Did Nichiren introduced yogachara concept in his teaching or were they already part of tendai?

Vert
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed May 25, 2022 4:57 am

Did Nichiren introduced yogachara concept in his teaching or were they already part of tendai?

Post by Vert »

Nichiren Shonin stated in his doctrine that everything is sowed into the eighth consciousness, Arayashiki. (Showa Teihon, page 80) i also have noticed that in certain other passages Nicherin refers to the idea of the Eight Consciousnesses, the seven mānas-vijñāna/manovijñāna and the Ālayavijñāna/Arayashiki, was that part of Tendai philosophy already or was it an philosophical addition made by Nicherin?
illarraza
Posts: 1257
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:30 am

Re: Did Nichiren introduced yogachara concept in his teaching or were they already part of tendai?

Post by illarraza »

Hi. The Consciousness Only School initially taught the Alaya consciousness around the 4th or 5th century, and Nichiren mentions this school, so he was aware of their doctrines. More profound is the Amala consciousness. "The Summary of the Mahayana (Chin She-lun;  Shōron) school founded by Paramārtha (499–569), the Flower Garland (Hua-yen; Kegon) school founded by Tu-shun (557–640), and the T’ien-t’ai ( Tendai) school added a ninth consciousness, which is defined as the basis of all of life’s functions"* and "consciousness free of defilements"*. I believe Nichiren explicated this consciousness as Namu Myoho renge kyo consciousness but not exactly in these words:

"You should by all means perform as much good as you possibly can for the sake of your deceased husband. The words of a wise man of old also teach that “you should base your mind on the ninth consciousness, and carry out your practice in the six consciousnesses.”12 How reasonable it is too! In this letter I have written my long-cherished teachings. Keep them deep within your heart." - Hell is the Land of Tranquil Light

And

"Never seek this Gohonzon outside yourself. The Gohonzon exists only within the mortal flesh of us ordinary people who embrace the Lotus Sutra and chant Namu-myoho-renge-kyo. The body is the palace of the ninth consciousness, the unchanging reality that reigns over all of life’s functions. To be endowed with the Ten Worlds means that all ten, without a single exception, exist in one world. Because of this it is called a mandala. Mandala is a Sanskrit word that is translated as “perfectly endowed” or “a cluster of blessings.” This Gohonzon also is found only in the two characters for faith. This is what the sutra means when it states that one can “gain entrance through faith alone.” - The Real Aspect of the Gohonzon

Nichiren also mentions the Ninth Consciousness in On the Eighteen Perfections. There seemed to be a battle between the True Word (Shingon) schools to create doctrines of the Tenth (Tientai) and Eleventh (True Word) but I think this was one upmanship and the Ninth is the deepest level of consciousness.

In summary, basing one's mind on the Ninth Consciousness is chanting Namu Myoho renge kyo before the Gohonzon.

*The quotation marks in the first paragraph is from the explanations in the SGI Dictionary of Buddhism.

Mark
Last edited by illarraza on Wed May 25, 2022 6:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Vert
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed May 25, 2022 4:57 am

Re: Did Nichiren introduced yogachara concept in his teaching or were they already part of tendai?

Post by Vert »

illarraza wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 6:00 pm
Nichiren also mentions the Ninth Consciousness in On the Eighteen Perfections. There seemed to be a battle between the True Word (Shingon) schools to create doctrines of the Tenth (Tientai) and Eleventh (True Word) but I think this was one upmanship and the Ninth is the deepest level of consciousness.

In summary, basing one's mind on the Ninth Consciousness is chanting Namu Myoho renge kyo before the Gohonzon.

*The quotation marks in the first paragraph is from the explanations in the SGI Dictionary of Buddhism.

Mark
Hi Mark, i couldn't quite understand what you mean in the last part. Are you saying that the Tiendai school already believed in the Yogachara system of eight consciences and was in disputation with Nicherin and Shingon over possible Ninth and Tenth conscience respectively or that Nicherin preferred the scheme of nine consciences, closer to Yogachara, while Tiandai favored a tenth conscience and Shingon an eleventh conscience?
Last edited by Vert on Wed May 25, 2022 9:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
illarraza
Posts: 1257
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:30 am

Re: Did Nichiren introduced yogachara concept in his teaching or were they already part of tendai?

Post by illarraza »

Vert wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 9:41 pm
illarraza wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 6:00 pm
Nichiren also mentions the Ninth Consciousness in On the Eighteen Perfections. There seemed to be a battle between the True Word (Shingon) schools to create doctrines of the Tenth (Tientai) and Eleventh (True Word) but I think this was one upmanship and the Ninth is the deepest level of consciousness.

In summary, basing one's mind on the Ninth Consciousness is chanting Namu Myoho renge kyo before the Gohonzon.

*The quotation marks in the first paragraph is from the explanations in the SGI Dictionary of Buddhism.

Mark
Hi Mark, i couldn't quite understand what you mean in the last part. Are you saying that the Tiendai school already believed in the Yogachara system of eight consciences and was in disputation with Nicherin and Shingon over possible Ninth and Tenth conscience respectively or that Nicherin preferred the scheme of nine consciences, closer to Yogachara, while Tiandai favored a tenth conscience and Shingon an eleventh conscience?
If the Tientai school taught a Ninth consciousness shortly? after The Summary of the Mahayana school founded by Paramārtha (499–569) and the Flower Garland (Hua-yen; Kegon) school founded by Tu-shun (557–640), somewhere around the 6th century or somewhat after, they must have been aware of Yogacara's Eighth consciousness. Absolute proof would be if the Tientai school mentioned the Saṃdhinirmocana Sūtra (The Revelation of the Profound Secrets Sutra), the basis of Yogacara. Most importantly for your initial question Nichiren mentions this sutra in On the Five Guides for Propagation. He often refuted the Kegon doctrine of "the mind as skilled painter". I don't know when Tientai or Tendai talked about the Tenth Consciousness or the True Word School talked about the Eleventh Consciousness but I would surmise that they talked about these consciousnesses after Zhiyi. I only know that Nichiren never went beyond the Amala, the Ninth Consciousness. nichiren very, very, infrequently disputed anything by Tientai, save for the relative importance of Great Concentration and Insight and the Lotus Sutra itself which he taught was superior to Great Concentration and Insight.

