Someone go tell DJKR

Casual conversation between friends. Anything goes (almost).
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: Someone go tell DJKR

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

PeterC wrote: Thu Aug 04, 2022 4:49 am the only think he posted that was an intelligent, well-thought-through position was when he said that the last Bond film wasn't very good.
My first thought was, “does he think that any
British-made film is good?
But then I remembered, he is an excellent film director himself.
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PeterC
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Re: Someone go tell DJKR

Post by PeterC »

PadmaVonSamba wrote: Thu Aug 04, 2022 5:13 am But then I remembered, he is an excellent film director himself.
Well...he's interesting, but he's not Christopher Nolan.
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Caoimhghín
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Re: Someone go tell DJKR

Post by Caoimhghín »

Archie2009 wrote: Wed Aug 03, 2022 10:42 amenough musicians, conductors, ... willingly cooperated to gain or maintain standing.
Richard Strauss. Very talented. Very foolish.
PeterC wrote: Wed Aug 03, 2022 3:01 pm
Archie2009 wrote: Wed Aug 03, 2022 11:33 am I have no opinion of DJKR outside of his writings, mostly on social media.
The first thing I read of his was his book (really a compilation of an oral teaching series) on the Uttaratantrashastra, which was excellent, and very helpful when I was studying it. So I’ve never questioned his abilities as a Dharma teacher. I wish he would stick to that.
His talk on the Lotus Sūtra was a hot mess. At one point, he got out his phone and started reading from the Wikipedia article on it. I legitimately wonder to this day if he's ever read it.
Then, the monks uttered this gāthā:

These bodies are like foam.
Them being frail, who can rejoice in them?
The Buddha attained the vajra-body.
Still, it becomes inconstant and ruined.
The many Buddhas are vajra-entities.
All are also subject to inconstancy.
Quickly ended, like melting snow --
how could things be different?

The Buddha passed into parinirvāṇa afterward.
(T1.27b10 Mahāparinirvāṇasūtra DĀ 2)
KristenM
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Re: Someone go tell DJKR

Post by KristenM »

I saw that DJKR actually responded to Malcom’s comments on one of his posts. Lol. When game recognizes game. :mrgreen:

J/k Malcolm actually knows more about history and politics, not just Youtube links.
PeterC
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Re: Someone go tell DJKR

Post by PeterC »

Caoimhghín wrote: Thu Aug 04, 2022 11:05 pm His talk on the Lotus Sūtra was a hot mess. At one point, he got out his phone and started reading from the Wikipedia article on it. I legitimately wonder to this day if he's ever read it.
Not sure why one would ask a Tibetan lama for an exegesis on that particular sutra.

I heard him talk on the Heart sutra once. It was disappointingly superficial. I put that down to him coming down to the audience's level, since I'm sure he would have studied that sutra properly.
Giovanni
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Re: Someone go tell DJKR

Post by Giovanni »

While a reappraisal is ongoing…
A fairly well known Vajrayana teacher who I count as a friend went to one of the public talks.
He was astonished by DJKR’s theatricality and lack of depth..
He said, “ well he has his followers and I think they get from him what they can use”.
PeterC
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Re: Someone go tell DJKR

Post by PeterC »

Giovanni wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 7:22 am He said, “ well he has his followers and I think they get from him what they can use”.
As insults go, that is a good one
Passing By
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Re: Someone go tell DJKR

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PeterC wrote: Wed Aug 03, 2022 3:57 am
KristenM wrote: Wed Aug 03, 2022 3:31 am DJKR’s latest FB post arguing the US is provoking China by Nancy Pelosi visiting Taiwan is ahem, interesting, I guess.
He needs to stick to topics he actually knows something about, rather than trying to comment on relatively complex geopolitics that he simply doesn't understand.
Complex or not, let's not kid ourselves that any of these so called "leaders" and warmongers on any side give two f***s about you, me, or any of the lives they wreck in all nations involved as well as the generational hatreds they entrench once the shooting starts.

