Is love an illusion?

General discussion, particularly exploring the Dharma in the modern world.
CPawo
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Re: Is love an illusion?

Post by CPawo »

Aryjna wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 4:08 pm
CPawo wrote: Tue Jun 07, 2022 5:56 pm Love is no illusion. The pursuit of and idea of love is an illusion - those are products of the thinking/desiring/controlling mind.

Buddha taught the 4 Immeasurable Minds - Love, Compassion, Joy, and Equanimity. Immeasurable meaning if practiced they grow in your life exponentially. These 4 components are taught as the 4 abodes of true love.

Love is the energy of the universe that creates, penetrates, and connects us all. It can only be truly experienced in the present moment. This is taught by many of the wisdom traditions.
All these have nothing to do with the dharma. It sounds like new age soup.
Did my best to answer the question from my perspective and experience. Didn't speak to you and that's OK.

The 4 Immeasurable Minds have nothing to do with the Dharma? Curious on that one, care to elaborate when you get a moment?
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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: Is love an illusion?

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

CPawo wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 9:20 pm
Aryjna wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 4:08 pm
CPawo wrote: Tue Jun 07, 2022 5:56 pm Love is no illusion. The pursuit of and idea of love is an illusion - those are products of the thinking/desiring/controlling mind.

Buddha taught the 4 Immeasurable Minds - Love, Compassion, Joy, and Equanimity. Immeasurable meaning if practiced they grow in your life exponentially. These 4 components are taught as the 4 abodes of true love.

Love is the energy of the universe that creates, penetrates, and connects us all. It can only be truly experienced in the present moment. This is taught by many of the wisdom traditions.
All these have nothing to do with the dharma. It sounds like new age soup.
Did my best to answer the question from my perspective and experience. Didn't speak to you and that's OK.

The 4 Immeasurable Minds have nothing to do with the Dharma? Curious on that one, care to elaborate when you get a moment?
I think it’s more that your description of the Four Immeasurables came off sounding very perennialist and less Buddhist. That’s a minority position around here, generally speaking.

So for example, in Buddhism I have never heard of metta/maitri being taught as “one of four abodes of true love”, that reads as more perennialist language and is vague in meaning. Who describes them as that, and what does that mean, what is “true love” as opposed to the false variety?

Generally when my teachers talked about loving kindness they emphasized the boundary- removing qualities of these states, their beneficent effects on relative situations, etc.. but avoided statements that read them as an immovable source or a thing, as an “energy that connects the universe” that “can only be experienced in the moment” or anything like that.

That is not a typically Buddhist way of approaching the Four Immeasurables, in my experience. It is much more perennialist or Christian to me, where there is actually some separate and tangible “source” of love which one needs to connect with.

So, while of course personal narratives can be nice, I can see why some people would question whether this is a Buddhist view or something else. Still, language is language and sometimes splitting hairs only goes so far.
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Aryjna
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Re: Is love an illusion?

Post by Aryjna »

CPawo wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 9:20 pm The 4 Immeasurable Minds have nothing to do with the Dharma? Curious on that one, care to elaborate when you get a moment?
I was not referring to the four immeasurables themselves as having nothing to do with the dharma, but to most other things in the previous post.

In addition to the above response, the four immeasurables, as well as any kind of "true love" or anything else that comes out of them, are as illusory as everything else. You can find explanations regarding the illusory nature of things in various texts.
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Re: Is love an illusion?

Post by muni »

Love is no illusion. The pursuit of and idea of love is an illusion - those are products of the thinking/desiring/controlling mind.

Buddha taught the 4 Immeasurable Minds - Love, Compassion, Joy, and Equanimity. Immeasurable meaning if practiced they grow in your life exponentially. These 4 components are taught as the 4 abodes of true love.

Love is the energy of the universe that creates, penetrates, and connects us all.
I try to understand, so I could be wrong.

The love for this one and the aversion for the other one, that I think most will agree, is grasping. And the emotions as such could be called illusion.

Rejecting love, I wouldn't. It could lead to attachment to emptiness. Since according to Dharma, all is empty, the self as well as the other.
But theory is not the same as practice leading to understanding what is not theory. Theory is pointing to only, to become practice. And that is not nothingness.