Mark
Vert
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed May 25, 2022 4:57 am

Re: Did Nichiren introduced yogachara concept in his teaching or were they already part of tendai?

Post by Vert »

illarraza wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 6:57 am
If the Tientai school taught a Ninth consciousness shortly? after The Summary of the Mahayana school founded by Paramārtha (499–569) and the Flower Garland (Hua-yen; Kegon) school founded by Tu-shun (557–640), somewhere around the 6th century or somewhat after, they must have been aware of Yogacara's Eighth consciousness. Absolute proof would be if the Tientai school mentioned the Saṃdhinirmocana Sūtra (The Revelation of the Profound Secrets Sutra), the basis of Yogacara. Most importantly for your initial question Nichiren mentions this sutra in On the Five Guides for Propagation. He often refuted the Kegon doctrine of "the mind as skilled painter". I don't know when Tientai or Tendai talked about the Tenth Consciousness or the True Word School talked about the Eleventh Consciousness but I would surmise that they talked about these consciousnesses after Zhiyi. I only know that Nichiren never went beyond the Amala, the Ninth Consciousness. nichiren very, very, infrequently disputed anything by Tientai, save for the relative importance of Great Concentration and Insight and the Lotus Sutra itself which he taught was superior to Great Concentration and Insight.

Mark
I believe i understood it now, like the Tendai position, Nicherin accepted the Yogachara idea of Nine consciences as presented by Paramārtha but rejected the idea of conscience making/creating reality. Nicherin simply had a stronger philosophical focus on the doctrine of the Nine consciences and it's ramifications then Tendai had. Thanks for the assistance.
Last edited by Vert on Thu May 26, 2022 8:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.
illarraza
Posts: 1257
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:30 am

Re: Did Nichiren introduced yogachara concept in his teaching or were they already part of tendai?

Post by illarraza »

Vert wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 8:18 pm
illarraza wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 6:57 am
If the Tientai school taught a Ninth consciousness shortly? after The Summary of the Mahayana school founded by Paramārtha (499–569) and the Flower Garland (Hua-yen; Kegon) school founded by Tu-shun (557–640), somewhere around the 6th century or somewhat after, they must have been aware of Yogacara's Eighth consciousness. Absolute proof would be if the Tientai school mentioned the Saṃdhinirmocana Sūtra (The Revelation of the Profound Secrets Sutra), the basis of Yogacara. Most importantly for your initial question Nichiren mentions this sutra in On the Five Guides for Propagation. He often refuted the Kegon doctrine of "the mind as skilled painter". I don't know when Tientai or Tendai talked about the Tenth Consciousness or the True Word School talked about the Eleventh Consciousness but I would surmise that they talked about these consciousnesses after Zhiyi. I only know that Nichiren never went beyond the Amala, the Ninth Consciousness. nichiren very, very, infrequently disputed anything by Tientai, save for the relative importance of Great Concentration and Insight and the Lotus Sutra itself which he taught was superior to Great Concentration and Insight.

Mark
I believe i understood it now, like the Tendai position, Nicherin accepted the Yogachara idea of Nine consciences as presented by Paramārtha but rejected the idea of conscience making/creating reality. Nicherin simply had a stronger philosophical focus on the doctrine of the Nine consciences and it's ramifications then Tendai had. Thanks for the assistance.
I think so but I'm not an expert on Tientai. Perhaps Queequeg could offer more insight.
User avatar
Queequeg
Former staff member
Posts: 14456
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:24 pm

Re: Did Nichiren introduced yogachara concept in his teaching or were they already part of tendai?

Post by Queequeg »

AFAIK, Zhiyi did not integrate Yogacara teachings on 8 consciousnesses into his teaching. I'm speculating, but I don't think Zhiyi would have necessarily taken a position against 8 consciousnesses per se, though I have read a quote where Zhiyi criticized Vasubhandu's Consciousness Only as being biased in proposing that dharmas are mere aspects of mind where Zhiyi distinguished his teaching by asserting that the relationship is mutual meaning dharmas are functions of consciousness, but also, consciousness can also be said to be functions of dharmas. Might seem like a small distinction but I think it when its unpacked, it presents a profoundly different perspective.

I believe 8/9 consciousness schemes were integrated into Tiantai later, and certainly in Tendai which is not limited to the exoteric Tiantai teachings but also includes esoteric Mikkyo teachings and practices. I suspect the Yogacara influence in Tendai comes in mainly through the Mikkyo teachings. Nichiren would of course have been steeped in the exoteric and esoteric Tendai. Though he formally criticized Mikkyo, the reality is his teachings are deeply influenced by Mikkyo.

The above is my intuition connecting dots between what I do know. I don't actually know the details of how Yogacara came to be integrated in Tendai.
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
illarraza
Posts: 1257
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:30 am

Re: Did Nichiren introduced yogachara concept in his teaching or were they already part of tendai?