I say it as someone living right on the frontlines of where this will go off if shit hits the fan. The artificial hostility the media stokes, the numbing of peoples' humanity.....absolute poison. The way they try to tear relationships between people on opposing sides apart....The worst kind of poison indeed
Last edited by Passing By on Sat Aug 06, 2022 2:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
PeterC
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Re: Someone go tell DJKR

Post by PeterC »

Passing By wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 2:51 pm
PeterC wrote: Wed Aug 03, 2022 3:57 am
KristenM wrote: Wed Aug 03, 2022 3:31 am DJKR’s latest FB post arguing the US is provoking China by Nancy Pelosi visiting Taiwan is ahem, interesting, I guess.
He needs to stick to topics he actually knows something about, rather than trying to comment on relatively complex geopolitics that he simply doesn't understand.
Complex or not, let's not kid ourselves that any of these so called "leaders" and warmongers on any side give two f***s about you, me, or any of the lives they wreck in all nations involved as well as the generational hatreds they entrench once the shooting starts.
An easy thing to say. But what guidance does it give us?
Passing By
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Re: Someone go tell DJKR

Post by Passing By »

PeterC wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 2:55 pm
Passing By wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 2:51 pm
PeterC wrote: Wed Aug 03, 2022 3:57 am

He needs to stick to topics he actually knows something about, rather than trying to comment on relatively complex geopolitics that he simply doesn't understand.
Complex or not, let's not kid ourselves that any of these so called "leaders" and warmongers on any side give two f***s about you, me, or any of the lives they wreck in all nations involved as well as the generational hatreds they entrench once the shooting starts.
An easy thing to say. But what guidance does it give us?

That one can understand where DJKR is coming from with this. Sure his history and presentation might be subpar but one can at least understand his intent.

He, at least I think....is trying to get his followers (students?) not to blindly lap up whatever any media feeds them and join the "slay the evil nation/group of people and the world will be magically alright" bandwagon. Are his examples and communication bad? Well yeah....but the intention is one that is sorely needed these days
PeterC
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Re: Someone go tell DJKR

Post by PeterC »

Passing By wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 2:58 pm
PeterC wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 2:55 pm
Passing By wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 2:51 pm

Complex or not, let's not kid ourselves that any of these so called "leaders" and warmongers on any side give two f***s about you, me, or any of the lives they wreck in all nations involved as well as the generational hatreds they entrench once the shooting starts.
An easy thing to say. But what guidance does it give us?

That one can understand where DJKR is coming from with this. Sure his history and presentation might be subpar but one can at least understand his intent.

He, at least I think....is trying to get his followers (students?) not to blindly lap up whatever any media feeds them and join the "slay the evil nation/group of people and the world will be magically alright" bandwagon. Are his examples and communication bad? Well yeah....but the intention is one that is sorely needed these days
There’s a simpler explanation, that he has a huge chip on his shoulder about “the west”, and all this posturing is him just pushing that on his overly credulous sycophants.
Malcolm
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Re: Someone go tell DJKR

Post by Malcolm »

Passing By wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 2:58 pm
PeterC wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 2:55 pm
Passing By wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 2:51 pm

Complex or not, let's not kid ourselves that any of these so called "leaders" and warmongers on any side give two f***s about you, me, or any of the lives they wreck in all nations involved as well as the generational hatreds they entrench once the shooting starts.
An easy thing to say. But what guidance does it give us?

That one can understand where DJKR is coming from with this. Sure his history and presentation might be subpar but one can at least understand his intent.

He, at least I think....is trying to get his followers (students?) not to blindly lap up whatever any media feeds them and join the "slay the evil nation/group of people and the world will be magically alright" bandwagon. Are his examples and communication bad? Well yeah....but the intention is one that is sorely needed these days
Despite its flaws, do you really want to live in a world where America steps back and lets the rest of the world go to hell? Just look at the chaos Trump unleashed with the brief period of isolationism he indulged in. In any case, American isolationism is bad for democracy internationally. This was acutely demonstrable during the Hoover Administration, and later, during the Trump administration.

