HYT Wangs

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tobes
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Re: HYT Wangs

Post by tobes »

Let's move on.

A good post on the 3rd lineage of this practice:

https://dakinitranslations.com/2022/06/ ... ana-texts/
Dharmadale
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Re: HYT Wangs

Post by Dharmadale »

I just want to chime in once more. Some have suggested that His Holiness said nothing about a GY commitment but a
someone else has reported that he said to do the 'four types of giving six times a day'. I would suggest that this is most likely a reference to the six-session Guru yoga. I would be wary of thinking that because you didn't hear the English language translator say the actual words 'six-session Guru yoga' that His Holiness must not have given that commitment.
jmlee369
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Re: HYT Wangs

Post by jmlee369 »

Dharmadale wrote: Sun Jun 19, 2022 2:30 am I just want to chime in once more. Some have suggested that His Holiness said nothing about a GY commitment but a
someone else has reported that he said to do the 'four types of giving six times a day'. I would suggest that this is most likely a reference to the six-session Guru yoga. I would be wary of thinking that because you didn't hear the English language translator say the actual words 'six-session Guru yoga' that His Holiness must not have given that commitment.
Hi Dharmadale,

This was covered earlier in the thread but it is 100% certain that His Holiness did not mention six session guru yoga as a commitment. The four types of giving six times a day is part of the recitation for transmitting the tantric vows and one of the reasons for doing six session guru yoga, but His Holiness never explicitly stated that six session guru yoga must be done.
Terma
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Re: HYT Wangs

Post by Terma »

tobes wrote: Sun Jun 19, 2022 1:05 am Let's move on.

A good post on the 3rd lineage of this practice:

https://dakinitranslations.com/2022/06/ ... ana-texts/
Wonderful, thanks for sharing! 🙏

Edit: Also, for those who did receive the initiation, there is a surprisingly decent amount of translated material for this particular practice- short and medium daily Sadhana, 2 tsok practice texts, praises, retreat manual, and a few separate commentaries on the Medium length Sadhana by the 7th Dalai Lama.

It is always good to receive an initiation with plenty of translated material on the subject. It is out there, just have to find it. 😉
Last edited by Terma on Sun Jun 19, 2022 3:50 am, edited 2 times in total.
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conebeckham
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Re: HYT Wangs

Post by conebeckham »

I am not certain, but I believe you will find some material regarding this lineage of Gyalwa Gyatso in the DamNgak Dzo, and specifically in English in the volume “Mahasiddha Practice.”
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
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tony_montana
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Re: HYT Wangs

Post by tony_montana »

Just asking to be clear, the Kamtsang does not practice Mitra-Yogin's Lokesvara Jinasagara right? I thought that both the five and nine deity mandalas practiced in Karma Kagyu are from Rechungps (so from Siddha-rajni I'd guess)? And so basically not the Mitra-Gyatsa mandala that His Holiness granted empowerment for. Again, I'm not 100% sure but I'd guess that Mitra-Gyatsa and the Vajravali are basically followed in the Sakya and the Gelug, would that be correct?
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Ayu
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Re: HYT Wangs

Post by Ayu »

tony_montana wrote: Sun Jun 19, 2022 10:22 am Just asking to be clear, the Kamtsang does not practice Mitra-Yogin's Lokesvara Jinasagara right? I thought that both the five and nine deity mandalas practiced in Karma Kagyu are from Rechungps (so from Siddha-rajni I'd guess)? And so basically not the Mitra-Gyatsa mandala that His Holiness granted empowerment for. Again, I'm not 100% sure but I'd guess that Mitra-Gyatsa and the Vajravali are basically followed in the Sakya and the Gelug, would that be correct?
I'm not very knowledgeable. I just can say as a Gelug student, I never heard any of those words that you used above. I don't even have the faintest idea what you are talking about.
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tony_montana
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Re: HYT Wangs

Post by tony_montana »