Post by illarraza »

Queequeg wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 4:24 pm AFAIK, Zhiyi did not integrate Yogacara teachings on 8 consciousnesses into his teaching. I'm speculating, but I don't think Zhiyi would have necessarily taken a position against 8 consciousnesses per se, though I have read a quote where Zhiyi criticized Vasubhandu's Consciousness Only as being biased in proposing that dharmas are mere aspects of mind where Zhiyi distinguished his teaching by asserting that the relationship is mutual meaning dharmas are functions of consciousness, but also, consciousness can also be said to be functions of dharmas. Might seem like a small distinction but I think it when its unpacked, it presents a profoundly different perspective.

I believe 8/9 consciousness schemes were integrated into Tiantai later, and certainly in Tendai which is not limited to the exoteric Tiantai teachings but also includes esoteric Mikkyo teachings and practices. I suspect the Yogacara influence in Tendai comes in mainly through the Mikkyo teachings. Nichiren would of course have been steeped in the exoteric and esoteric Tendai. Though he formally criticized Mikkyo, the reality is his teachings are deeply influenced by Mikkyo.

The above is my intuition connecting dots between what I do know. I don't actually know the details of how Yogacara came to be integrated in Tendai.
I think that "thusness" obviates consciousness only along with the Three Realms of Ichinen Sanzen. The consciousness of all individuals and of society as a whole adds a complexity to reality that can only be understood by a Buddha.

M
ronnymarsh
Posts: 170
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2019 2:52 am

Re: Did Nichiren introduced yogachara concept in his teaching or were they already part of tendai?

Post by ronnymarsh »

There is clear and strong evidence of the influence of Yogacara thought on the formulation of the Tientai/Tendai doctrine and, by extension, on Nichiren thought. Although Western Buddhism's tendency to "Protestant" thinking (a kind of "sola scriptura" that clings to the letter rather than the content) prefers not to see.

Tientai is a representative of a Madhyamaka type of thought that expanded in China, represented, for example, by the writings and translations of Kumarajiva. Although the Yogacara texts did not serve as a direct and primary source for the development of Chi'i thought, it is possible to notice a clear influence by the fact that:
1. Yogacara's own terms and content are mentioned in the Tendai/Nichiren sources, as is the case with the eight and nine consciousnesses.
2. Many of Tendai/Nichiren's own doctrines demonstrate a clear blending of Madhyamaka concepts involving Yogacara concepts.

As an example of this second point, we can speak of "Sandai" (three truths).
In the original Madhyamaka doctrine, in Nagarjuna, we find the doctrine of the "Two Truths": "Samvrti" (conventional) [which stands for "existence"] and "Paramartha" (absolute) [which is said of emptiness]. That is, in Nagarjuna/Madhyamaka's thought reality in terms of the absolute is Shunyata.

However, in Tendai/Nichiren thought reality is spoken of in terms of Three Truths: Existence, Emptiness and Middle Way. Here, it is the midpoint between existence and emptiness that occupies the position of Absolute Reality, Shunyata is just a provisional truth just like existence, which disagrees with the orthodox position of Nagarjuna/Madhyamaka.

This notion of Sandai finds a parallel in the Trisvabhava (Three Natures) doctrine of Yogacara thought. These Three Natures are called Parikalpita (Imaginary Nature), Paratantra (Dependent Nature) and Parinishpanna (Consumed Nature). The first concerns the apparent, imaginary existence of things, as if they all existed independently. The second concerns existence only in terms of dependence, emptiness. The third concerns the non-duality between the two previous natures.

Although Zhiyi did not directly use the source in which the Three Natures originally appear (sandinirmocanasutra), he (and the other tiantai patriarchs) rely heavily on Paramartha [which is made explicit by the fact that the term “amalavijnana” exists in this system], who was a proponent of this kind of madhyamaka-yogacara synthesis that defined Sino-Japanese Buddhism. That is, even though the primary texts of Yogacara were not used directly for the development of Tiantai thought, they served as an indirect influence through the influence of authors who took them into consideration (as is the case of Paramartha).
illarraza
Posts: 1257
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:30 am

Re: Did Nichiren introduced yogachara concept in his teaching or were they already part of tendai?

Post by illarraza »

ronnymarsh wrote: Mon May 30, 2022 4:46 pm There is clear and strong evidence of the influence of Yogacara thought on the formulation of the Tientai/Tendai doctrine and, by extension, on Nichiren thought. Although Western Buddhism's tendency to "Protestant" thinking (a kind of "sola scriptura" that clings to the letter rather than the content) prefers not to see.

Tientai is a representative of a Madhyamaka type of thought that expanded in China, represented, for example, by the writings and translations of Kumarajiva. Although the Yogacara texts did not serve as a direct and primary source for the development of Chi'i thought, it is possible to notice a clear influence by the fact that:
1. Yogacara's own terms and content are mentioned in the Tendai/Nichiren sources, as is the case with the eight and nine consciousnesses.
2. Many of Tendai/Nichiren's own doctrines demonstrate a clear blending of Madhyamaka concepts involving Yogacara concepts.

As an example of this second point, we can speak of "Sandai" (three truths).
In the original Madhyamaka doctrine, in Nagarjuna, we find the doctrine of the "Two Truths": "Samvrti" (conventional) [which stands for "existence"] and "Paramartha" (absolute) [which is said of emptiness]. That is, in Nagarjuna/Madhyamaka's thought reality in terms of the absolute is Shunyata.

However, in Tendai/Nichiren thought reality is spoken of in terms of Three Truths: Existence, Emptiness and Middle Way. Here, it is the midpoint between existence and emptiness that occupies the position of Absolute Reality, Shunyata is just a provisional truth just like existence, which disagrees with the orthodox position of Nagarjuna/Madhyamaka.