Mostly love is understood as something between two persons or some more. This love could change to hatred as well, because these are often by grasping. That could be called illusion.
Then there is the selfless quality as Tara, Chenrezig, Quanyin: including all/nature all-inclusive. ( emptiness-dependence)

On the path of awakening, loving kindness ( and the other immeasurable) is very useful to break out of our small self- shell in which we are caught due to the believe in an independent self with its particular qualities. Everyone deserves to be able to break through this, and thereby be freed from suffering.
CPawo
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Re: Is love an illusion?

Post by CPawo »

Johnny Dangerous wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 11:19 pm
CPawo wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 9:20 pm
Aryjna wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 4:08 pm
All these have nothing to do with the dharma. It sounds like new age soup.
Did my best to answer the question from my perspective and experience. Didn't speak to you and that's OK.

The 4 Immeasurable Minds have nothing to do with the Dharma? Curious on that one, care to elaborate when you get a moment?
I think it’s more that your description of the Four Immeasurables came off sounding very perennialist and less Buddhist. That’s a minority position around here, generally speaking.

So for example, in Buddhism I have never heard of metta/maitri being taught as “one of four abodes of true love”, that reads as more perennialist language and is vague in meaning. Who describes them as that, and what does that mean, what is “true love” as opposed to the false variety?

Generally when my teachers talked about loving kindness they emphasized the boundary- removing qualities of these states, their beneficent effects on relative situations, etc.. but avoided statements that read them as an immovable source or a thing, as an “energy that connects the universe” that “can only be experienced in the moment” or anything like that.

That is not a typically Buddhist way of approaching the Four Immeasurables, in my experience. It is much more perennialist or Christian to me, where there is actually some separate and tangible “source” of love which one needs to connect with.

So, while of course personal narratives can be nice, I can see why some people would question whether this is a Buddhist view or something else. Still, language is language and sometimes splitting hairs only goes so far.
Appreciate the thoughtful response, thank you.

Thich Nhat Hanh in his book The Heart of the Buddha's Teachings on The Four Immeasurable Minds (chapter 22) teaches/refers to them that way. I tried to address how we make love an illusion - it's a product of the thinking/desiring/controlling mind (passion/aggression/ignorance). Pursuing or trying to possess something is an illusion. It's not love in my opinion when that is occurring, but many believe it to be - thus love becomes an illusion for them (false love I guess for this discussion). Love is a loaded word of course.

You can only experience anything in the moment. I'm sure we agree on that. I do believe when the veil/layer of protection (ego) we all have over ourselves is removed you experience a connection with the world/people that is hard to explain - it's a bit overwhelming. You (egoic you) don't exist anymore, you're a part of something much bigger than yourself. I'm not intimating a separate and tangible source - you just realize that when you strip away the protective ego we all have you become a part of the present moment. I've only experienced this a few times.

I do have a bit of perennialist in me in that I do believe the wisdom traditions do point towards the same/similar things (not talking about a God or source here). The teachings of Buddha and Jesus (not Christianity) for instance - Thich Nhat Hanh even wrote a book about it. When you read Jack Kornfield, Thomas Merton, Thich Nhat Hanh, Rob Bell, Ken Mcleod, Anthony de Mello, Pema Chodron, Chogyam Trungpa, Lao Tzu, etc... they are pointing in the same direction if you will. If that makes me a perennialist then so be it, I'm not much into labels.

Hopefully this didn't make it worse :)
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Re: Is love an illusion?

Post by CPawo »

Aryjna wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 6:01 am
CPawo wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 9:20 pm The 4 Immeasurable Minds have nothing to do with the Dharma? Curious on that one, care to elaborate when you get a moment?
I was not referring to the four immeasurables themselves as having nothing to do with the dharma, but to most other things in the previous post.

In addition to the above response, the four immeasurables, as well as any kind of "true love" or anything else that comes out of them, are as illusory as everything else. You can find explanations regarding the illusory nature of things in various texts.
I was confused then by your response. My apologies.
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oryoki
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Re: Is love an illusion?

Post by oryoki »

That reminds me … Once I worked in Abu Dhabi with young engineer from India. When he was going home for his vacation I asked him: “What are you going to do on your leave?” He replied: “I am going to get married.” I said: “So you know the girl for some time.” He said: “I really don’t know her. My parents selected her for me.” I asked: “What about love?” He replied: “We really do not have concept of love, instead we have friendship and lust. We have to become friends if we are to make our marriage work; and as far as the lust goes, we are both young, thus all you have to do, is to put us in the same bed and switch off the lights.” :)
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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: Is love an illusion?

