The Future of American Buddhism

[clyde]

Dr. Alan Wallace’s view:

[Daniel Arraes]

In a lot of ways there's a lot more freedom in Brazil.

Lawlessness, or weak law enforcement is often equated with “freedom.” Mexico is also more “free.” But these are countries where men rule, rather than laws.

I'm Brazilian born and raised and, no matter how painful it is for me to admit, I have agree with Malcolm. Brazil is a huge mess right now.

[Natan]

In a lot of ways there's a lot more freedom in Brazil.

Lawlessness, or weak law enforcement is often equated with “freedom.” Mexico is also more “free.” But these are countries where men rule, rather than laws.

I'm Brazilian born and raised and, no matter how painful it is for me to admit, I have agree with Malcolm. Brazil is a huge mess right now.

Everybody in Brazil says that and imagines the USA is a paradise. Brazil is not as bad as you think. The US is not nearly as awesome as you think.

[Malcolm]

Lawlessness, or weak law enforcement is often equated with “freedom.” Mexico is also more “free.” But these are countries where men rule, rather than laws.

I'm Brazilian born and raised and, no matter how painful it is for me to admit, I have agree with Malcolm. Brazil is a huge mess right now.

Everybody in Brazil says that and imagines the USA is a paradise. Brazil is not as bad as you think. The US is not nearly as awesome as you think.

The US is not a paradise. No democracy is. But the level of lawfulness and trust in the US is quite high, and is one of the main reasons why our markets and businesses flourish better than countries in which there are flawed democracies and autocracies. To put it in a nutshell, there is much less corruption in the EU, the US, Canada, etc., than in other countries. Why? Because these are countries of laws and not men.

[Daniel Arraes]

Lawlessness, or weak law enforcement is often equated with “freedom.” Mexico is also more “free.” But these are countries where men rule, rather than laws.

I'm Brazilian born and raised and, no matter how painful it is for me to admit, I have agree with Malcolm. Brazil is a huge mess right now.

Everybody in Brazil says that and imagines the USA is a paradise. Brazil is not as bad as you think. The US is not nearly as awesome as you think.

Yes, I understand that pretty well, no place in Samsara is perfect (most of it just sucks). I have visited the U.S. once back in 2009, and I have relatives living in Atlanta, GA. So I get the point that the U.S. or Western European countries have their pros and cons just like any other country. However, the fact is that the rule of law is more efficient in more mature and older liberal democracies, where democratic institutions are more capable of making citizens actually enjoy theirs constitutional freedoms. Sexism, racism and LGBTQ segregation are much harder to navigate through in Latin America. In such conditions, it is only obvious for the careful observer that it is harder for the Buddhadharma to grow solid roots.

Case in point, I would just to love to be able to walk through the streets of my hometown without feeling that I have a target on my back, always having to watch my back for robers or corrupt cops. The kind of freedom that people living in Tokyo or Toronto can enjoy, not being constantly neurotic about urban violence.

[Daniel Arraes]

I'm Brazilian born and raised and, no matter how painful it is for me to admit, I have agree with Malcolm. Brazil is a huge mess right now.

Everybody in Brazil says that and imagines the USA is a paradise. Brazil is not as bad as you think. The US is not nearly as awesome as you think.

The US is not a paradise. No democracy is. But the level of lawfulness and trust in the US is quite high, and is one of the main reasons why our markets and businesses flourish better than countries in which there are flawed democracies and autocracies. To put it in a nutshell, there is much less corruption in the EU, the US, Canada, etc., than in other countries. Why? Because these are countries of laws and not men.

Unfortunately my countrymen are learning that the hard way. It will take 20 years to rebuild our economy... if we are lucky enough to get rid of those alt-right white supremacist jerks who follow "Tropical Trump".

[Queequeg]

Unfortunately my countrymen are learning that the hard way. It will take 20 years to rebuild our economy... if we are lucky enough to get rid of those alt-right white supremacist jerks who follow "Tropical Trump".