This notion of Sandai finds a parallel in the Trisvabhava (Three Natures) doctrine of Yogacara thought. These Three Natures are called Parikalpita (Imaginary Nature), Paratantra (Dependent Nature) and Parinishpanna (Consumed Nature). The first concerns the apparent, imaginary existence of things, as if they all existed independently. The second concerns existence only in terms of dependence, emptiness. The third concerns the non-duality between the two previous natures.

Although Zhiyi did not directly use the source in which the Three Natures originally appear (sandinirmocanasutra), he (and the other tiantai patriarchs) rely heavily on Paramartha [which is made explicit by the fact that the term “amalavijnana” exists in this system], who was a proponent of this kind of madhyamaka-yogacara synthesis that defined Sino-Japanese Buddhism. That is, even though the primary texts of Yogacara were not used directly for the development of Tiantai thought, they served as an indirect influence through the influence of authors who took them into consideration (as is the case of Paramartha).
In Nichiren's early writings he had a more Yogacharin viewpoint:

"It [the Vimalakirti Sutra] also states that, if the minds of living beings are impure, their land is also impure, but if their minds are pure, so is their land. There are not two lands, pure or impure in themselves. The difference lies solely in the good or evil of our minds."

Please contrast this with passages from some later writings of Nichiren in which he rejects the Yogacara [Consciousness Only] view which is based on the Flower Garland, Mahavairochana and other provisional sutras:

"The path to Buddhahood is not to be found in the Flower Garland doctrine of the phenomenal world as created by the mind alone, in the eight negations of the Three Treatises school, in the Consciousness-Only doctrine of the Dharma Characteristics school, or in the True Word type of meditation on the five elements of the universe. Only the T’ien-t’ai doctrine of three thousand realms in a single moment of life is the path to Buddhahood."

and

"The essence of the sutras preached before the Lotus Sutra is that all phenomena arise from the mind. To illustrate, they say that the mind is like the great earth, while the grasses and trees are like all phenomena. But it is not so with the Lotus Sutra. It teaches that the mind itself is the great earth, and that the great earth itself is the grasses and trees. The meaning of the earlier sutras is that clarity of mind is like the moon, and that purity of mind is like a flower. But it is not so with the Lotus Sutra. It is the teaching that the moon itself is mind, and the flower itself is mind. You should realize from this that polished rice is not polished rice; it is life itself."

It is not completely untrue that we and we alone are the source of our problems, at least, in our immediate environments. For example, I read today, :

"Put a messy person in a neat organized environment and it will be messy in no time.

Put an organized and neat individual in a messy environment and it will be clean and organized likity split."

Yes, it was our karma to be born in this Saha realm and to encounter Namu myoho renge kyo.

However their are also evil societies and retched environments that only massive shakubuku will change. The time is not quite right for billions to chant Namu Myoho renge kyo but i suspect, the time is rapidly approaching. Faster than I even imagined five years ago.

That everything derives from the mind is untrue. For example there are six causes of Illness taught in Buddhism and Karma is but one of the causes. Yogacara basically derives from the Flower Garland Sutra, the third most profound Sutra. It teaches, “The mind is like a skilled painter.” Life is more complicated than even our causes (save for chanting Namu Myoho renge kyo, or even our karma.

As we read in Gongyo, "only a Buddha with a Buddha can exhaustively penetrate the Reality of the Dharmas". The Three Realms of Three Thousand Realms in a Moment of Thought proves that what the Buddha said is true:

The Realm of the Individual, the Five Aggregates: Form or Matter, Consciousness; Feeling or Conception; Perception and memory; Mental formations or Volition. It includes, for example one's power and influence.

The Realm of Society, all the billions of people's Five Aggregates and their power and influence.

The Realm of the Environment's Five Aggregates, for example, the Gohonzon's Five Aggregates, its power and influence. This is the most difficult Realm to understand.

There is a panoply of the Three Realms. In short, there are both causes and conditions, our own and not our own.

With Yogacara teachings and practice, there is insufficient gratitude, insufficient empathy or the ability to place oneself in another person's shoes, and even a lack acknowledgement of others since everything derives from one's own mind. It is a selfish way to view the world.

Mark
User avatar
Aemilius
Posts: 4604
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2010 11:44 am

Re: Did Nichiren introduced yogachara concept in his teaching or were they already part of tendai?

Post by Aemilius »

In 1970's Nichiren school sent their english literature to the European libraries, sometimes they were catalogued and made available for public. I read a couple of those books. At that time Nichiren school used the Nine consciousnesses version of yogachara, it was said to be the epitome of Yogachara and really important.
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)
User avatar
Queequeg
Former staff member
Posts: 14456
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:24 pm

Re: Did Nichiren introduced yogachara concept in his teaching or were they already part of tendai?

