Dzogchen Meditation Retreat with Chakung Jigme Wangdrak Rinpoche and Anam Thubten May 13-15 2022

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Shaiksha
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Re: Dzogchen Meditation Retreat with Chakung Jigme Wangdrak Rinpoche and Anam Thubten May 13-15 2022

Post by Shaiksha »

Nalanda wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 4:44 am So about samaya which was mentioned a number of times during the retreat, how does one actually respect that?

(Yes I know I asked this a couple of times, in case another one in the woods show up or PM me.)
Nalanda,

Given Chakung Rinpoche is from the Dudjom tersar tradition, it may be helpful to read the following book about samayas and vows written by Dudjom Rinpoche:

Perfect Conduct: Ascertaining the Three Vows

It is a comprehensive book about keeping your samayas and vows and should cover everything you need to know about this topic.

Chakung Rinpoche recently taught the concise preliminary in the Dudjom tersar tradition. If you follow him, you may also be required to do this - sooner or later. Just to let you know.
Last edited by Shaiksha on Wed May 18, 2022 9:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
Nalanda
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Re: Dzogchen Meditation Retreat with Chakung Jigme Wangdrak Rinpoche and Anam Thubten May 13-15 2022

Post by Nalanda »

Sweet thanks :heart:
IF YOU PRACTICE WITH A STRONG BELIEF IN WHAT
YOU ARE DOING, THEN THERE IS NO LIMIT TO WHAT
YOU CAN ACCOMPLISH WITH YOUR PRACTICE.

CHAKUNG JIGME WANGDRAK RINPOCHE

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Re: Dzogchen Meditation Retreat with Chakung Jigme Wangdrak Rinpoche and Anam Thubten May 13-15 2022

Post by Natan »

Virgo wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 10:54 pm
Crazywisdom wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 10:19 pm It's just gaslighting.
Let me ask this: do you think that having an Advaitan view as someone who is trying to practice Dzogchen is advantageous or disadvantageous?

Virgo
It's not going to happen with a lama. If it happens it won't last long.
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Re: Dzogchen Meditation Retreat with Chakung Jigme Wangdrak Rinpoche and Anam Thubten May 13-15 2022

Post by Virgo »

Crazywisdom wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 1:12 pm
Virgo wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 10:54 pm
Crazywisdom wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 10:19 pm It's just gaslighting.
Let me ask this: do you think that having an Advaitan view as someone who is trying to practice Dzogchen is advantageous or disadvantageous?

Virgo
It's not going to happen with a lama. If it happens it won't last long.
Right, well I am not going to try to condition people with Dharma anymore. They have the internet now, they can search. All these topics have been discussed in various places already many times, including open topics concerning Dzogchen. I don't need to come on the internet and get into arguments with people over these things. People need to use their fingertips, that is the day and age we live in.

Virgo
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Re: Dzogchen Meditation Retreat with Chakung Jigme Wangdrak Rinpoche and Anam Thubten May 13-15 2022

Post by Natan »

Virgo wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 5:56 pm
Crazywisdom wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 1:12 pm
Virgo wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 10:54 pm
Let me ask this: do you think that having an Advaitan view as someone who is trying to practice Dzogchen is advantageous or disadvantageous?

Virgo
It's not going to happen with a lama. If it happens it won't last long.
Right, well I am not going to try to condition people with Dharma anymore. They have the internet now, they can search. All these topics have been discussed in various places already many times, including open topics concerning Dzogchen. I don't need to come on the internet and get into arguments with people over these things. People need to use their fingertips, that is the day and age we live in.

Virgo
Who needs to? People need the research Buddhism on the internet? Teachers are better. Don't believe everything you read on the internet, especially from "experts."
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Re: Dzogchen Meditation Retreat with Chakung Jigme Wangdrak Rinpoche and Anam Thubten May 13-15 2022

Post by Josef »

Crazywisdom wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 1:12 pm
Virgo wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 10:54 pm
Crazywisdom wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 10:19 pm It's just gaslighting.
Let me ask this: do you think that having an Advaitan view as someone who is trying to practice Dzogchen is advantageous or disadvantageous?