It takes a long time for people with power to come around and fear the power they wield. The Enlightenment out of which the ideas underlying the establishment of the United States emerged were forged over centuries under the despotic rule of kings. Those people had visceral living memories of arbitrary rulers where life and property could be taken at whim of select individuals and developed a philosophical framework, alongside an ancient form of the Rule of Law, the Common Law (arguably a vestige of rule from a time that was more egalitarian and organic, before the development of despotic monarchies), that was and continues to be a living tradition in the Anglophile world. A class that wields real power must come to fear the power they wield and agree to a system where power can be checked.

Based on my study of history, human beings will tolerate a lot of injustice and cruelty as long as they are personally comfortable, and people are willing to compromise their expectations of comfort to a pathetic degree to avoid conflict. Rarely do you see people stick their necks out for others. And so, psychopaths and other assorted people with deformed characters take advantage to seize for themselves when there are no systems of checks or people become so apathetic that they don't bother using systems of checks that have been established.

Good luck. We're trying to hold it together here ourselves.

[Malcolm]

Unfortunately my countrymen are learning that the hard way. It will take 20 years to rebuild our economy... if we are lucky enough to get rid of those alt-right white supremacist jerks who follow "Tropical Trump".

It takes a long time for people with power to come around and fear the power they wield. The Enlightenment out of which the ideas underlying the establishment of the United States emerged were forged over centuries under the despotic rule of kings. Those people had visceral living memories of arbitrary rulers where life and property could be taken at whim of select individuals and developed a philosophical framework, alongside an ancient form of the Rule of Law, the Common Law (arguably a vestige of rule from a time that was more egalitarian and organic, before the development of despotic monarchies), that was and continues to be a living tradition in the Anglophile world. A class that wields real power must come to fear the power they wield and agree to a system where power can be checked.

Based on my study of history, human beings will tolerate a lot of injustice and cruelty as long as they are personally comfortable, and people are willing to compromise their expectations of comfort to a pathetic degree to avoid conflict. Rarely do you see people stick their necks out for others. And so, psychopaths and other assorted people with deformed characters take advantage to seize for themselves when there are no systems of checks or people become so apathetic that they don't bother using systems of checks that have been established.

Good luck. We're trying to hold it together here ourselves.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2022/04 ... ggest-bets

[Natan]

I'm Brazilian born and raised and, no matter how painful it is for me to admit, I have agree with Malcolm. Brazil is a huge mess right now.

Everybody in Brazil says that and imagines the USA is a paradise. Brazil is not as bad as you think. The US is not nearly as awesome as you think.

The US is not a paradise. No democracy is. But the level of lawfulness and trust in the US is quite high, and is one of the main reasons why our markets and businesses flourish better than countries in which there are flawed democracies and autocracies. To put it in a nutshell, there is much less corruption in the EU, the US, Canada, etc., than in other countries. Why? Because these are countries of laws and not men.

Endless myopathy. You're just spouting axioms like they have actual force in the world Canada and Europe are some of the racist places there are. Have you ever been refused service because of the color of your skin? Never happens in Brazil. Happened to me in the US. Happened in Canada. In Brazil you can call the police for this and action will be taken.

[Natan]

I'm Brazilian born and raised and, no matter how painful it is for me to admit, I have agree with Malcolm. Brazil is a huge mess right now.

Everybody in Brazil says that and imagines the USA is a paradise. Brazil is not as bad as you think. The US is not nearly as awesome as you think.

Yes, I understand that pretty well, no place in Samsara is perfect (most of it just sucks). I have visited the U.S. once back in 2009, and I have relatives living in Atlanta, GA. So I get the point that the U.S. or Western European countries have their pros and cons just like any other country. However, the fact is that the rule of law is more efficient in more mature and older liberal democracies, where democratic institutions are more capable of making citizens actually enjoy theirs constitutional freedoms. Sexism, racism and LGBTQ segregation are much harder to navigate through in Latin America. In such conditions, it is only obvious for the careful observer that it is harder for the Buddhadharma to grow solid roots.