Post by Queequeg »

ronnymarsh wrote: Mon May 30, 2022 4:46 pm There is clear and strong evidence of the influence of Yogacara thought on the formulation of the Tientai/Tendai doctrine and, by extension, on Nichiren thought. Although Western Buddhism's tendency to "Protestant" thinking (a kind of "sola scriptura" that clings to the letter rather than the content) prefers not to see.
A distinction needs to be made between Tiantai and Tendai. Although Tendai draws a lineage to Zhiyi, this is only for part of the teachings. Tendai as a preliminary matter needs to be understood as encompassing two distinct traditions - Exoteric (Kenkyo) and Esoteric (Mikkyo). Zhiyi's tradition is the Exoteric teachings. The Esoteric Mikkyo teachings come from Subhakarasimha and Amoghavajra. These two distinct lineages represent different approaches to bodhi and we could say that Tendai has been a project of syncretizing these two traditions. That said, to discuss the influence of Yogacara on Nichiren we have to keep this background in mind.
Tientai is a representative of a Madhyamaka type of thought that expanded in China, represented, for example, by the writings and translations of Kumarajiva. Although the Yogacara texts did not serve as a direct and primary source for the development of Chi'i thought, it is possible to notice a clear influence by the fact that:
1. Yogacara's own terms and content are mentioned in the Tendai/Nichiren sources, as is the case with the eight and nine consciousnesses.
2. Many of Tendai/Nichiren's own doctrines demonstrate a clear blending of Madhyamaka concepts involving Yogacara concepts.
See comment above. Zhiyi was not himself influenced to a great degree by Yogacara except that he distinguished his teaching in contrast to it. Later Tiantai teachers were forced to address Yogacara and its influence arguably came in through that process. If we're talking about Nichiren, then I think we have to look at the influence of Yogacara in Tendai which was informed by the debates with the Hosso (Japanese Yogacara) school and through Mikkyo learning. I'm not disagreeing with anything here, but the way you present the ideas, the distinction between Tiantai and Tendai is not clear.
As an example of this second point, we can speak of "Sandai" (three truths).
In the original Madhyamaka doctrine, in Nagarjuna, we find the doctrine of the "Two Truths": "Samvrti" (conventional) [which stands for "existence"] and "Paramartha" (absolute) [which is said of emptiness]. That is, in Nagarjuna/Madhyamaka's thought reality in terms of the absolute is Shunyata.

However, in Tendai/Nichiren thought reality is spoken of in terms of Three Truths: Existence, Emptiness and Middle Way. Here, it is the midpoint between existence and emptiness that occupies the position of Absolute Reality, Shunyata is just a provisional truth just like existence, which disagrees with the orthodox position of Nagarjuna/Madhyamaka.

This notion of Sandai finds a parallel in the Trisvabhava (Three Natures) doctrine of Yogacara thought. These Three Natures are called Parikalpita (Imaginary Nature), Paratantra (Dependent Nature) and Parinishpanna (Consumed Nature). The first concerns the apparent, imaginary existence of things, as if they all existed independently. The second concerns existence only in terms of dependence, emptiness. The third concerns the non-duality between the two previous natures.

Although Zhiyi did not directly use the source in which the Three Natures originally appear (sandinirmocanasutra), he (and the other tiantai patriarchs) rely heavily on Paramartha [which is made explicit by the fact that the term “amalavijnana” exists in this system], who was a proponent of this kind of madhyamaka-yogacara synthesis that defined Sino-Japanese Buddhism. That is, even though the primary texts of Yogacara were not used directly for the development of Tiantai thought, they served as an indirect influence through the influence of authors who took them into consideration (as is the case of Paramartha).
Rev. Jikai published some study notes on the Makashikan a few years ago and directly addressed the apparent resonance of Yogacara Three Truths and Tiantai Three Truths and pointed out that they are not related. Zhiyi's Three Truths evolved out of his interpretation of Madhyamaka and seem to have been influenced by purportedly apocryphal Chinese sutras that mention Three Truths. IMO, Zhiyi's Three Truths are not a departure from Nagarjuna's teachings and rather clarify what Zhiyi explains is the correct understanding of the relative/absolute/middle found in Madhyamaka.

Paramartha and Zhiyi were both alive at the same time, but I am not aware of Zhiyi being influenced by Paramartha except that, as mentioned above, he explained his teachings in contrast to Yogacara ideas about the alaya-vijnana. As far as I'm aware, amala-vijnana does not figure in Zhiyi's writings. I don't know when teachings on amala-vijnana were introduced into Tiantai/Tendai thought.
illarraza wrote: Tue May 31, 2022 7:19 am In Nichiren's early writings he had a more Yogacharin viewpoint:

"It [the Vimalakirti Sutra] also states that, if the minds of living beings are impure, their land is also impure, but if their minds are pure, so is their land. There are not two lands, pure or impure in themselves. The difference lies solely in the good or evil of our minds."

Please contrast this with passages from some later writings of Nichiren in which he rejects the Yogacara [Consciousness Only] view which is based on the Flower Garland, Mahavairochana and other provisional sutras:

"The path to Buddhahood is not to be found in the Flower Garland doctrine of the phenomenal world as created by the mind alone, in the eight negations of the Three Treatises school, in the Consciousness-Only doctrine of the Dharma Characteristics school, or in the True Word type of meditation on the five elements of the universe. Only the T’ien-t’ai doctrine of three thousand realms in a single moment of life is the path to Buddhahood."

and

"The essence of the sutras preached before the Lotus Sutra is that all phenomena arise from the mind. To illustrate, they say that the mind is like the great earth, while the grasses and trees are like all phenomena. But it is not so with the Lotus Sutra. It teaches that the mind itself is the great earth, and that the great earth itself is the grasses and trees. The meaning of the earlier sutras is that clarity of mind is like the moon, and that purity of mind is like a flower. But it is not so with the Lotus Sutra. It is the teaching that the moon itself is mind, and the flower itself is mind. You should realize from this that polished rice is not polished rice; it is life itself."
I'm not sure those quotes support what you are saying. The Vimalakirti Sutra figures prominently in Zhiyi's teachings and is not as far as I know associated with Yogacara thought. In contrasting with other schools, I think Nichiren is drawing on the debates between Tendai and Nara Schools but doesn't reflect a different view. As I can see ichinen sanzen is the view of all three quotes.
It is not completely untrue that we and we alone are the source of our problems, at least, in our immediate environments. For example, I read today, :

"Put a messy person in a neat organized environment and it will be messy in no time.

