Compassion for buddhas and boddhisatvas

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Chinnamasta
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Compassion for buddhas and boddhisatvas

Post by Chinnamasta »

Hi, l was wondering something. It is generally said you can reach liberation without boddhicitta, but not become a buddha or boddhisatva without it.
Are there texts or comentaries that says why that is? Like what is the science here at work for some realization not to occur without boddhicitta?
Kai lord
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Re: Compassion for buddhas and boddhisatvas

Post by Kai lord »

You need bodhicitta to remove obstacles to omniscience.

Meditating on freedom from the four extremes alone only remove afflictive obstacles to passion and that is why it's the cause for liberation.
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Chinnamasta
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Re: Compassion for buddhas and boddhisatvas

Post by Chinnamasta »

Kai lord wrote: Fri May 20, 2022 2:24 pm You need bodhicitta to remove obstacles to omniscience.

Meditating on freedom from the four extremes alone only remove afflictive obstacles to passion and that is why it's the cause for liberation.
Ok thank you, but I am not sure if I follow?
What sorts of obstacles is it boddhicitta remove, that other meditations don't?
Kai lord
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Re: Compassion for buddhas and boddhisatvas

Post by Kai lord »

Chinnamasta wrote: Fri May 20, 2022 3:56 pm
Kai lord wrote: Fri May 20, 2022 2:24 pm You need bodhicitta to remove obstacles to omniscience.

Meditating on freedom from the four extremes alone only remove afflictive obstacles to passion and that is why it's the cause for liberation.
Ok thank you, but I am not sure if I follow?
What sorts of obstacles is it boddhicitta remove, that other meditations don't?
Bodhicitta removes cognitive obstacles which are your environmentally induced and innate habits and tendencies that prevent you from knowing all phenomenons.

The ten fetters that Theravada school refers to, corresponds to the doctrinally induced and nine innate sets of afflictive obstacles of emotion.
Life is like a game, either you win or lose!
Life is like a fight, either you live or die!
Life is like a show, either you laugh or cry!
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Ayu
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Re: Compassion for buddhas and boddhisatvas

Post by Ayu »

I heard in a lecture about Lamrim (Tsongkhapa) that Bodhicitta is the gate to becoming a Bodhisattva.
The wish for the benefit of all beings is the gate to realize Bodhicitta. I hope, I remembered that correctly.
Kai lord
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Re: Compassion for buddhas and boddhisatvas

Post by Kai lord »

According to Lord Tsongkhapa if I remember correctly,
Meditating on the freedom from four extremes, is the sharp knife severing all the wrong views and attachments.
Bodhicitta is the strong pushing force behind that sharp knife
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Life is like a fight, either you live or die!
Life is like a show, either you laugh or cry!
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Chinnamasta
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Re: Compassion for buddhas and boddhisatvas

Post by Chinnamasta »

Kai lord wrote: Fri May 20, 2022 4:39 pm
Chinnamasta wrote: Fri May 20, 2022 3:56 pm
Kai lord wrote: Fri May 20, 2022 2:24 pm You need bodhicitta to remove obstacles to omniscience.

Meditating on freedom from the four extremes alone only remove afflictive obstacles to passion and that is why it's the cause for liberation.
Ok thank you, but I am not sure if I follow?
What sorts of obstacles is it boddhicitta remove, that other meditations don't?
Bodhicitta removes cognitive obstacles which are your environmentally induced and innate habits and tendencies that prevent you from knowing all phenomenons.

The ten fetters that Theravada school refers to, corresponds to the doctrinally induced and nine innate sets of afflictive obstacles of emotion.
Ok, thanks. Just googled it and found this: http://www.acmuller.net/kor-bud/phil_of ... angui.html
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Re: Compassion for buddhas and boddhisatvas

Post by Schrödinger’s Yidam »

Without bodhicitta the liberation of a Shravakayana Arhat is possible.

But that entails a whole lot of renunciation—and many lifetimes.
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
Impermanente vacuite
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Re: Compassion for buddhas and boddhisatvas

Post by Impermanente vacuite »

I think that even someone Aline on a island, in thé deep of a chasm, a cave, a cavern Can have a " boddhicita " view and Can live a awakening and become a boddhisatva.
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Re: Compassion for buddhas and boddhisatvas

Post by ozymandias »

I think a Buddha is basically an extroverted arahat. They have the desire to teach and spread their wisdom. While most people are more introverted and self centered.
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Re: Compassion for buddhas and boddhisatvas

Post by Konchog1 »

Because wishing to save infinite beings from infinite sufferings creates the infinite merit necessary for complete Enlightenment. Nagarjuna talks about this in Bodhisambharasastra, but I don't remember the verse number.
Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.

-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra

"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."

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Tao
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Re: Compassion for buddhas and boddhisatvas

Post by Tao »

ozymandias wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 11:21 pm I think a Buddha is basically an extroverted arahat. They have the desire to teach and spread their wisdom. While most people are more introverted and self centered.
An Arahant is someone has killed all emotions.
A Bodhisattva Mahasattva is someone has killed all emotion except compassion.

That's the reason for non-cessation and keeping a continuum for rebirth instead of parinirvana.