Ayu wrote: Sun Jun 19, 2022 1:42 pm
tony_montana wrote: Sun Jun 19, 2022 10:22 am Just asking to be clear, the Kamtsang does not practice Mitra-Yogin's Lokesvara Jinasagara right? I thought that both the five and nine deity mandalas practiced in Karma Kagyu are from Rechungps (so from Siddha-rajni I'd guess)? And so basically not the Mitra-Gyatsa mandala that His Holiness granted empowerment for. Again, I'm not 100% sure but I'd guess that Mitra-Gyatsa and the Vajravali are basically followed in the Sakya and the Gelug, would that be correct?
I'm not very knowledgeable. I just can say as a Gelug student, I never heard any of those words that you used above. I don't even have the faintest idea what you are talking about.
I guess I have a knack for general confusion and mayhem :lol:
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conebeckham
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Re: HYT Wangs

Post by conebeckham »

tony_montana wrote: Sun Jun 19, 2022 10:22 am Just asking to be clear, the Kamtsang does not practice Mitra-Yogin's Lokesvara Jinasagara right? I thought that both the five and nine deity mandalas practiced in Karma Kagyu are from Rechungps (so from Siddha-rajni I'd guess)? And so basically not the Mitra-Gyatsa mandala that His Holiness granted empowerment for. Again, I'm not 100% sure but I'd guess that Mitra-Gyatsa and the Vajravali are basically followed in the Sakya and the Gelug, would that be correct?
Pretty much correct. Some Kagyupas May practice these, but I’d venture it is rare. Situ Rinpoche requested this empowerment—but I know he is expert in the usual Kamtsang Gyalwa Gyamtso practices coming down from Rechungpa etc.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
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tony_montana
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Re: HYT Wangs

Post by tony_montana »

conebeckham wrote: Sun Jun 19, 2022 3:52 pm
tony_montana wrote: Sun Jun 19, 2022 10:22 am Just asking to be clear, the Kamtsang does not practice Mitra-Yogin's Lokesvara Jinasagara right? I thought that both the five and nine deity mandalas practiced in Karma Kagyu are from Rechungps (so from Siddha-rajni I'd guess)? And so basically not the Mitra-Gyatsa mandala that His Holiness granted empowerment for. Again, I'm not 100% sure but I'd guess that Mitra-Gyatsa and the Vajravali are basically followed in the Sakya and the Gelug, would that be correct?
Pretty much correct. Some Kagyupas May practice these, but I’d venture it is rare. Situ Rinpoche requested this empowerment—but I know he is expert in the usual Kamtsang Gyalwa Gyamtso practices coming down from Rechungpa etc.
Thanks Cone, I just have a gut-feeling that Tai Situ Rinpoche is collecting all Gyalwa Gyatso lineages. May be a day will come when he will transmit all of them to those who are interested in this practice. I pray that day comes soon. :anjali:
Terma
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Re: HYT Wangs

Post by Terma »

Terma wrote: Tue Jun 14, 2022 10:59 pm
Lobsang Chojor wrote: Tue Jun 14, 2022 10:11 pm
Also, Gyalwa Gyatso is a mother tantra practice so comes with those specific commitments but they weren't spelt out in the empowerment.
I have not seen a difinitive answer on whether it is mother or father tantra. I think I read when HH previously gave this empowerment he had said it came from the father tantra class, and I think I have seen where it is more common with Guhyasamaja.

But then again, I've seen commentaries suggesting it was mother tantra.

https://www.lamayeshe.com/article/comme ... lwa-gyatso

"Just a moment ago I said, I think this belongs to the Guhyasamaja group, that means it is possible to practice the Gyalwa Gyatso deity according to Kalachakra or dzog chen, due to the mental disposition of the practitioner. This generally belongs to the Guhyasamaja group. Within that we have Mother Tantra and Father Tantra. Since there is a Father Tantra and a Mother Tantra there must be a Son Tantra, without son we cannot speak of father and mother, can we?

Now you see, Guhyasamaja belongs to Father Tantra, Heruka to Mother Tantra..."

So I'm not really sure.
As an update, I have now seen in two separate commentaries by recent Masters that this is indeed from Mother Tantra. There are elements of the sadhana that makes this a little more clear.
Kai lord
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Re: HYT Wangs

Post by Kai lord »

Terma wrote: Sat Jun 18, 2022 11:25 pm
conebeckham wrote: Sat Jun 18, 2022 11:18 pm
heart wrote: Sat Jun 18, 2022 7:36 pm

:good: I agree.