Put an organized and neat individual in a messy environment and it will be clean and organized likity split."

Yes, it was our karma to be born in this Saha realm and to encounter Namu myoho renge kyo.

However their are also evil societies and retched environments that only massive shakubuku will change. The time is not quite right for billions to chant Namu Myoho renge kyo but i suspect, the time is rapidly approaching. Faster than I even imagined five years ago.

That everything derives from the mind is untrue. For example there are six causes of Illness taught in Buddhism and Karma is but one of the causes. Yogacara basically derives from the Flower Garland Sutra, the third most profound Sutra. It teaches, “The mind is like a skilled painter.” Life is more complicated than even our causes (save for chanting Namu Myoho renge kyo, or even our karma.

As we read in Gongyo, "only a Buddha with a Buddha can exhaustively penetrate the Reality of the Dharmas". The Three Realms of Three Thousand Realms in a Moment of Thought proves that what the Buddha said is true:

The Realm of the Individual, the Five Aggregates: Form or Matter, Consciousness; Feeling or Conception; Perception and memory; Mental formations or Volition. It includes, for example one's power and influence.

The Realm of Society, all the billions of people's Five Aggregates and their power and influence.

The Realm of the Environment's Five Aggregates, for example, the Gohonzon's Five Aggregates, its power and influence. This is the most difficult Realm to understand.

There is a panoply of the Three Realms. In short, there are both causes and conditions, our own and not our own.

With Yogacara teachings and practice, there is insufficient gratitude, insufficient empathy or the ability to place oneself in another person's shoes, and even a lack acknowledgement of others since everything derives from one's own mind. It is a selfish way to view the world.

Mark
I don't think its particularly necessary to proclaim victory over Yogacara. There really are no Yogarcara schools presently in existence because the idealism doesn't hold up. That said, its not unedifying to study, IMHO.

Makashikan is the source of the teachings on ichinensanzen. If one wants to understand it, best go to the source to study and practice it (as Nichiren counseled). I don't think Nichiren's writings are sufficient to gain understanding except in superficial ways. Makashikan, though, demands extensive background study and practice, so its more difficult than just picking up that book; it is a meditation manual so needs to be read while practicing it. Nichiren understood how difficult it is to penetrate and so dispensed with that and instead counseled forming a direct connection to the Lotus through Lotus smrti. That's a digression.
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
ronnymarsh
Posts: 170
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2019 2:52 am

Re: Did Nichiren introduced yogachara concept in his teaching or were they already part of tendai?

Post by ronnymarsh »

illarraza wrote: Tue May 31, 2022 7:19 am In Nichiren's early writings he had a more Yogacharin viewpoint:

"It [the Vimalakirti Sutra] also states that, if the minds of living beings are impure, their land is also impure, but if their minds are pure, so is their land. There are not two lands, pure or impure in themselves. The difference lies solely in the good or evil of our minds."

Please contrast this with passages from some later writings of Nichiren in which he rejects the Yogacara [Consciousness Only] view which is based on the Flower Garland, Mahavairochana and other provisional sutras:

"The path to Buddhahood is not to be found in the Flower Garland doctrine of the phenomenal world as created by the mind alone, in the eight negations of the Three Treatises school, in the Consciousness-Only doctrine of the Dharma Characteristics school, or in the True Word type of meditation on the five elements of the universe. Only the T’ien-t’ai doctrine of three thousand realms in a single moment of life is the path to Buddhahood."

and

"The essence of the sutras preached before the Lotus Sutra is that all phenomena arise from the mind. To illustrate, they say that the mind is like the great earth, while the grasses and trees are like all phenomena. But it is not so with the Lotus Sutra. It teaches that the mind itself is the great earth, and that the great earth itself is the grasses and trees. The meaning of the earlier sutras is that clarity of mind is like the moon, and that purity of mind is like a flower. But it is not so with the Lotus Sutra. It is the teaching that the moon itself is mind, and the flower itself is mind. You should realize from this that polished rice is not polished rice; it is life itself."
These writings that you quoted from Nichiren at the beginning of the text are not contradictory, and they represent the same teaching, and in essence represent a yogacara/cittamatra understanding.

You see, what Nichiren is doing is a denial of the "emergence" of dharmas. He states that according to the previous sutras dharmas ARISE from the mind, that is, mind and dharmas are two different things. But for the Lotus Sutra, according to Nichiren's interpretation, there is no distinction between mind and dharmas. The "dharmas" are mind and the mind is "dharmas". There is no distinction.

This statement, when compared with what the sutras literally says, is absolutely not true. There are Sutras from periods before the Lotus Sutra that make analogous statements. An example of this is the Heart Sutra:

"the form is the shunya, the shunya is the form (...)"

Possibly what Nichiren means by earlier Sutras should be specifically about the Agamas, as this statement that dharmas arise from the mind is very similar to what is said, for example, in the Dhammapada:

"dhammas are mind-produced, mind-driven, mind-made"

This idea that dharmas arise from the mind is not a Yogacara/Cittamatra position. The real notion of this school is that everything (the dharmas) is just (matra) mental process (citta). There is no arising or fabrication, there is no causal relationship between mind and dharma, as many misunderstand. In yogacara thought dharmas and mind are two names for the same reality, "dharmas" are mind and mind is "dharmas". And that is Nichiren's understanding and Nichiren's interpretation of the Lotus Sutra.