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

Yeah our concept of romantic love is really silly TBH, a healthier thing to aspire for in a partnership IMO is 1) regular sex and 2) deep and lasting friendship.

To be honest every successful long term romantic relationship I’ve ever seen is based on those things, and that ones based purely on this concept of “true love” as distinct from those things tend to do poorly.
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Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

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Re: Is love an illusion?

Post by MagnetSoulSP »

Bristollad wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 9:18 am
Ardha wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 4:04 am I think that might depend on the kind of mother that you had. That they birthed us, I feel, isn't something to praise them for.
One of my teachers, when talking about remembering the kindness of our mothers, emphasized that thinking about the suffering our mothers went through whilst pregnant and when giving birth should be enough. Any difficulties we might have subsequently had growing up were irrelevant to the great gift she had bestowed on us, our birth. Your view that your birth was unkindly thrust upon you disregards the Buddhist understanding of rebirth.

You complain that your mother doesn't actually love you because she has her own views and ideas about what you could do and be and what would make you happy. Yet you seem to limit your own acceptance of your mother because she disagrees with your views.

As has been said to you a few times, I advise you to put aside the teachings on anatman and emptiness for now and concentrate on ethics, meditation practice and developing the four immeasurable thoughts: these are metta (loving kindness), karuna (compassion), mudita (sympathetic joy or empathy), and upekkha (equanimity). Start doing them with those people you find easy, and then gradually expand your focus to include those who are more difficult.
I still do not agree that such a suffering means anything. Birthing a child is itself a selfish act, giving life to something based on your own desire without asking the being if it wants to exist. To view birth as a gift, to me shows an extreme bias and it's looking at things evenly.

I would also not say it is limiting oneself to acknowledge a parent who refuses to accept the reality that their child is their own being and not just an extension of themselves. A lot of parents see their children and something to control and shape and get angry when their children end up defying their expectations of what it is they wished for them. You can find scores of accounts of "Tiger moms" who push their children too hard in school and life only for them to wind up "running away" or when they grow up to want nothing to do with them. A prime example are the scores of LGBTQ+ youth who flee abusive homes because they weren't what their parents expected them to be and never will. Some parents accept their children as they are and love blooms as a result, some just won't let go of their image of what their child "ought" to be and lose out.

I think it's too simplistic to view people in that manner, to treat them all equally. Some need to see they can't just treat people poorly and not expect consequences. Or to use a common phrase "they can dish it out but can't take it".
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Re: Is love an illusion?

Post by Bristollad »

Ardha wrote: Fri Jun 10, 2022 2:47 am I still do not agree that such a suffering means anything. Birthing a child is itself a selfish act, giving life to something based on your own desire without asking the being if it wants to exist. To view birth as a gift, to me shows an extreme bias and it's looking at things evenly.
You don't think that the trouble and suffering a woman can go through whilst pregnant means anything? That suggests a strong lack of empathy and compassion, perhaps something you could work on.

I don't know how old you are, but the fantasy of a perfect parent who always accepts and supports their children without a single selfish motivation sounds like it comes from someone very young. Sentient beings are all flawed. Most teenagers fight with their parents, it's a normal part of growing up for the teenager, and it's also a normal part of learning to let go for parents. My father and I had a couple of decades where we barely said hello. And we never agreed about some social issues BUT I have no doubt of the love my father always had for me when I look back as a mature adult.

As I said, your position ignores Buddhist teaching on karma and rebirth. Do you believe in them?
Your parents are not responsible for your suffering, you are.
Our suffering now is due to our previously accumulated karma ripening due to suitable conditions occurring. If you don't like suffering, work on not creating more causes for it in the future.
The antidote—to be free from the suffering of samsara—you need to be free from delusion and karma; you need to be free from ignorance, the root of samsara. So you need to meditate on emptiness. That is what you need. Lama Zopa Rinpoche
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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: Is love an illusion?