/magnus
Well, at least we Kagyupas only have to do Four sessions, and not six!

:D

I jest, I jest.
Yeah, you Kagyupa's get off easy! 😁
Well practising Dharma is not about number game after all.....hmmm or is it?

*Ferociously count number of mantras recited during retreat.* :rolling:
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Life is like a show, either you laugh or cry!
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Nyedrag Yeshe
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Re: HYT Wangs

Post by Nyedrag Yeshe »

We have already the links for it! Within 14 days! Sure will be streamed live!
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Terma
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Re: HYT Wangs

Post by Terma »

Nyedrag Yeshe wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 2:55 am We have already the links for it! Within 14 days! Sure will be streamed live!
This is wonderful news.

Not to beat a dead horse, but everyone should be aware of the commitments. Aside from a daily practice/sadhana, I'm certain it will come with six session guru yoga.

FYI for anyone considering taking this initiation.

🙏
Kai lord
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Re: HYT Wangs

Post by Kai lord »

Pleasantly surprised that the first HYT empowerment Holiness choose to give online through livestream is Chakrasamvara, I was previously guessing his first online major HYT empowerment will be Kalachakra instead.
Könchok Thrinley wrote: Tue Jun 14, 2022 5:01 pm What should then non-gelugpas do after taking HYT from HH Dalailama?
Do the guru yoga from your own tradition(s), you can even make it six times if you are concerned with the number.

But if its a daily sadhana commitment, then there is no way about it unless you are already doing Luipa tradition of Chakrasamvara
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Life is like a fight, either you live or die!
Life is like a show, either you laugh or cry!
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Terma
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Re: HYT Wangs

Post by Terma »

Kai lord wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 2:39 pm Pleasantly surprised that the first HYT empowerment Holiness choose to give online through livestream is Chakrasamvara, I was previously guessing his first online major HYT empowerment will be Kalachakra instead.
Not the first, but yes a very pleasant surprise. The previous empowerment of Jinisagara (Gyalwa Gyatso) that was given 2 weeks ago was HYT.

Also, HH streamed the Manjushri Cycle of empowerment's last year as well.
jmlee369
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Re: HYT Wangs

Post by jmlee369 »

For the upcoming Luipa Chakrasamvara initiation, His Holiness' website has explicitly stated that either the sadhana or at least the Three Purifications practice is a daily commitment and uploaded the file for it, but they have also put up a six session guru yoga file. Perhaps they are anticipating that His Holiness will make it a commitment as well.
Terma
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Re: HYT Wangs

Post by Terma »

jmlee369 wrote: Sat Jul 02, 2022 8:36 am For the upcoming Luipa Chakrasamvara initiation, His Holiness' website has explicitly stated that either the sadhana or at least the Three Purifications practice is a daily commitment and uploaded the file for it, but they have also put up a six session guru yoga file. Perhaps they are anticipating that His Holiness will make it a commitment as well.
From His Holiness'website:

"Please note that people attending the initiation are required to do the daily practice of the Six-Session Guru Yoga which is compulsory for Highest Yoga Tantra empowerments. "

https://www.dalailama.com/schedule

It's very good to see some clarity as to the expectations with this particular empowerment that is being conferred.
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Konchog1
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Re: HYT Wangs

Post by Konchog1 »

Warning! The Empowerment starts on July 8th IN INDIA. For some timezones, this is July 7th. I just realized this today.
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Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
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Re: HYT Wangs

Post by wiseowl »

jmlee369 wrote: Sat Jul 02, 2022 8:36 am For the upcoming Luipa Chakrasamvara initiation, His Holiness' website has explicitly stated that either the sadhana or at least the Three Purifications practice is a daily commitment and uploaded the file for it, but they have also put up a six session guru yoga file. Perhaps they are anticipating that His Holiness will make it a commitment as well.
Can you please share a link to the uploaded file on HHDL's website ?
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