Now, it is necessary to understand what the implication of this statement is in the original yogacarin context.
The claim that dharma is mind is not a metaphysical claim, which attempts to demonstrate an eternal substance similar to an atman, as many people (especially yogacara critics) do. This statement serves to understand the essential problem of suffering.

Suffering is a reality found in dharmas. As these are just mental processes and not external realities created by something, the solution to this problem lies in the dharmas themselves, in the mind itself. And this is the key thought for the soteriological aspect of Nichiren Buddhism.

So when we understand that Yogacara thinking is that all dharmas ARE mind (mental processes) only, and we read Nichiren, there is no denying that his essential philosophical basis is more Yogacara than Madhyamaka. Nichiren almost never speaks of Shunyata, which is the central thought of Madhyamaka philosophy, and his thought always tends towards an absolute monism around the mind, which is characteristic of Yogacara thought.
User avatar
Queequeg
Former staff member
Posts: 14456
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:24 pm

Re: Did Nichiren introduced yogachara concept in his teaching or were they already part of tendai?

Post by Queequeg »

ronnymarsh wrote: Tue May 31, 2022 3:15 pm
You really need to look at Makashikan. Nichiren follows Zhiyi et al. on this. No need to invoke Yogacara. The relationship between mind and reality is explained through ichinen sanzen. Nichiren would have been very familiar with the Tendai-Hosso debates and wouldn't fall into Yogacara view as haphazardly as you suggest.
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
Vert
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed May 25, 2022 4:57 am

Re: Did Nichiren introduced yogachara concept in his teaching or were they already part of tendai?

Post by Vert »

Aemilius wrote: Tue May 31, 2022 11:22 am In 1970's Nichiren school sent their english literature to the European libraries, sometimes they were catalogued and made available for public. I read a couple of those books. At that time Nichiren school used the Nine consciousnesses version of yogachara, it was said to be the epitome of Yogachara and really important.
Could you tell me which school this books belonged to and their names
Queequeg wrote: Tue May 31, 2022 5:13 pm
ronnymarsh wrote: Tue May 31, 2022 3:15 pm
You really need to look at Makashikan. Nichiren follows Zhiyi et al. on this. No need to invoke Yogacara. The relationship between mind and reality is explained through ichinen sanzen. Nichiren would have been very familiar with the Tendai-Hosso debates and wouldn't fall into Yogacara view as haphazardly as you suggest.
Nicherin didn't need to "fall into Yogachara view" he considered Vāsudeva as one of his predecessors in spreading the Lotus, and he was the founder of Yogachara. His acceptance of the Yogachara theory of conscience means that he considered it valid.
Queequeg wrote: Tue May 31, 2022 1:54 pm
I don't think its particularly necessary to proclaim victory over Yogacara. There really are no Yogarcara schools presently in existence because the idealism doesn't hold up. That said, its not unedifying to study, IMHO.
That is an incredibly weird affirmation because there are. Both the Hossō and Huyan schools as well as Kegon and Jonang to a lesser extent, are Yogachara schools that exist to this day. If you research books about Yogachara, the Hossō head priest has recently written a few that are available in english. And the Chinese Huyan accepts the Yogachara view with a few modifications.
Last edited by Vert on Tue May 31, 2022 10:37 pm, edited 4 times in total.
User avatar
Aemilius
Posts: 4604
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2010 11:44 am

Re: Did Nichiren introduced yogachara concept in his teaching or were they already part of tendai?

Post by Aemilius »

Vert wrote: Tue May 31, 2022 9:48 pm
Aemilius wrote: Tue May 31, 2022 11:22 am In 1970's Nichiren school sent their english literature to the European libraries, sometimes they were catalogued and made available for public. I read a couple of those books. At that time Nichiren school used the Nine consciousnesses version of yogachara, it was said to be the epitome of Yogachara and really important.
Could you tell me which school this books belonged to and their names
I'm sorry, it is such a long time ago, and I dutifully returned the books to the library. I would bet that they were published by SGI (SokaGakkai).
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)
User avatar
Queequeg
Former staff member
Posts: 14456
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:24 pm

Re: Did Nichiren introduced yogachara concept in his teaching or were they already part of tendai?

Post by Queequeg »

Vert wrote: Tue May 31, 2022 9:48 pm
Queequeg wrote: Tue May 31, 2022 5:13 pm You really need to look at Makashikan. Nichiren follows Zhiyi et al. on this. No need to invoke Yogacara. The relationship between mind and reality is explained through ichinen sanzen. Nichiren would have been very familiar with the Tendai-Hosso debates and wouldn't fall into Yogacara view as haphazardly as you suggest.
Nicherin didn't need to "fall into Yogachara view" he considered Vāsudeva as one of his predecessors in spreading the Lotus, and he was the founder of Yogachara. His acceptance of the Yogachara theory of conscience means that he considered it valid.
It's quite ridiculous to assert that Nichiren subscribed to Yogacara. Its one thing to adopt some of the terminology, which he did because it was adopted in Tendai, but he squarely rejected the critical assertions of Yogacara such as 5 Natures which declare that some beings cannot attain Buddhahood. This is wholly incompatible with Lotus Sutra view which asserts that all sentient beings can attain Buddhahood. This disagreement was the crux of the Tendai-Hosso debates. When Nichiren and others like Saicho invoked the amala-vijnana, they were really talking about buddha-nature which is central to Tiantai/Tendai. The Yogacara influence is mainly a sort of abhidharma study. This does not mean its wholly rejected, but its core assertions are hardly accepted in Lotus lineages. If you want to say that Paramartha's anatomy of consciousness was widely accepted in E. Asia, this is not controversial.