Democracy, the nonviolent transfer of power, is an extraordinarily delicate form of government. This is why liberal democracies formed alliances with each other in the early twentieth century, surviving both fascism and communism. These alliances need to continue to foster liberal democracy, as Ukraine so clearly shows. It's a matter of our survival. Recall that the first impeachment was over Trump's attempt to undermine Ukrainian democracy by blackmailing them with weapons in order to try and get dirt on Biden.

Dzongsar fails to understand this as he spends all his time listening to old fools like Chomsky (so far left his positions are now rightwing) and Mearsheimer (appeasement). Dzongsar's politics have not evolved a whit from the sort of campus radicals I saw in Cambridge, Ma, in the 1980's. Of course, it is not his job to be expert in international affairs, and so on. But the sources he chooses are not serious.

It's not really his fault-- there is no sustained discourse in Buddhism on governance and democracy, or for that matter, ethics. Nor should there be. But when your whole world view revolves around the idea that a religion has all the answers for the secular problems of health care, international relations, social justice, etc., you are bound to come up short in your understanding of the world around you and its issues.
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Konchog1
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Re: Someone go tell DJKR

Post by Konchog1 »

Malcolm wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 4:29 pmIt's not really his fault-- there is no sustained discourse in Buddhism on governance and democracy, or for that matter, ethics.
The Golden Light Sutra promotes absolute monarchy and Buddhist history promotes it as well, e.g. Ashoka and the Dharma Emperors.

https://studybuddhism.com/en/tibetan-bu ... vine-kings
Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.

-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra

"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."

-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats
Malcolm
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Re: Someone go tell DJKR

Post by Malcolm »

Konchog1 wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 5:47 pm
Malcolm wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 4:29 pmIt's not really his fault-- there is no sustained discourse in Buddhism on governance and democracy, or for that matter, ethics.
The Golden Light Sutra promotes absolute monarchy and Buddhist history promotes it as well, e.g. Ashoka and the Dharma Emperors.

https://studybuddhism.com/en/tibetan-bu ... vine-kings
Aṣoka was hardly a virtuous king. After he converted to Buddhadharma, he had 18,000 Jains executed on the basis of a cartoon. He placed a price on the heads of Jain mendicants, until his own brother was killed by a farmer and his wife for the bounty. They mistook Ashoka's brother for a Jain mendicant, and brought his head to Ashoka for payment.

The divine right of kings as well as absolute monarchy is rejected by Aryadeva. He points out kings rule only by the consent of the governed, thus rejecting absolute monarchy. The Yogic Deeds of Bodhisattvas, p. 118, states:

Society's servant, paid with a sixth part,
why have you become so arrogant?
Your becoming the agent of actions
depends on being placed in control.


The above passage also is relevant to the tulku system and so on.

The rest of the chapter demolishes the idea advanced in this rather late Mahāyāna sūtra:
Blessed by divine kings they enter into their mother’s womb; being first blessed by gods, afterwards, they enter her womb.
Once born in the human world, they become kings of humans. From gods they are born; thus they are called ‘divine son.’
On this point, Aryadeva rejects the divine right of kings, p. 127:

When all power and wealth
are produced by merit,
it cannot be said that this one
will be not a basis for power and wealth.


In other words, it is the accumulation of merit alone that determines wealth and power, not some divine benediction from worldly devas. And further, everyone can gather merit. So everyone is equal.

Thus, I regard the sūtra passage above to be completely provisional, culturally determined, and something which can be safely ignored in the modern context. Its general message about wicked rulers, etc. is totally fine.
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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: Someone go tell DJKR

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Passing By wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 2:51 pm
PeterC wrote: Wed Aug 03, 2022 3:57 am
KristenM wrote: Wed Aug 03, 2022 3:31 am DJKR’s latest FB post arguing the US is provoking China by Nancy Pelosi visiting Taiwan is ahem, interesting, I guess.
He needs to stick to topics he actually knows something about, rather than trying to comment on relatively complex geopolitics that he simply doesn't understand.
Complex or not, let's not kid ourselves that any of these so called "leaders" and warmongers on any side give two f***s about you, me, or any of the lives they wreck in all nations involved as well as the generational hatreds they entrench once the shooting starts.