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

Ardha wrote: Fri Jun 10, 2022 2:47 am
Bristollad wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 9:18 am
Ardha wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 4:04 am I think that might depend on the kind of mother that you had. That they birthed us, I feel, isn't something to praise them for.
One of my teachers, when talking about remembering the kindness of our mothers, emphasized that thinking about the suffering our mothers went through whilst pregnant and when giving birth should be enough. Any difficulties we might have subsequently had growing up were irrelevant to the great gift she had bestowed on us, our birth. Your view that your birth was unkindly thrust upon you disregards the Buddhist understanding of rebirth.

You complain that your mother doesn't actually love you because she has her own views and ideas about what you could do and be and what would make you happy. Yet you seem to limit your own acceptance of your mother because she disagrees with your views.

As has been said to you a few times, I advise you to put aside the teachings on anatman and emptiness for now and concentrate on ethics, meditation practice and developing the four immeasurable thoughts: these are metta (loving kindness), karuna (compassion), mudita (sympathetic joy or empathy), and upekkha (equanimity). Start doing them with those people you find easy, and then gradually expand your focus to include those who are more difficult.
I still do not agree that such a suffering means anything. Birthing a child is itself a selfish act, giving life to something based on your own desire without asking the being if it wants to exist. To view birth as a gift, to me shows an extreme bias and it's looking at things evenly.
I think a lot of what you say about other people’s motives is projection. You don’t know what’s in the heads of mothers, These are just your own appearances.
I would also not say it is limiting oneself to acknowledge a parent who refuses to accept the reality that their child is their own being and not just an extension of themselves. A lot of parents see their children and something to control and shape and get angry when their children end up defying their expectations of what it is they wished for them. You can find scores of accounts of "Tiger moms" who push their children too hard in school and life only for them to wind up "running away" or when they grow up to want nothing to do with them. A prime example are the scores of LGBTQ+ youth who flee abusive homes because they weren't what their parents expected them to be and never will. Some parents accept their children as they are and love blooms as a result, some just won't let go of their image of what their child "ought" to be and lose out.


I think it's too simplistic to view people in that manner, to treat them all equally. Some need to see they can't just treat people poorly and not expect consequences. Or to use a common phrase "they can dish it out but can't take it".
Indeed.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared

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Re: Is love an illusion?

Post by MagnetSoulSP »

Bristollad wrote: Fri Jun 10, 2022 10:13 am
Ardha wrote: Fri Jun 10, 2022 2:47 am I still do not agree that such a suffering means anything. Birthing a child is itself a selfish act, giving life to something based on your own desire without asking the being if it wants to exist. To view birth as a gift, to me shows an extreme bias and it's looking at things evenly.
You don't think that the trouble and suffering a woman can go through whilst pregnant means anything? That suggests a strong lack of empathy and compassion, perhaps something you could work on.

I don't know how old you are, but the fantasy of a perfect parent who always accepts and supports their children without a single selfish motivation sounds like it comes from someone very young. Sentient beings are all flawed. Most teenagers fight with their parents, it's a normal part of growing up for the teenager, and it's also a normal part of learning to let go for parents. My father and I had a couple of decades where we barely said hello. And we never agreed about some social issues BUT I have no doubt of the love my father always had for me when I look back as a mature adult.

As I said, your position ignores Buddhist teaching on karma and rebirth. Do you believe in them?
Your parents are not responsible for your suffering, you are.
Our suffering now is due to our previously accumulated karma ripening due to suitable conditions occurring. If you don't like suffering, work on not creating more causes for it in the future.
I would be to differ that they are not responsible for my suffering. It's mostly because of my mother that I have a host of psychological hang-ups to deal with as an adult, zero confidence being one of them as well as a very unhealthy view of how relationships work. I think that's a dangerous idea to say also because one's conditions aren't always in their control. Kids are born into abusive families and grow up poorly. Some people end up with abusive partners who blindsided them when they got married or moved in (a disturbingly common occurrence). It's not always people's fault for what happens to them, a lot of times it's forces out of their control. To say otherwise is victim-blaming. I don't believe in karma and I don't think Buddha did either, at least not in the mystical sense but more cause and effect.
You don't think that the trouble and suffering a woman can go through whilst pregnant means anything? That suggests a strong lack of empathy and compassion, perhaps something you could work on.
There's nothing to work on there. The decision to have a child is purely selfish, forcing life onto something that never asked for it and is expected to live from then on for the sake of those who made the choice for them. I'm sorry but from a balanced view (as some would argue) giving birth isn't something to celebrate. The one coming out did not ask to be born and must content with the issues of life.
I don't know how old you are, but the fantasy of a perfect parent who always accepts and supports their children without a single selfish motivation sounds like it comes from someone very young. Sentient beings are all flawed. Most teenagers fight with their parents, it's a normal part of growing up for the teenager, and it's also a normal part of learning to let go for parents. My father and I had a couple of decades where we barely said hello. And we never agreed about some social issues BUT I have no doubt of the love my father always had for me when I look back as a mature adult.
It's not though, a good deal of parents eventually adapt once they see their child is their own person and NOT what they want them to be. So they work to support them, let them make their own mistakes, and offer help if they need it. The end result is their child grows to be a well adjusted adult. Then you get parents that refuse to see that, like my mother, and keep trying to make their child into something that fits their vision for them rather than accept their kid as they are. Parents who fail to do that end up with kids who want nothing to do with them. It's one thing for teens to fight with their parents over disagreements but I think you're downplaying what actually goes on in those toxic dynamics. My mother could never let go, ever. In arguments she refused to admit when she was wrong (always changing the subject when she was caught out or she would have my dad back her up and he never said no to her) and she always tried to force her way on other people. She loved her idea of what I was rather than accepting reality. That I wasn't a drinker, I didn't party, I didn't want to go out a lot and I preferred to either be on my own or do nerdy stuff.