Moreover, Nichiren hardly mentioned amala-vijnana in his writings. Its curious to see people making such a big deal about those few passing references. It also should be pointed out that when he did mention ninth consciousness or amala consciousness, he was either giving it as an example of teachings opposed to Lotus teachings or quoting someone else.

Again, the nature of dharmas in Nichiren's teachings is framed through ichinen sanzen, not Yogacara. Ronny is mistaken to read those quotes as discussing Yogacara view. If you are familiar with Zhiyi's writings, it is quite obvious Nichiren is talking about ichinen sanzen.
Queequeg wrote: Tue May 31, 2022 1:54 pm
I don't think its particularly necessary to proclaim victory over Yogacara. There really are no Yogarcara schools presently in existence because the idealism doesn't hold up. That said, its not unedifying to study, IMHO.
That is an incredibly weird affirmation because there are. Both the Hossō and Huyan schools as well as Kegon and Jonang to a lesser extent, are Yogachara schools that exist to this day. If you research books about Yogachara, the Hossō head priest has recently written a few that are available in english. And the Chinese Huyan accepts the Yogachara view with a few modifications.
Hosso and Kegon barely exists as living schools. No idea about Jonang. Its weird that people assert these are vital contemporary lineages.
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
narhwal90
Global Moderator
Posts: 3509
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 3:10 am
Location: Baltimore, MD

Re: Did Nichiren introduced yogachara concept in his teaching or were they already part of tendai?

Post by narhwal90 »

Aemilius wrote: Wed Jun 01, 2022 8:27 am
Vert wrote: Tue May 31, 2022 9:48 pm
Aemilius wrote: Tue May 31, 2022 11:22 am In 1970's Nichiren school sent their english literature to the European libraries, sometimes they were catalogued and made available for public. I read a couple of those books. At that time Nichiren school used the Nine consciousnesses version of yogachara, it was said to be the epitome of Yogachara and really important.
Could you tell me which school this books belonged to and their names
I'm sorry, it is such a long time ago, and I dutifully returned the books to the library. I would bet that they were published by SGI (SokaGakkai).
70's vintage material would very likely be Soka Gakki, at the time oriented around the Nichiren Shoshu school. It would be interesting to compare older editions to newer. OTOH I agree with Q, NIchiren uses the 9 Consciousness briefly model in support of his Ichinen Sanzen & Three Truths arguments- the latter two are the foundations of practice. Please correct me if I'm mistaken but the basic Yogachara model provides 8 levels, the 9th was adopted very early on by several Mahayana schools (including Tendai) perhaps to illustrate the presence of buddha nature in all beings.
User avatar
Queequeg
Former staff member
Posts: 14456
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:24 pm

Re: Did Nichiren introduced yogachara concept in his teaching or were they already part of tendai?

Post by Queequeg »

narhwal90 wrote: Wed Jun 01, 2022 12:52 pm
Aemilius wrote: Wed Jun 01, 2022 8:27 am
Vert wrote: Tue May 31, 2022 9:48 pm

Could you tell me which school this books belonged to and their names
I'm sorry, it is such a long time ago, and I dutifully returned the books to the library. I would bet that they were published by SGI (SokaGakkai).
70's vintage material would very likely be Soka Gakki, at the time oriented around the Nichiren Shoshu school. It would be interesting to compare older editions to newer. OTOH I agree with Q, NIchiren uses the 9 Consciousness briefly model in support of his Ichinen Sanzen & Three Truths arguments- the latter two are the foundations of practice. Please correct me if I'm mistaken but the basic Yogachara model provides 8 levels, the 9th was adopted very early on by several Mahayana schools (including Tendai) perhaps to illustrate the presence of buddha nature in all beings.
If you can get a hold of issues of Nichiren Shoshu Quarterly from the 70s and early 80s, those were some excellent materials. We have a bunch of those at my parent's house. Unfortunately, in most cases, the people who would be collecting those are coming to the end of life and I doubt their caretakers have any idea what kinds of treasures those magazines are. Years ago a friend of my mother died and left a complete collection. We donated it to the local Culture Center. They threw them out. I wrote a letter shaming them for doing that, for one treating such a donation to their library with such disregard but also the disregard for the value of the content. They realized what a mistake they made and apologized, but the act was complete. F'in Gakkai. I digress.

If someone were to find a collection and were so inclined to scan and upload them to the net, it would be of great benefit, I think.

Though some sources trickled in earlier, Yogacara wasn't really introduced until Xuanzang returned from India. The established schools were compelled to account for this novel tradition. It conflicted, however, with the established view of universal buddha-nature. Its ideas were integrated but had to be fit within the existing frameworks. Arguably, that's why Paramartha's introduction of Amala-vijnana was embraced. Clearly the introduction of Yogacara influenced the emergence of some Chinese traditions, but its bigger ideas were not accepted widely. Universal Buddha Nature/Single Vehicle is the prevailing East Asian view.
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
User avatar
Aemilius
Posts: 4604
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2010 11:44 am

Re: Did Nichiren introduced yogachara concept in his teaching or were they already part of tendai?

Post by Aemilius »

Lankavatara sutra section Sagathakam (Verses), verse 13, says: "By wrong discrimination the Vijñana-system rises; severally as eightfold, as ninefold, like waves on the great ocean."
The Samdhinirmocana sutra Chapter 10., The Questions of Mañjushri, speaks a lot about the manifestation of impure and pure realms. "Well-established transformation of the basis", asrayaparavritti-samudgama, would certainly be equal to amala-vijñana. Thus the idea and teaching of pure and impure manifestation exists already in the Lankavatara and Samdhinirmocana Mahayana sutras.
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)
Post Reply

Return to “Nichiren”