Virgo
It's not going to happen with a lama. If it happens it won't last long.
if only.
"All phenomena of samsara depend on the mind, so when the essence of mind is purified, samsara is purified. Since the phenomena of nirvana depend on the pristine consciousness of vidyā, because one remains in the immediacy of vidyā, buddhahood arises on its own. All critical points are summarized with those two." - Longchenpa
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Re: Dzogchen Meditation Retreat with Chakung Jigme Wangdrak Rinpoche and Anam Thubten May 13-15 2022

Post by Passing By »

Malcolm wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 10:33 pm
cjb wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 9:07 pm
Malcolm wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 1:22 am

Spoken like a true crypto-advaitan.
Hi Malcom,

I appreciate your translation work, thank you very much for your efforts.

I'm not familiar with this term at all.
Your assertion that "awareness," by which I assume you mean the term "rig pa," is not something to be cultivated is completely mistaken. I am not sure where you learned this, but it is not a correct understanding. Rig pa is just a special kind of knowledge, that's all.
Is it correct to say that the Basis (gzhi in Nyingma /Kun gzhi in Bon) and its characteristics of ngowo, rang zhin and thukje or the dang, rolpa, tsal, need no cultivation, and so is always ready to be recognized or ("observed" for want of better word) by using the method used to give you pointing out for yourself?
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Re: Dzogchen Meditation Retreat with Chakung Jigme Wangdrak Rinpoche and Anam Thubten May 13-15 2022

Post by Natan »

Josef wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 6:38 pm
Crazywisdom wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 1:12 pm
Virgo wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 10:54 pm
Let me ask this: do you think that having an Advaitan view as someone who is trying to practice Dzogchen is advantageous or disadvantageous?

Virgo
It's not going to happen with a lama. If it happens it won't last long.
if only.
My lama was constantly examining my view. What is Mahamudra? Etc. Always cross examining. Maybe some lamas just read out loud. Maybe some students are just parrots of Longchenpa and speak in pastiche. Maybe some are cutting and pasting quotes until it becomes a verbal montage. The state of affairs is very sad. But there are authentic lamas and sincere students. As long as that is true, it's ok. But this deal about right view needs to be simple. Otherwise you get the Jonang vs Geluk & Sakya vs Kagyu & Nyingma with all these groups accusing one another of wrong view. And here, oh look finger pointing Crypto Eternanalist. And one can easily quote from any one of these lineages to both support and negate anything about view and come out on top of any discussion. It's metaphysical pandemonium. This is why frown on all this big talk and favor simple illustrative method.
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Re: Dzogchen Meditation Retreat with Chakung Jigme Wangdrak Rinpoche and Anam Thubten May 13-15 2022

Post by Archie2009 »

Crazywisdom wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 2:06 pm
Josef wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 6:38 pm
Crazywisdom wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 1:12 pm
It's not going to happen with a lama. If it happens it won't last long.
if only.
My lama was constantly examining my view. What is Mahamudra? Etc. Always cross examining. Maybe some lamas just read out loud. Maybe some students are just parrots of Longchenpa and speak in pastiche. Maybe some are cutting and pasting quotes until it becomes a verbal montage. The state of affairs is very sad. But there are authentic lamas and sincere students. As long as that is true, it's ok. But this deal about right view needs to be simple. Otherwise you get the Jonang vs Geluk & Sakya vs Kagyu & Nyingma with all these groups accusing one another of wrong view. And here, oh look finger pointing Crypto Eternanalist. And one can easily quote from any one of these lineages to both support and negate anything about view and come out on top of any discussion. It's metaphysical pandemonium. This is why frown on all this big talk and favor simple illustrative method.
What is your take on errors in translation being responsible for a very large % of misunderstanding of Dzogchen among practitioners? For example, if people were parroting certain Longchenpa translations they would be perpetuating misunderstanding.
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Re: Dzogchen Meditation Retreat with Chakung Jigme Wangdrak Rinpoche and Anam Thubten May 13-15 2022

Post by Natan »

Archie2009 wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 4:49 pm
Crazywisdom wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 2:06 pm
Josef wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 6:38 pm

if only.
My lama was constantly examining my view. What is Mahamudra? Etc. Always cross examining. Maybe some lamas just read out loud. Maybe some students are just parrots of Longchenpa and speak in pastiche. Maybe some are cutting and pasting quotes until it becomes a verbal montage. The state of affairs is very sad. But there are authentic lamas and sincere students. As long as that is true, it's ok. But this deal about right view needs to be simple. Otherwise you get the Jonang vs Geluk & Sakya vs Kagyu & Nyingma with all these groups accusing one another of wrong view. And here, oh look finger pointing Crypto Eternanalist. And one can easily quote from any one of these lineages to both support and negate anything about view and come out on top of any discussion. It's metaphysical pandemonium. This is why frown on all this big talk and favor simple illustrative method.
What is your take on errors in translation being responsible for a very large % of misunderstanding of Dzogchen among practitioners? For example, if people were parroting certain Longchenpa translations they would be perpetuating misunderstanding.
I think translation is a very difficult job. In my opinion it's best done under the guidance of a lama who verifies the translator has the experience which he is writing about.
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Re: Dzogchen Meditation Retreat with Chakung Jigme Wangdrak Rinpoche and Anam Thubten May 13-15 2022