It's like a romantic relationship. At the beginning it's all butterflies and sweetness but that fades and then the real test comes. Your idea of them falls away and you have to see them for the person they are. Tons of couples fail because they can't accept their partner for the person they are and break up. And it doesn't stop there, people change over time and those couples that survive adapt to those changes. It's accepting others aren't perfect. But even those people learn from their mistakes not try to insist they are in the right the whole time.

I don't think everyone deserve compassion. I think they need to understand their actions do have an impact and if they want to be stubborn and insist they can't be at fault then they have to deal with people not being around them. I can accept folks aren't perfect but I also know some won't learn that fact without some degree of pain and failure.
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Re: Is love an illusion?

Post by Bristollad »

Ardha wrote: Sat Jun 11, 2022 4:12 am It's not always people's fault for what happens to them, a lot of times it's forces out of their control. To say otherwise is victim-blaming. I don't believe in karma and I don't think Buddha did either, at least not in the mystical sense but more cause and effect.
Ardha wrote: Sat Jun 11, 2022 4:12 am I don't think everyone deserve compassion.
Please read and think about these verses from the Wheel of Sharp Weapons:

All of the sufferings that we have endured
In the lives we have led in the three lower states,
As well as our pains of the present and future,
Are the same as the case of the forger of arrows
Who later was killed by an arrow he had made.
Our suffering is the wheel of sharp weapons returning
Full circle upon us from wrong we have done.
Hereafter let's always have care and awareness
Never to act in non-virtuous ways.


and

Someone gives us advice from the depths of his heart,
Which is for our own good, but is harsh to our ears,
And with anger we view him as if he is our foe.
Yet when someone without any true feelings for us
Deceitfully tells us what we like to hear,
Without taste or discernment we are kind in return.
Trample him, trample him, dance on the head
Of this treacherous concept of selfish concern,
Tear out the heart of this self-centred butcher
Who slaughters our chance to gain final release.


and

When we closely examine effects and their causes,
We see that they both lack inherent existence
They cannot stand alone, either whole or apart
Yet there seem to exist independently rising
And falling events, which, in fact, are conditioned
By various forces, components and parts,
It is this very level on which we experience
Birth and our death and whatever life brings.
So please, in this world of appearances only,
Let's always be sure what we do is of virtue
And shun all the acts that would cause us great pain.


see this link for some teachings on this powerful lojong text: https://archive.org/details/WheelOfSharpWeapons2016

I hope one day you will gain a better understanding of your mother's difficulties and that she better understands yours. May compassion grow within you for all sentient beings, without stint or favour.
The antidote—to be free from the suffering of samsara—you need to be free from delusion and karma; you need to be free from ignorance, the root of samsara. So you need to meditate on emptiness. That is what you need. Lama Zopa Rinpoche
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Re: Is love an illusion?

Post by MagnetSoulSP »

I think you are being too lenient to people for their own actions. Thing is my mom isn't the only one who suffered as she did and I don't see my aunt or grandmother doing what she does. I really think you are glossing over the details and trying to sweep it all over with general suffering but life is messier than that.

