Chakravartin, Indian myth of a Flying Saucer King

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Aemilius
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Chakravartin, Indian myth of a Flying Saucer King

Post by Aemilius »

Vishuddhimagga, Path of Purification, page 377 :
"That consisting in travelling through the air, etc., in the case of Wheel-
turning Monarchs, etc., is called success of the meritorious, according as it is said:
“What is success of the meritorious? The Wheel-turning Monarch travels
through the air with his fourfold army, even with his grooms and shepherds." "

Encyclopedia of Buddhism:
"Chakravartin is a bahuvrīhi compound word, figuratively meaning "whose wheels are moving", in the sense of "whose chariot is rolling everywhere without obstruction". It can also be analysed as an instrumental bahuvrīhi: "through whom the wheel is moving". The equivalent Tibetan term (T. ’khor lo sgyur ba’i rgyal po) translates "monarch who controls by means of a wheel"."
https://encyclopediaofbuddhism.org/wiki/Chakravartin

Abhidharmakosha-bhashyam describes four kinds of Chakravartins. Most powerful of them is Suvarṇa-cakravartin; with a golden wheel. He rules over the four continents of a world system. Rival kings spontaneously surrender their lands when the Cakravartin's wheel enters their lands.
Last edited by Aemilius on Wed Apr 06, 2022 1:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)
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Konchog Thogme Jampa
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Re: Chakravartin, Indian myth of a Flying Saucer King

Post by Konchog Thogme Jampa »

We could do with one now
Toenail
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Re: Chakravartin, Indian myth of a Flying Saucer King

Post by Toenail »

Got to wait 400 years.
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Re: Chakravartin, Indian myth of a Flying Saucer King

Post by master of puppets »

Aemilius wrote: Wed Apr 06, 2022 1:06 pm Vishuddhimagga, Path of Purification, page 377 :
"That consisting in travelling through the air, etc., in the case of Wheel-
turning Monarchs, etc., is called success of the meritorious, according as it is said:
“What is success of the meritorious? The Wheel-turning Monarch travels
through the air with his fourfold army, even with his grooms and shepherds." "

Encyclopedia of Buddhism:
"Chakravartin is a bahuvrīhi compound word, figuratively meaning "whose wheels are moving", in the sense of "whose chariot is rolling everywhere without obstruction". It can also be analysed as an instrumental bahuvrīhi: "through whom the wheel is moving". The equivalent Tibetan term (T. ’khor lo sgyur ba’i rgyal po) translates "monarch who controls by means of a wheel"."
https://encyclopediaofbuddhism.org/wiki/Chakravartin

Abhidharmakosha-bhashyam describes four kinds of Chakravartins. Most powerful of them is Suvarṇa-cakravartin; with a golden wheel. He rules over the four continents of a world system. Rival kings spontaneously surrender their lands when the Cakravartin's wheel enters their lands.

🙏
Kai lord
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Re: Chakravartin, Indian myth of a Flying Saucer King

Post by Kai lord »

Konchog Thogme Jampa wrote: Wed Apr 06, 2022 1:09 pm We could do with one now
Unfortunately we can't , golden wheel chakravartin only appeared when humans lived for much much longer...
Academically speaking, the last recorded chakravartin is the iron wheel type called Asoka if you disregarded other historical possibilities.
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Konchog Thogme Jampa
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Re: Chakravartin, Indian myth of a Flying Saucer King

Post by Konchog Thogme Jampa »

Kai lord wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 4:09 am
Konchog Thogme Jampa wrote: Wed Apr 06, 2022 1:09 pm We could do with one now
Unfortunately we can't , golden wheel chakravartin only appeared when humans lived for much much longer...
Academically speaking, the last recorded chakravartin is the iron wheel type called Asoka if you disregarded other historical possibilities.
Too much degeneracy
Kai lord
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Re: Chakravartin, Indian myth of a Flying Saucer King

Post by Kai lord »