Case in point, I would just to love to be able to walk through the streets of my hometown without feeling that I have a target on my back, always having to watch my back for robers or corrupt cops. The kind of freedom that people living in Tokyo or Toronto can enjoy, not being constantly neurotic about urban violence.

You do not have this in the USA. The police and the public contain insane racists. This enjoyment of constitutional freedom is enjoyed by blonde haired blue-eyes whites like Malcolm. Minorities have targets on their backs. Blacks in the US have actual panic attacks when the police are close. Racism in the US is far more violent and pronounced than in Brazil. Many Brazilians I've spoken with who visited the US South told about shock at the direct in your face hatred so easily expressed publicly in the states. Malcolm is an old white man living in white bubble. He had no idea how screwed up the US is. Country of laws my ass. The US is a country by and for white Christian men. Every one else better beware.

In Brazil there is far more discretionary enforcement of laws. That does not make it lawless. Malcom says this as if he knows something. He's relaying on rumors. The US judicial system is capitalistic. Everyone is looking to score. Prosecutors and police are promoted based on number of convictions. Is there a law that says they can do that? No. There is isn't, but it's the reason that the US has the largest prison population per Capita in the history of man. All over crowded. Why? They are incentivized to lie. Corruption in law enforcement in the USA is epic. Judges are selected from prosecutors and they keep the faith. The legal system is constitutional in name only.

There is no such thing as a country of laws and not men. That's a complete delusion. Whatever occurs is because of mob demands and the strategies of people. In Brazil local enforcement is not designed to manufacture convictions. Priority is given to actually serious crimes. I have been in situations here and observed the behavior of police. In the US they arrest and charge and sort out later if they can score a win. In Brazil they actually try to see if there's a risk of harm to someone.

What is harming Brazil is the drain of public funds into the pockets of a few politicians. This is also happening in the US. The difference is the quantity of funds. This causes near term economic harm in Brazil. In the US they just print more money with the global reserve currency. Those chickens are coming home to roost. We are already seeing global inflation as a result of this lawlessness. Monetary policy in the US is governed by men not ruled, who in the Fed have a loose mandate to lower unemployment and keep inflation around 2%. But if they fail the only counter is politics. So no one can sue the Fed for making stupid policies..

The constitution of the US is like a religion that believers espouse at the Supreme Court level until it does serve their team. The erosion of the 4th Amendment that began with Nixon and accelerated during Reagan decimated two generations of minorities. If you read the opinions it's very easy to understand interpretations were arbitrary and racist, all the dissents said exactly that.

The situation now is even graver. The fantasy of the US is over. There will be 50 years of total bullshit coming out of the Supreme Court. Unless you're a in a conservative Christian community, don't expect anything to go well.

[Malcolm]

You do not have this in the USA. The police and the public contain insane racists. This enjoyment of constitutional freedom is enjoyed by blonde haired blue-eyes whites like Malcolm. Minorities have targets on their backs. Blacks in the US have actual panic attacks when the police are close. Racism in the US is far more violent and pronounced than in Brazil.

That depends on where you are and who you are. But sure, black people in the US suffer from systemic racism, doubt. But that is a cultural issue in the US, not a problem with our systems of laws per se.

In Brazil there is far more discretionary enforcement of laws. That does not make it lawless. Malcom says this as if he knows something. He's relaying on rumors.

I did not use Brazil as an example. I've never been to Brazil. But I have been to Mexico, several times, all over the country, and have friends in high places there. Daniel was the one who used Brazil as an example.

The US judicial system is capitalistic. Everyone is looking to score. Prosecutors and police are promoted based on number of convictions. Is there a law that says they can do that? No. There is isn't, but it's the reason that the US has the largest prison population per Capita in the history of man.

I agree that the privatization of prisons combined with unfair drug laws are a social justice issue in the United States which needs to be addressed. However, compared to prisons in other countries...

All over crowded. Why? They are incentivized to lie. Corruption in law enforcement in the USA is epic. Judges are selected from prosecutors and they keep the faith. The legal system is constitutional in name only.