So the difference is basically a radical cutivation of compassion.
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Re: Compassion for buddhas and boddhisatvas

Post by Impermanente vacuite »

Thanks everyone

Do someone know how to recognize Maitreya.

IS there some signs that will bé there juste before or during his life hère ? 🙄
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Re: Compassion for buddhas and boddhisatvas

Post by Dhammanando »

Tao wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 8:25 am An Arahant is someone has killed all emotions.
A Bodhisattva Mahasattva is someone has killed all emotion except compassion.
Have you a source for these claims?

Why do you suppose the Buddha exhorted his first sixty arahant disciples to "wander forth out of compassion for the world" if (being emotionless arahants) they didn't have any compassion for the world?
Then the Buddha addressed those monks: “I’m free from all snares, both human and divine. You, too, are free from all snares, both human and divine. Go wandering, monks, for the benefit and happiness of humanity, out of compassion for the world, for the good, benefit, happiness of gods and humans. You should each go a different way. Proclaim the Teaching that is good in the beginning, good in the middle, and good in the end, that has a true goal and is well articulated. Set out the perfectly complete and pure spiritual life. There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are ruined because of not hearing the Teaching. There will be those who understand. I too will go to Uruvelā, to Senānigama, to proclaim the Teaching.”

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Re: Compassion for buddhas and boddhisatvas

Post by Tao »

>Why do you suppose the Buddha exhorted his first sixty arahant disciples to "wander forth out of compassion for the world" if (being emotionless arahants) they didn't have any compassion for the world?

I dont suppose. I prefer to hear you opinion on the matter. No need for being harsh.
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Re: Compassion for buddhas and boddhisatvas

Post by Dhammanando »

Tao wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 9:53 am I dont suppose. I prefer to hear you opinion on the matter.
The notion that arahantship results in a blanket elimination of all emotions is not supported in any Buddhist text with which I'm familiar. But that of course leaves open the possibility that it's supported in some text presently unknown to me, which is why I asked you for a source.

My understanding is that arahantship brings about an irreversible elimination of unwholesome mental factors, while leaving the wholesome ones (including compassion) wholly intact.
Tao wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 9:53 amNo need for being harsh.
When I open a sentence with, "Why do you suppose...?" I'm generally being quizzical, not harsh.
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Re: Compassion for buddhas and boddhisatvas

Post by Tao »

>My understanding is that arahantship brings about an irreversible elimination of unwholesome mental factors, while leaving the wholesome ones (including compassion) wholly intact.

Ok, thank you a lot, and then what's the difference with a mahayana bodhisattva mahasattva in your view? (let's say in the tenth bhumi)

Best wishes :namaste: :namaste:
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Re: Compassion for buddhas and boddhisatvas

Post by Anders »

Tao wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 2:17 pm >My understanding is that arahantship brings about an irreversible elimination of unwholesome mental factors, while leaving the wholesome ones (including compassion) wholly intact.

Ok, thank you a lot, and then what's the difference with a mahayana bodhisattva mahasattva in your view? (let's say in the tenth bhumi)

Best wishes :namaste: :namaste:
The difference, compassionwise, is that the compassion of a Bodhisattva is of a character that spurs the Bodhisattva to keep being reborn, whilst the compassion of an arhat is, functionally at any rate, limited in scope to the beings they encounter in the remainder of their lifespan.

But that is not to say that an arhat is in any way necessarily lacking in compassion. Conversely, a great reserve of compassion is not necessarily a requisite for arhatship the way it is for a mahasattva.
"Even if my body should be burnt to death in the fires of hell
I would endure it for myriad lifetimes
As your companion in practice"

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Re: Compassion for buddhas and boddhisatvas

Post by Dhammanando »

Anders wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 2:56 pmwhilst the compassion of an arhat is, functionally at any rate, limited in scope to the beings they encounter in the remainder of their lifespan.
The functional scope of an arahant's compassion may extend to later generations too.

Forest-dwelling monks, for example, are beneficiaries of the compassion of venerable Mahākassapa. Likewise rag-robe-wearing monks, triple-robe-wearing monks, cemetery-dwelling monks, etc., etc.

Recall the aging Kassapa's explanation as to why he wouldn't accept the Buddha's invitation to lighten up on the ascetic stuff:
“I have compassion for later generations, thinking, ‘May those of later generations follow my example!’ For when they hear, ‘The enlightened disciples of the Buddha were for a long time forest dwellers and spoke in praise of forest dwelling … were energetic and spoke in praise of arousing energy,’ then they will practise accordingly, and that will lead to their welfare and happiness for a long time. Considering these two benefits, venerable sir, I have long been a forest dweller … and have spoken in praise of arousing energy.”

“Good, good, Kassapa! You are practising for the welfare and happiness of the multitude, out of compassion for the world, for the good, welfare, and happiness of devas and humans. Therefore, Kassapa, wear worn-out hempen rag-robes, walk for alms, and dwell in the forest.”

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Re: Compassion for buddhas and boddhisatvas

Post by Tao »

>a great reserve of compassion is not necessarily a requisite for arhatship the way it is for a mahasattva.

:namaste: :thumbsup:
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