Heart Sutra question

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clyde
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Heart Sutra question

Post by clyde »

I was wondering . . . in the Heart Sutra is a long, comprehensive list of what is absent in emptiness (no form, no sensation, . . .), is it implied that “in emptiness there is no karma and no fruits of karma”?
“Enlightenment means to see what harm you are involved in and to renounce it.” David Brazier, The New Buddhism

“The most straightforward advice on awakening enlightened mind is this: practice not causing harm to anyone—yourself or others—and every day, do what you can to be helpful.” Pema Chodron, “What to Do When the Going Gets Rough”
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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: Heart Sutra question

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

clyde wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 6:38 am I was wondering . . . in the Heart Sutra is a long, comprehensive list of what is absent in emptiness (no form, no sensation, . . .), is it implied that “in emptiness there is no karma and no fruits of karma”?
Definitely, the sutra addresses the 12 links directly…. So it’s not even implicit, it’s explicit.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared

-Khunu Lama
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Zhen Li
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Re: Heart Sutra question

Post by Zhen Li »

This is an interesting topic. I was just thinking about the Ajātaśatrukaukṛtyavinodana in this regard. Ajātaśatru overcomes his doubts and remorse that prevents him from practising by realising emptiness—that there is no karma or fruits of karma. Here thereafter receives a prediction of his Buddhahood. And yet, he still must suffer in hell for a brief time due to his patricide.

I think this can be understood like a kind of principle intersecting with phenomena (li and shi) spoken of in Huayen Buddhism.
Soma999
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Re: Heart Sutra question

Post by Soma999 »

Even thought he is going to hell for a short time, it will not bring suffering, the sutra said.

How is it possible ?

Sometime in life you can have difficulties, and still, inside, peace is in no way lacking. You can even feel bliss.

His realisation of emptiness really purified him so deep.
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Zhen Li
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Re: Heart Sutra question

Post by Zhen Li »

Soma999 wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 8:55 am Even thought he is going to hell for a short time, it will not bring suffering, the sutra said.

How is it possible ?

Sometime in life you can have difficulties, and still, inside, peace is in no way lacking. You can even feel bliss.

His realisation of emptiness really purified him so deep.
Śāriputra asked the Buddha:
"That is extremely remarkable! So, the crimes of Ajātaśatru have been lightened?"

The Buddha asked if Śāriputra knew about the king's past. He didn't, so he told him:

"This King Ajātaśatru made offerings to seventy-three koṭis of buddhas. He followed each of those buddhas and always listened to the profound Dharma, and his mind was not separated from the aspiration to attain anuttara-samyak-saṃbodhi."

He continues to explain how the king had practised as a bodhisattva for an unimaginably long time now, all because he listened to and followed Mañjuśrī's teachings (i.e. Prajñāpāramitā).

So, yes, his deeds were lightened but they also were part of a manifestation—including the deeds of Devadatta who apparently deceived the King. So, this is not necessarily a story that is directly translatable to our daily lives. So, while the King was able to overcome suffering due to the realisation of emptiness, he also cultivated for countless kalpas. This is somewhat like the distinction between sudden and gradual awakening—although someone may attain sudden awakening here, they may have practised for kalpas in the past.

Anyway, there's another point to the Buddha's relating Ajātaśatru's situation:

"Do not treat anyone lightly. Why? Because treating someone lightly incurs a fault. I know what people have done, and I know what is not known, including where they are destined. Only a buddha knows these things."

Śāriputra replies:

"This matter is very subtle, but I have finally understood it. From now and hereafter, I dare not again say that such and such a person is a bad person or that such and such a person is a meritorious person. Why? Because we cannot conceive of all the actions that have been performed by someone, in the way the Buddha explained, such that we would know what results will come to Ajātaśatru."

So, yes. Prajñāpāramitā overcomes karma. And karmic recompense is still there. Yet, these are not contradictory, and easing the burden can take place. But understanding that this is incomprehensible, we should not calculate or scheme regarding our deeds and emptiness. Simply practice the path as best as you can and hold firm to bodhicitta.
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