That's simply not the case. You can try to argue this, based on your experience as a defense attorney in the US, but my late father was also a defense attorney, with whom I discussed many cases.

There is no such thing as a country of laws and not men.

Sure there is, you're just cynical.

In the US they just print more money with the global reserve currency. Those chickens are coming home to roost. We are already seeing global inflation as a result of this lawlessness. Monetary policy in the US is governed by men not ruled, who in the Fed have a loose mandate to lower unemployment and keep inflation around 2%. But if they fail the only counter is politics. So no one can sue the Fed for making stupid policies..

The current levels of Inflation are worldwide and have nothing to do with US monetary policy. Its cause is pandemic supply chain disruption and energy panic due to the war in Ukraine and the burgeoning process isolating Russia economically.

Also, the idea that the dollar's days as a reserve currency are limited has been forecast for years. Someday maybe it will happen, but that would require another country's economy to match ours in size. Even the euro is not as flexible as the dollar, because the EU does not have the same flexibility as the US. The main issue is convertability. The dollar is still the most convertible financial instrument in the world, especially the Benjamin.

The constitution of the US is like a religion that believers espouse at the Supreme Court level until it does serve their team. The erosion of the 4th Amendment that began with Nixon and accelerated during Reagan decimated two generations of minorities.

Historically inaccurate. The problem with the fourth amendment was that it was written to forestall search and seizure by conscription and press gangs, not police. Police did not exist in this country when the 4th amendment was written. But you know, the Constitution is not a perfect document, and it requires updating.

If you read the opinions it's very easy to understand interpretations were arbitrary and racist, all the dissents said exactly that.

"Originalism" in constitutional law is problematical. But the point is "a more perfect union." Democracy in the United States, and other place is not perfect. But what you describe are principally cultural problems and biases, not inherent flaws in the US system itself.

The situation now is even graver. The fantasy of the US is over. There will be 50 years of total bullshit coming out of the Supreme Court. Unless you're a in a conservative Christian community, don't expect anything to go well.

Maybe, we will see, maybe Thomas and Alito will drop dead of heart attacks this summer. Hope so.

[Malcolm]

Endless myopathy. You're just spouting axioms like they have actual force in the world Canada and Europe are some of the racist places there are. Have you ever been refused service because of the color of your skin? Never happens in Brazil. Happened to me in the US. Happened in Canada. In Brazil you can call the police for this and action will be taken.

I've experienced racism in China, India, etc. It's not fun. Frankly, China is much more openly racist than the US. Tibetans can be pretty racist too. I have run into racist Tibetans in Nepal, etc.

[Schrödinger’s Yidam]

I've experienced racism in China, India, etc. It's not fun. Frankly, China is much more openly racist than the US. Tibetans can be pretty racist too. I have run into racist Tibetans in Nepal, etc.

One friend of mine commented on how in America Tibetan Buddhism is one of the only venues where white people are routinely treated like second class citizens.

So depending on what your definition of “racism” is, yeah.

[Malcolm]

I've experienced racism in China, India, etc. It's not fun. Frankly, China is much more openly racist than the US. Tibetans can be pretty racist too. I have run into racist Tibetans in Nepal, etc.

One friend of mine commented on how in America Tibetan Buddhism is one of the only venues where white people are routinely treated like second class citizens.

So depending on what your definition of “racism” is, yeah.

Sure. Anyway, Tibetans do not own Buddhism.

[Daniel Arraes]

Never happens in Brazil.[...] In Brazil you can call the police for this and action will be taken.

Sorry, but this information is not accurate. My wife is black woman and when she's not with me by her side, security personnel at supermarkets and malls keep following her, assuming she's a shop lifter or something -- if that isn't pure racism, I don't know what is. But when she's with me, a pasty white looking dude, nobody bothers to look at us (except when when we're hanging around a touristy area. Then, people assume I'm some Western European tourist visiting Brazil for "romantic" purposes, if you know what I mean.)