I say it as someone living right on the frontlines of where this will go off if shit hits the fan. The artificial hostility the media stokes, the numbing of peoples' humanity.....absolute poison. The way they try to tear relationships between people on opposing sides apart....The worst kind of poison indeed
Yes, being a leader of humans is a certain type of ignorance. So what though, this is nothing new. We still have to make ethical judgements in imperfect situations.

There is a certain kind of thinking error in imagining that “The West” created imperialist ways, and that anyone not “The West” is incapable of similar stuff, they aren’t…people who are not “The West” or it’s mass media do such things all the time.

I looked in detail through his Facebook, which I hadn’t in a while…really a bunch of clumsy, juvenile stuff tbh, it amazes me that his students take it as intelligent political commentary.

That said, I remain impressed by many of his accessible Dharma teachings, and some of them really helped me.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared

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Queequeg
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Re: Someone go tell DJKR

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Malcolm wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 4:29 pm It's not really his fault-- there is no sustained discourse in Buddhism on governance and democracy, or for that matter, ethics. Nor should there be. But when your whole world view revolves around the idea that a religion has all the answers for the secular problems of health care, international relations, social justice, etc., you are bound to come up short in your understanding of the world around you and its issues.
I don't agree with bolded, but don't strongly disagree.

I believe that Dharma is applicable to everyday life, including civic life. History has shown, however, that when Dharma is too closely aligned with government, the sangha becomes distorted as does the Dharma taught and practiced. As the saying goes, power corrupts. Buddhist texts are filled with warnings about Dharma practitioners associating too closely with rulers. On the other hands, being too distant from everyday concerns has the danger of making the Dharma and Sangha excessively esoteric and irrelevant which has the effect of cutting off the lifeblood of the tradition.

Nagarjuna I think hit the right tenor in his Jeweled Garland. Nagasena's distance from King Milinda is also instructive. Of course, Buddha's relationship with Bimbisara and Udayana, and his approval of the democratic Vajjians is also instructive. Many other sages have navigated the relationship with rulers well.
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
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Malcolm
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Re: Someone go tell DJKR

Post by Malcolm »

Queequeg wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 6:42 pm
Malcolm wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 4:29 pm It's not really his fault-- there is no sustained discourse in Buddhism on governance and democracy, or for that matter, ethics. Nor should there be. But when your whole world view revolves around the idea that a religion has all the answers for the secular problems of health care, international relations, social justice, etc., you are bound to come up short in your understanding of the world around you and its issues.
I don't agree with bolded, but don't strongly disagree.

I believe that Dharma is applicable to everyday life, including civic life.
Yes, as a matter of personal conduct it is fine. But Dharma was not taught to resolve major social issues, etc., it is for personal evolution.

Nagarjuna I think hit the right tenor in his Jeweled Garland. Nagasena's distance from King Milinda is also instructive. Of course, Buddha's relationship with Bimbisara and Udayana, and his approval of the democratic Vajjians is also instructive. Many other sages have navigated the relationship with rulers well.
Buddhist ethical discourse up till now has been rather stunted by its long term association with absolute monarchs. What's the point of writing about ethics when it is as likely to get you murdered by an angry king as listened to by a kindly one?

Anyway, no text like the Nicomachean Ethics was ever produced in Buddhist circles in India, probably because Kautiliya's Arthaśastra was sufficient.
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Re: Someone go tell DJKR

Post by florin »

Malcolm wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 6:49 pm
Queequeg wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 6:42 pm
Malcolm wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 4:29 pm It's not really his fault-- there is no sustained discourse in Buddhism on governance and democracy, or for that matter, ethics. Nor should there be. But when your whole world view revolves around the idea that a religion has all the answers for the secular problems of health care, international relations, social justice, etc., you are bound to come up short in your understanding of the world around you and its issues.
I don't agree with bolded, but don't strongly disagree.