Not everyone who suffers is because of their own actions or choices, in fact many suffer due to forces beyond their control. I also doubt your compassion grows as it seems to miss out on the minor details which are vital to understanding. It sounds more like generic "goodwill" same way people refer to a population as people but fail to grasp the scale of what it is they are saying. People don't generally understand what they mean by "people" they know it's about 8 billion but that number is more abstract than concrete. I think in your case it sounds like a misunderstanding of the details which make cases important. I say that because I thought Buddhism was against violence even for self defense but in the thread I made I saw that it was way more complicated than that. So in this case suffering is way more complicated than you imagine it to be.

My mom couldn't understand my problems because she couldn't accept me for the person that I was. She always tried to make me into something I wasn't. I still recall how my family could not accept that I didn't want to drink alcohol yet continuously tried to get me to drink. My mother was the same. I understand where she came from and how she suffered, but so did many others like her. They had the same experiences and didn't end up as she did, as I said my aunt and grandmother being ones.

My mother refused to accept things as they were and it led to a lot of conflict with teachers, restaurants, etc. Even my dad never challenged her when she clearly messed up and her apologies were never an admission of fault but just trying to remain on top or "it's not that bad and I did it out of love".

I'm actually glad she passed away and suffered as she did before it, you can call it karma for scarring not only me but my brother and sister too. She didn't have real love for us it was just attachment to this image she had in her mind of things. Now I can begin to repair the damage she has done.

Actions have consequences and if you keep trying to force your kids into fitting your image of them don't be surprised if they want nothing to do with you when they grow up.
Last edited by Ardha on Sun Jun 12, 2022 2:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
muni
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Re: Is love an illusion?

Post by muni »

My mom couldn't understand my problems because she couldn't accept me for the person that I was.
You say it yourself, she could not. Then reacting by anger or sadness, that brings suffering. Here it is compassion what can cool down the inner fire into more release. As you know she was not able to help you grow up in the best way. If you can forgive your mom a little bit, it can help you find peace.

How we react in a situation; that we can learn to master. For a child there is often not much it can do. But as a grown up, you can protect yourself and take distance. When the person is not there anymore, do not harm yourself by digging in these thoughts too much. However if you feel need to talk, you should. Not sure a Buddhist forum can offer enough support.

Perhaps people trying to answer, is because they have a heart, wishing to help.
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Re: Is love an illusion?

Post by Miorita »

I just saw this movie,

[Mod note: The removed video seemed to be restricted, i.e. for adults only]

Loaded with stereotypes, the asnwers on the actress's part are brutal, harsh. I felt them constantly. They couldn't have found a more fierce individual than this Bates full of power slogans to portray a mother of six. That's what is puzzling to me: how could they use their own agenda and narative against themselves and attempt to portray a single mother trying to make a living on her own. This approach that an individual can do anything, like smash the mountains if given the opportunity, is the expression of a very pumped ego - "I want to be first, I can do everything with my looks that is I'm a woman and you cannot resist me because I'm such a strong one like death that only God is good enough for me a man ( :shrug: ), I'm the best and you be best because I tell you so."
It's just laughable.

But Ardha you're right. The woman had her moment of pleasure or not, and a child is being brought into the world, and as the movie shows s/he is trusted to whomever to end up getting a nail stuck in his back.

Much love to you, Ardha: :heart: :heart: :heart: !
It is offered to heal your hurts and because you had no one then to confide in.
Only you know how you survived the many trials of your family. You do according to your conscience! No one can force you how to think.

About the drinking problem:
Those who were asking that you drink, they did it as a means to make you similar to what they were. They wanted company. They would recognize you if you joined in their ways. It is called constraining, peer-pressure, family ties, etc. You could refuse and be labelled a stranger of the family. It could be sibling rivalry, parents' upbringing at fault. Not everything is rosy as they have discovered. But drinking is their habit, it's what's in their genes unable to deal with mundane life.

Compared to my parents, I hapen to be more of the recessive genes expression, and I have to work harder on myself than they have.
When I was sent back to native country, I had a depressive mood, I felt as if my life was taken away. I had to receive treatment and it implied no alcohol. But my mother was unconstrained and she had the visa and she enjoyed her usual glass of something which she still does.
I don't drink and drinks have become repulsive to me after I saw her enjoying drinks and then abandoning me for the US. That is where I am. That is where love has stopped. Plus the new neuronal ways on my brain perhaps.
Bristollad
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Re: Is love an illusion?

