please note that people attending the initiation are required to do the daily practice of the Luipa Chakrasamvara Sadhana (luipe dechok dakye) or al least the Triple Purification Practice (dakpa sum kyi nyeljor) of Chakrasamvara."

https://www.dalailama.com/schedule

No indication of this will be streamed yet, but I think it will.
This already happened and it was not streamed.
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Lobsang Chojor
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Re: HYT Wangs

Post by Lobsang Chojor »

Malcolm wrote: Sat Jun 11, 2022 6:16 pm This already happened and it was not streamed.
The Chakrasamvara wang is in July not June, it's still on the schedule as upcoming July 8-10
"Morality does not become pure unless darkness is dispelled by the light of wisdom"
  • Aryasura, Paramitasamasa 6.5
ༀ་ཨ་ར་པ་ཙ་ན་དྷཱི༔ Oṃ A Ra Pa Ca Na Dhīḥ
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Könchok Thrinley
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Re: HYT Wangs

Post by Könchok Thrinley »

Malcolm wrote: Sat Jun 11, 2022 6:16 pm
Terma wrote: Sat Jun 11, 2022 5:43 pm Here is an update from the site of OHHDL:

"Please note that people attending the initiation are required to do the daily practice of the Luipa Chakrasamvara Sadhana (luipe dechok dakye) or al least the Triple Purification Practice (dakpa sum kyi nyeljor) of Chakrasamvara."

https://www.dalailama.com/schedule

No indication of this will be streamed yet, but I think it will.
This already happened and it was not streamed.
Unless we all collectively skipped a month it most certainly hasn't happened yet.
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“Observing samaya involves to remain inseparable from the union of wisdom and compassion at all times, to sustain mindfulness, and to put into practice the guru’s instructions”. Garchen Rinpoche

For those who do virtuous actions,
goodness is what comes to pass.
For those who do non-virtuous actions,
that becomes suffering indeed.

- Arya Sanghata Sutra
zerwe
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Re: HYT Wangs

Post by zerwe »

Terma wrote: Sat Jun 11, 2022 5:43 pm Here is an update from the site of OHHDL:

"Please note that people attending the initiation are required to do the daily practice of the Luipa Chakrasamvara Sadhana (luipe dechok dakye) or al least the Triple Purification Practice (dakpa sum kyi nyeljor) of Chakrasamvara."

https://www.dalailama.com/schedule

No indication of this will be streamed yet, but I think it will.
According to HHDL Facebook live event it will be

Shaun :namaste:
Terma
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Re: HYT Wangs

Post by Terma »

zerwe wrote: Sat Jun 11, 2022 8:46 pm
Terma wrote: Sat Jun 11, 2022 5:43 pm Here is an update from the site of OHHDL:

"Please note that people attending the initiation are required to do the daily practice of the Luipa Chakrasamvara Sadhana (luipe dechok dakye) or al least the Triple Purification Practice (dakpa sum kyi nyeljor) of Chakrasamvara."

https://www.dalailama.com/schedule

No indication of this will be streamed yet, but I think it will.
According to HHDL Facebook live event it will be

Shaun :namaste:
This is great news. I will see what requirements are given for Jinasagara and then decide about Heruka.
Malcolm
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Re: HYT Wangs

Post by Malcolm »

Lobsang Chojor wrote: Sat Jun 11, 2022 6:37 pm
Malcolm wrote: Sat Jun 11, 2022 6:16 pm This already happened and it was not streamed.
The Chakrasamvara wang is in July not June, it's still on the schedule as upcoming July 8-10
Ok my bad
zerwe
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Re: HYT Wangs

Post by zerwe »

Terma wrote: Sat Jun 11, 2022 5:43 pm Here is an update from the site of OHHDL:

"Please note that people attending the initiation are required to do the daily practice of the Luipa Chakrasamvara Sadhana (luipe dechok dakye) or al least the Triple Purification Practice (dakpa sum kyi nyeljor) of Chakrasamvara."

https://www.dalailama.com/schedule

No indication of this will be streamed yet, but I think it will.
Thinking about this and the ongoing discussion in the other thread. One should be able to incorporate the Three Purifications Practice into one of your sessions of 6-session guru yoga. I have heard many times that everything (Kyerim and Dzogrim) can be incorporated into 6-Session guru yoga. You may want to ask a Geshe or Lama, but they both practices have the eight praises contained within it.

Shaun :namaste:
jmlee369
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Re: HYT Wangs

Post by jmlee369 »

Very interesting, I had a listen to the English, Chinese, and Korean translations. His Holiness did not specify commitments other than all the advice that he gave during the initiation such as meditating on bodhicitta and emptiness daily, etc. However both Korean and Chinese interpreters said that since tantric vows were given, the disciples should practice six session guru yoga every day.
Terma
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Re: HYT Wangs

Post by Terma »

jmlee369 wrote: Tue Jun 14, 2022 5:45 am Very interesting, I had a listen to the English, Chinese, and Korean translations. His Holiness did not specify commitments other than all the advice that he gave during the initiation such as meditating on bodhicitta and emptiness daily, etc. However both Korean and Chinese interpreters said that since tantric vows were given, the disciples should practice six session guru yoga every day.
Yes, from the English translation aside from the advice you me mentioned above, all I heard was that the initiate is to "make the four offerings six times daily." So, six session guru yoga. This was confirmed by a lama friend. Pretty light.
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Könchok Thrinley
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Re: HYT Wangs

Post by Könchok Thrinley »

Terma wrote: Tue Jun 14, 2022 6:25 am
jmlee369 wrote: Tue Jun 14, 2022 5:45 am Very interesting, I had a listen to the English, Chinese, and Korean translations. His Holiness did not specify commitments other than all the advice that he gave during the initiation such as meditating on bodhicitta and emptiness daily, etc. However both Korean and Chinese interpreters said that since tantric vows were given, the disciples should practice six session guru yoga every day.
Yes, from the English translation aside from the advice you me mentioned above, all I heard was that the initiate is to "make the four offerings six times daily." So, six session guru yoga. This was confirmed by a lama friend. Pretty light.
Oh really? I was wondering if HH would say anything about that but since nothing was mentioned at the end I assumed that nothing. :D So six session GY you say? Is there an essential text available? What about lung?
“Observing samaya involves to remain inseparable from the union of wisdom and compassion at all times, to sustain mindfulness, and to put into practice the guru’s instructions”. Garchen Rinpoche

For those who do virtuous actions,
goodness is what comes to pass.
For those who do non-virtuous actions,
that becomes suffering indeed.

- Arya Sanghata Sutra
jmlee369
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Re: HYT Wangs

Post by jmlee369 »

Terma wrote: Tue Jun 14, 2022 6:25 am Yes, from the English translation aside from the advice you me mentioned above, all I heard was that the initiate is to "make the four offerings six times daily." So, six session guru yoga. This was confirmed by a lama friend. Pretty light.
That particular line is part of the recitation for transmitting the tantric vows and one of the reasons six sessions is required. Hence the interpreters' assumptions that six session guru yoga is mandatory.
Könchok Thrinley wrote: Tue Jun 14, 2022 7:04 am
Oh really? I was wondering if HH would say anything about that but since nothing was mentioned at the end I assumed that nothing. :D So six session GY you say? Is there an essential text available? What about lung?
I will PM you about the text. No lung is necessary, every time it was a commitment I was just given the text. However, commentary is available and very helpful if you can receive it.
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