I believe that Dharma is applicable to everyday life, including civic life.
Yes, as a matter of personal conduct it is fine. But Dharma was not taught to resolve major social issues, etc., it is for personal evolution.

Nagarjuna I think hit the right tenor in his Jeweled Garland. Nagasena's distance from King Milinda is also instructive. Of course, Buddha's relationship with Bimbisara and Udayana, and his approval of the democratic Vajjians is also instructive. Many other sages have navigated the relationship with rulers well.
Buddhist ethical discourse up till now has been rather stunted by its long term association with absolute monarchs. What's the point of writing about ethics when it is as likely to get you murdered by an angry king as listened to by a kindly one?

Anyway, no text like the Nicomachean Ethics was ever produced in Buddhist circles in India, probably because Kautiliya's Arthaśastra was sufficient.
The century old polemics produced by tibetan schools have had wide ranging ramifications at the societal level. This raises the question whether some of these conceptual wars were pursued with the subtext of controlling the masses with the view to amass wealth, partisans and riches and ultimately power and influence.
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Re: Someone go tell DJKR

Post by KristenM »

Passing By wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 2:51 pm
PeterC wrote: Wed Aug 03, 2022 3:57 am
KristenM wrote: Wed Aug 03, 2022 3:31 am DJKR’s latest FB post arguing the US is provoking China by Nancy Pelosi visiting Taiwan is ahem, interesting, I guess.
He needs to stick to topics he actually knows something about, rather than trying to comment on relatively complex geopolitics that he simply doesn't understand.
Complex or not, let's not kid ourselves that any of these so called "leaders" and warmongers on any side give two f***s about you, me, or any of the lives they wreck in all nations involved as well as the generational hatreds they entrench once the shooting starts.

I say it as someone living right on the frontlines of where this will go off if shit hits the fan. The artificial hostility the media stokes, the numbing of peoples' humanity.....absolute poison. The way they try to tear relationships between people on opposing sides apart....The worst kind of poison indeed
What is the problem with Pelosi visiting Taiwan and saying she and the US supports their democracy? Why is that even a threat to China? We do enough business with the CCP, we clearly aren’t interested in regime change over there. If the CCP doesn’t respect Taiwan’s independence, that’s their problem. Obviously, the Taiwanese want to remain independent of China and are happy to have US support. It’s like we are supposed to fear the violent gang lord, kowtow to their demands and pay the mafia protection money. DJKR should be thankful there’s other countries like the US balancing power in the world.
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: Someone go tell DJKR

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

KristenM wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 3:10 am
Passing By wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 2:51 pm
Complex or not, let's not kid ourselves that any of these so called "leaders" and warmongers on any side give two f***s about you, me, or any of the lives they wreck in all nations involved as well as the generational hatreds they entrench once the shooting starts.

I say it as someone living right on the frontlines of where this will go off if shit hits the fan. The artificial hostility the media stokes, the numbing of peoples' humanity.....absolute poison. The way they try to tear relationships between people on opposing sides apart....The worst kind of poison indeed
What is the problem with Pelosi visiting Taiwan and saying she and the US supports their democracy? Why is that even a threat to China? We do enough business with the CCP, we clearly aren’t interested in regime change over there. If the CCP doesn’t respect Taiwan’s independence, that’s their problem. Obviously, the Taiwanese want to remain independent of China and are happy to have US support. It’s like we are supposed to fear the violent gang lord, kowtow to their demands and pay the mafia protection money. DJKR should be thankful there’s other countries like the US balancing power in the world.
These kinds of things, Pelosi’s visit, as well as China launching weapons into the water, are all a means of communication to each other. Not exactly sword-rattling per se. And not provocation either. More like the way dogs establish who is the alpha. Everybody wants to trade with each other and make money, and it doesn’t really matter who is the most powerful as long as the world keeps turning. Pelosi’s trip to Taiwan was a message to China not to mess up the current balance of things or the pecking order. China’s message back was, “okay, but we will comply because we choose to, not because we are afraid of you.”
This is all much better than actual war.
EMPTIFUL.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
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