Post by Bristollad »

Ardha wrote: Sun Jun 12, 2022 2:44 am I'm actually glad she passed away and suffered as she did before it, you can call it karma for scarring not only me but my brother and sister too. She didn't have real love for us it was just attachment to this image she had in her mind of things. Now I can begin to repair the damage she has done.
Taking pleasure in another's suffering is just forging arrows that in the future will come back to hit you.

As for your conclusions about me - they are wide of the mark.
Ardha wrote: Sun Jun 12, 2022 2:44 am Actions have consequences and if you keep trying to force your kids into fitting your image of them don't be surprised if they want nothing to do with you when they grow up.
My daughter is grown up. She is who she wants to be and that's fine by me. She sometimes asks my opinion, and sometimes even follows my advice. Often it's the other way around - she's got a good head on her shoulders and knows stuff I don't.
The antidote—to be free from the suffering of samsara—you need to be free from delusion and karma; you need to be free from ignorance, the root of samsara. So you need to meditate on emptiness. That is what you need. Lama Zopa Rinpoche
Miorita
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Re: Is love an illusion?

Post by Miorita »

Bristollad wrote: Sun Jun 12, 2022 7:21 pm
Ardha wrote: Sun Jun 12, 2022 2:44 am I'm actually glad she passed away and suffered as she did before it, you can call it karma for scarring not only me but my brother and sister too. She didn't have real love for us it was just attachment to this image she had in her mind of things. Now I can begin to repair the damage she has done.
Taking pleasure in another's suffering is just forging arrows that in the future will come back to hit you.

As for your conclusions about me - they are wide of the mark.
Ardha wrote: Sun Jun 12, 2022 2:44 am Actions have consequences and if you keep trying to force your kids into fitting your image of them don't be surprised if they want nothing to do with you when they grow up.
My daughter is grown up. She is who she wants to be and that's fine by me. She sometimes asks my opinion, and sometimes even follows my advice. Often it's the other way around - she's got a good head on her shoulders and knows stuff I don't.
Good for you!

"Taking pleasure ..."
Have you personally known her? If not, it is slander what you do and passing judgements instead of listening to the person.
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MaitreyaBuddha
Posts: 53
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2022 5:31 pm

Re: Is love an illusion?

Post by MaitreyaBuddha »

Love is the quality of Dharmakaya that manifests as a delight in all experience, as far as I can tell. So not illusory at all, like phenomena as we usually see them. Hope that's a good answer. :smile:
MagnetSoulSP
Posts: 269
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2023 1:45 am

Re: Is love an illusion?

Post by MagnetSoulSP »

Bristollad wrote: Sun Jun 12, 2022 7:21 pm
Ardha wrote: Sun Jun 12, 2022 2:44 am I'm actually glad she passed away and suffered as she did before it, you can call it karma for scarring not only me but my brother and sister too. She didn't have real love for us it was just attachment to this image she had in her mind of things. Now I can begin to repair the damage she has done.
Taking pleasure in another's suffering is just forging arrows that in the future will come back to hit you.

As for your conclusions about me - they are wide of the mark.
Ardha wrote: Sun Jun 12, 2022 2:44 am Actions have consequences and if you keep trying to force your kids into fitting your image of them don't be surprised if they want nothing to do with you when they grow up.
My daughter is grown up. She is who she wants to be and that's fine by me. She sometimes asks my opinion, and sometimes even follows my advice. Often it's the other way around - she's got a good head on her shoulders and knows stuff I don't.
These won't come back to hit me, ever.

For the longest time my mom would threaten any back talk with kicking my out of the house and given that I can't support myself I was forced to bit my tongue all the time and never really say what I felt. Now I'm actually free to grow and develop myself and realize that the world around me isn't what she taught me. I really think you have a mistaken view of suffering and how it works. It doesn't always come back to bit you, in fact you can find several examples in the world where people have done worse and it doesn't come back to them.

But in my case she got the karma she was due, though I would never publicly admit it. Everyone around me who says she's kind and awesome clearly hasn't lived with her.

As someone mentioned you don't know my situation or what it was like to live with her so your comments are mistaken.
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