Konchog Thogme Jampa wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 12:44 am
Kai lord wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 4:09 am
Konchog Thogme Jampa wrote: Wed Apr 06, 2022 1:09 pm We could do with one now
Unfortunately we can't , golden wheel chakravartin only appeared when humans lived for much much longer...
Academically speaking, the last recorded chakravartin is the iron wheel type called Asoka if you disregarded other historical possibilities.
Too much degeneracy
Not to worry though according to the time wheel tantra, in the darkest hours, the 25th king of shambala, the next iron wheel chakravartin, will arrive with his army of enlightened warriors to cleanse the world and free everyone from their suffering by encouraging them to do the ten virtuous deeds.
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Re: Chakravartin, Indian myth of a Flying Saucer King

Post by Konchog Thogme Jampa »

That’ll be about time
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Re: Chakravartin, Indian myth of a Flying Saucer King

Post by Malcolm »

Kai lord wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 2:07 pm
Not to worry though according to the time wheel tantra, in the darkest hours, the 25th king of shambala, the next iron wheel chakravartin, will arrive with his army of enlightened warriors to cleanse the world and free everyone from their suffering by encouraging them to do the ten virtuous deeds.
Bad idea to interpret this literally.
Kai lord
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Re: Chakravartin, Indian myth of a Flying Saucer King

Post by Kai lord »

Malcolm wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 7:48 pm
Kai lord wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 2:07 pm
Not to worry though according to the time wheel tantra, in the darkest hours, the 25th king of shambala, the next iron wheel chakravartin, will arrive with his army of enlightened warriors to cleanse the world and free everyone from their suffering by encouraging them to do the ten virtuous deeds.
Bad idea to interpret this literally.
This is the lounge, not too much to ask for a bit of fun here, right? :stirthepot:
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Aemilius
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Re: Chakravartin, Indian myth of a Flying Saucer King

Post by Aemilius »

UN Secretary-General António Guterres is the present GoIdenwheel Chakravartin.


António Guterres (UN Secretary-General) on International Mother Earth Day 2022
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)
Kai lord
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Re: Chakravartin, Indian myth of a Flying Saucer King

Post by Kai lord »

The UN secretary General does not have the chakravartin's seven treasures like wish fulfilling gem, so :oops:
Giovanni
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Re: Chakravartin, Indian myth of a Flying Saucer King

Post by Giovanni »

Kai lord wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 8:41 pm
Malcolm wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 7:48 pm
Kai lord wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 2:07 pm
Not to worry though according to the time wheel tantra, in the darkest hours, the 25th king of shambala, the next iron wheel chakravartin, will arrive with his army of enlightened warriors to cleanse the world and free everyone from their suffering by encouraging them to do the ten virtuous deeds.
Bad idea to interpret this literally.
This is the lounge, not too much to ask for a bit of fun here, right? :stirthepot:
Perhaps not. But there are people who take this sort of thing as a serious ontological reality.
Kai lord
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Re: Chakravartin, Indian myth of a Flying Saucer King

Post by Kai lord »

Giovanni wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 10:39 am
Kai lord wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 8:41 pm
Malcolm wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 7:48 pm

Bad idea to interpret this literally.
This is the lounge, not too much to ask for a bit of fun here, right? :stirthepot:
Perhaps not. But there are people who take this sort of thing as a serious ontological reality.
Then those individuals must also accept the despairing ontological reality of not able to identify any monarchs in human history that matches the literal definition or requirements of a chakravartin, not even Asoka.
Life is like a game, either you win or lose!
Life is like a fight, either you live or die!
Life is like a show, either you laugh or cry!
Life is like a dream, either you know or not!!!
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Re: Chakravartin, Indian myth of a Flying Saucer King

Post by Giovanni »

Kai lord wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 12:49 pm
Giovanni wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 10:39 am
Kai lord wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 8:41 pm

This is the lounge, not too much to ask for a bit of fun here, right? :stirthepot:
Perhaps not. But there are people who take this sort of thing as a serious ontological reality.
Then those individuals must also accept the despairing ontological reality of not able to identify any monarchs in human history that matches the literal definition or requirements of a chakravartin, not even Asoka.
You would think it so wouldn’t you? But some of those who accept the literal reality of aliens ( and they might be right) tend to attribute magical powers or siddhis to them. The fact that they might be mundane beings who have better technology but who are still subject to Dukkha, Annica and Anatta seems not to be part of their reasoning. I think they conflate possible sentient beings who have evolved in other galaxies with the beings described in the Buddhist cosmological mythos..
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Re: Chakravartin, Indian myth of a Flying Saucer King