In situations when the police is actually called, it is because the black person being the target of racism is well educated, which sadly corresponds to small percentage of that demography here in Brazil (and Latin America at large). More often than not, nothing concrete happens besides law enforcement pushing papers ad infinitum.

As a matter of fact, I have read the account of several African Americans who have lived here in Brazil for some period of time complaining that racism down here is harder for them deal with, because it is fairly more covert and 'under the radar' than it is in the U.S.. It is a different animal altogether.

Just my two cents.

[Natan]

You do not have this in the USA. The police and the public contain insane racists. This enjoyment of constitutional freedom is enjoyed by blonde haired blue-eyes whites like Malcolm. Minorities have targets on their backs. Blacks in the US have actual panic attacks when the police are close. Racism in the US is far more violent and pronounced than in Brazil.

That depends on where you are and who you are. But sure, black people in the US suffer from systemic racism, doubt. But that is a cultural issue in the US, not a problem with our systems of laws per se.

In Brazil there is far more discretionary enforcement of laws. That does not make it lawless. Malcom says this as if he knows something. He's relaying on rumors.

I did not use Brazil as an example. I've never been to Brazil. But I have been to Mexico, several times, all over the country, and have friends in high places there. Daniel was the one who used Brazil as an example.

The US judicial system is capitalistic. Everyone is looking to score. Prosecutors and police are promoted based on number of convictions. Is there a law that says they can do that? No. There is isn't, but it's the reason that the US has the largest prison population per Capita in the history of man.

I agree that the privatizations of prisoners combined with unfair drug laws are a social justice issue in the United States which needs to be addressed. However, compared to prisons in other countries...

All over crowded. Why? They are incentivized to lie. Corruption in law enforcement in the USA is epic. Judges are selected from prosecutors and they keep the faith. The legal system is constitutional in name only.

That's simply not the case. You can try to argue this, based on your experience as a defense attorney in the US, but my late father was also a defense attorney, with whom I discussed many cases.

There is no such thing as a country of laws and not men.

Sure there is, you're just cynical.

In the US they just print more money with the global reserve currency. Those chickens are coming home to roost. We are already seeing global inflation as a result of this lawlessness. Monetary policy in the US is governed by men not ruled, who in the Fed have a loose mandate to lower unemployment and keep inflation around 2%. But if they fail the only counter is politics. So no one can sue the Fed for making stupid policies..

The current levels of Inflation are worldwide and have nothing to do with US monetary policy. Its cause is pandemic supply chain disruption and energy panic due to the war in Ukraine and the burgeoning process isolating Russia economically.

Also, the idea that the dollar's days as a reserve currency are limited has been forecast for years. Someday maybe it will happen, but that would require another country's economy to match ours in size. Even the euro is not as flexible as the dollar, because the EU does not have the same flexibility as the US. The main issue is convertability. The dollar is still the most convertible financial instrument in the world, especially the Benjamin.

The constitution of the US is like a religion that believers espouse at the Supreme Court level until it does serve their team. The erosion of the 4th Amendment that began with Nixon and accelerated during Reagan decimated two generations of minorities.

Historically inaccurate. The problem with the fourth amendment was that it was written to forestall search and seizure by conscription and press gangs, not police. Police did not exist in this country when the 4th amendment was written. But you know, the Constitution is not a perfect document, and it requires updating.

If you read the opinions it's very easy to understand interpretations were arbitrary and racist, all the dissents said exactly that.

"Originalism" in constitutional law is problematical. But the point is "a more perfect union." Democracy in the United States, and other place is not perfect. But what you describe are principally cultural problems and biases, not inherent flaws in the US system itself.

The situation now is even graver. The fantasy of the US is over. There will be 50 years of total bullshit coming out of the Supreme Court. Unless you're a in a conservative Christian community, don't expect anything to go well.

Maybe, we will see, maybe Thomas and Alito will drop dead of heart attacks this summer. Hope so.

Well Mr. Friends in High Places... Sounds like a Title to a Spaghetti
Western. The Man with Friends in High Places. Progressivism is written on Brazil's flag. There are believers in this system as well. I would argue that your demotion of cultural issues in favor of systems is backwards. What drives what? The system does not drive itself. People from cultures do. For example, as I've mentioned, there is social pressure to be inclusive of others. I've never been anywhere in Brazil where someone took one look at me and said, get the frak away from me. This is central.

I'm not wrong about the 4th Amendment. Due respect to your late father, but the erosion of the 4th Amend was designed to allow police to arbitrarily stop and search people of color the street. It was all about cat and mouse, has nothing to do with the press.

The issue about inflation happened when Obama turned on the spigot in '09 and they have yet to turn it off. The crises of late are just the trigger that turn hope into fear.

You didn't from your father about the overcrowding problem in prisons? Must be nice to be from Massachusetts. California was in a situation of continual prison building due to its enforcement policy. And those prisons were being built all over the US. I am cynical. For good reason. I am under no illusions about whether the US is run by laws.

Prison conditions is a different issue than prison overpopulation. There are prison building corporations in the US that house prison guards. They sell state of the art designs.

For a more perfect union I'd rather be somewhere one side doesn't hate and want the extinction of the other. In Brazil, from Manaus to Paraná there is interest in the lives and lands of others. There's pride in the richness of the land. I've never heard anyone say those people over there are garbage. If you want a more perfect union probably the US with it's Religious tyranny isn't going to fulfill the promise. Waiting for liberal to grow balls? I won't.

[Natan]

Never happens in Brazil.[...] In Brazil you can call the police for this and action will be taken.

Sorry, but this information is not accurate. My wife is black woman and when she's not with me by her side, security personnel at supermarkets and malls keep following her, assuming she's a shop lifter or something -- if that isn't pure racism, I don't know what is. But when she's with me, a pasty white looking dude, nobody bothers to look at us (except when when we're hanging around a touristy area. Then, people assume I'm some Western European tourist visiting Brazil for "romantic" purposes, if you know what I mean.)

In situations when the police is actually called, it is because the black person being the target of racism is well educated, which sadly corresponds to small percentage of that demography here in Brazil (and Latin America at large). More often than not, nothing concrete happens besides law enforcement pushing papers ad infinitum.

As a matter of fact, I have read the account of several African Americans who have lived here in Brazil for some period of time complaining that racism down here is harder for them deal with, because it is fairly more covert and 'under the radar' than it is in the U.S.. It is a different animal altogether.

Just my two cents.

I'm sure there is some of that. I don't doubt it. I've also experience foreigner prejudice here a lot. But what you are describing is a far cry from being chased up a hill and being shot at. Or being dragged across gravel and pissed on. I'll take under the radar any day. Tá vindo meu brother?

[Daniel Arraes]

I did not use Brazil as an example. I've never been to Brazil. But I have been to Mexico, several times, all over the country, and have friends in high places there. Daniel was the one who used Brazil as an example.

Potaytoes, potahtoes.

[Natan]

I did not use Brazil as an example. I've never been to Brazil. But I have been to Mexico, several times, all over the country, and have friends in high places there. Daniel was the one who used Brazil as an example.

Potaytoes, potahtoes.

Daniel you really understand English sayings. That's because you are educated. You are an elite Brazilian, your hot wife is just the good life you have. Americans will envy you. I'm sure of it. Why? Sexual life in the USA is hell. It's not racial. It's monetary and cultural. I don't know anyone from the US or Europe that doesn't think Brazil is a refuge from the dogshit of there own place. But I've only been here three years. I've only lived in three states. We will see. Have you lived in or even been to a favela? Because I lived in more than one favela for more than a year. Let's talk about it.

[Johnny Dangerous]

Don’t wanna move to Mexico, but I have to say that sometimes hanging out with Mexicans was a lot less exasperating than hanging out with Americans. Our predominant culture really is f’d up here.

The thing is, that’s just the predominant culture though, there are all kinds of people here if you look.