Post by Kai lord »

Giovanni wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 1:08 pm
Kai lord wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 12:49 pm
Giovanni wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 10:39 am
Perhaps not. But there are people who take this sort of thing as a serious ontological reality.
Then those individuals must also accept the despairing ontological reality of not able to identify any monarchs in human history that matches the literal definition or requirements of a chakravartin, not even Asoka.
You would think it so wouldn’t you? But some of those who accept the literal reality of aliens ( and they might be right) tend to attribute magical powers or siddhis to them. The fact that they might be mundane beings who have better technology but who are still subject to Dukkha, Annica and Anatta seems not to be part of their reasoning. I think they conflate possible sentient beings who have evolved in other galaxies with the beings described in the Buddhist cosmological mythos..
Its actually quite reasonable for anyone to picture devas as sophisticated aliens traveling from higher Kardashev civilization than ours, more reasonable and scientific for them than say... fantasizing about gods descending from some hidden higher dimensional planes within Earth's atmosphere. Marvel does a great job at helping 21th century humans to deal with the picturing deities of past and putting their "siddhis" in modern context.

And its rather fun to equate and compare Buddhist cosmology and its evolution with modern equivalences in astrophysics if one can view its flat earth version of a single world system and other similar stuffs as metaphoric than literal.
Life is like a game, either you win or lose!
Life is like a fight, either you live or die!
Life is like a show, either you laugh or cry!
Life is like a dream, either you know or not!!!
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Re: Chakravartin, Indian myth of a Flying Saucer King

Post by Giovanni »

If.
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Re: Chakravartin, Indian myth of a Flying Saucer King

Post by Caoimhghín »

Travelling to earth through deep space, in a physical craft, i.e. a "flying saucer," is completely fantastical, so they might as well be from parallel dimensions or even the airs of the sky somehow.

It's a very "human" thing, IMO, to suggest that they would need a "spacecraft" at all if they were truly so advanced. Humans travel in various crafts on this earth. I think that a belief in "flying saucers" is likely an example of naïve "as above, so below" thinking.
Then, the monks uttered this gāthā:

These bodies are like foam.
Them being frail, who can rejoice in them?
The Buddha attained the vajra-body.
Still, it becomes inconstant and ruined.
The many Buddhas are vajra-entities.
All are also subject to inconstancy.
Quickly ended, like melting snow --
how could things be different?

The Buddha passed into parinirvāṇa afterward.
(T1.27b10 Mahāparinirvāṇasūtra DĀ 2)
Kai lord
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Re: Chakravartin, Indian myth of a Flying Saucer King

Post by Kai lord »

If they can build those spaceship of that magnitude that could travel near light speed through multiple star systems, it would imply that their bodies must contain durability far greater than humans and any animals on earth, to be able to endure the physical trauma for such a journey and they must be biologically evolved or enhanced to have a lifespan of thousands of years in order for them to be willingly undertaking such a horrendous journey with little rewards.

And individually, they are likely to generate average power and energy that dwarfs a normal human athlete.

In other words, deva....like creatures.
Life is like a game, either you win or lose!
Life is like a fight, either you live or die!
Life is like a show, either you laugh or cry!
Life is like a dream, either you know or not!!!
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Re: Chakravartin, Indian myth of a Flying Saucer King

Post by Caoimhghín »

I'm looking at it this way:

Physical objects cannot actually travel at light-speed, at faster-than-light-speed, or even substantially near light-speed. Objects become energy. Matter dematerializes.

If they can re-materialize a spaceship, they might as well just re-materialize their bodies, which they would have to do anyways.
Then, the monks uttered this gāthā:

These bodies are like foam.
Them being frail, who can rejoice in them?
The Buddha attained the vajra-body.
Still, it becomes inconstant and ruined.
The many Buddhas are vajra-entities.
All are also subject to inconstancy.
Quickly ended, like melting snow --
how could things be different?

The Buddha passed into parinirvāṇa afterward.
(T1.27b10 Mahāparinirvāṇasūtra DĀ 2)
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