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

Crazywisdom wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 2:06 pm
Josef wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 6:38 pm
Crazywisdom wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 1:12 pm
It's not going to happen with a lama. If it happens it won't last long.
if only.
My lama was constantly examining my view. What is Mahamudra? Etc. Always cross examining. Maybe some lamas just read out loud. Maybe some students are just parrots of Longchenpa and speak in pastiche. Maybe some are cutting and pasting quotes until it becomes a verbal montage. The state of affairs is very sad. But there are authentic lamas and sincere students. As long as that is true, it's ok. But this deal about right view needs to be simple. Otherwise you get the Jonang vs Geluk & Sakya vs Kagyu & Nyingma with all these groups accusing one another of wrong view. And here, oh look finger pointing Crypto Eternanalist. And one can easily quote from any one of these lineages to both support and negate anything about view and come out on top of any discussion. It's metaphysical pandemonium. This is why frown on all this big talk and favor simple illustrative method.

I have really come around to this view. It’s not that I don’t see the importance of establishing right view, I just think most contemporary polemicism is primarily a way of wasting ones time. I mean I participate myself, in no way am I above it, I’m just not gonna justify it as something productive when it’s not. It’s so easy to become enamored with our own thoughts! Damn!
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared

-Khunu Lama
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Re: Dzogchen Meditation Retreat with Chakung Jigme Wangdrak Rinpoche and Anam Thubten May 13-15 2022

Post by Malcolm »

Passing By wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 5:44 am
Is it correct to say that the Basis (gzhi in Nyingma /Kun gzhi in Bon) and its characteristics of ngowo, rang zhin and thukje or the dang, rolpa, tsal, need no cultivation, and so is always ready to be recognized or ("observed" for want of better word) by using the method used to give you pointing out for yourself?
The basis is your real nature. So, it is like picking the fruit of the a tree. As it says in the Tantra Without Syllables, the dharmakāya is encountered in the intimate instructions. So, one does need a qualified teacher.
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Re: Dzogchen Meditation Retreat with Chakung Jigme Wangdrak Rinpoche and Anam Thubten May 13-15 2022

Post by Malcolm »

Johnny Dangerous wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 6:43 pm
I have really come around to this view. It’s not that I don’t see the importance of establishing right view, I just think most contemporary polemicism is primarily a way of wasting ones time. I mean I participate myself, in no way am I above it, I’m just not gonna justify it as something productive when it’s not. It’s so easy to become enamored with our own thoughts! Damn!
The purpose of studying of tenets is not to become expert in arguments, rather, the purpose is to identify erroneous concepts one may be holding and abandon them.

There are two basic erroneous concepts: "This is" and "This isn't." All tenets spring from these two assertions. The only view free from these two assertions of the view of dependent origination, i.e. the Buddha's view.
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Re: Dzogchen Meditation Retreat with Chakung Jigme Wangdrak Rinpoche and Anam Thubten May 13-15 2022

Post by fckw »

Archie2009 wrote: Sat May 14, 2022 8:45 pm
Nalanda wrote: Sat May 14, 2022 8:33 pm I asked the volunteer team the specs/details about this Dzogchen retreat.

Now, I'm not quite sure what Anam Thubten (AT) talked about. Meditation on the sound of 4 elements? There was really no clear instruction on that. Or did he just teach that historically it was being done in the past but not anymore? If so, he still said in the end that this is part of the preliminary? (or the kind lady in the end said that, she might have)

And then there is this practice: "reh shen" or "russian" "rigdzin"?

What is it?
Yes, that particular preliminary is not practiced often anymore. See e.g. the Yeshe Lama where it is briefly mentioned. The source for that practice is the sgra thal 'gyur, one of the 17 tantras. There are other preliminaries which can be practiced internally, that of the mind, which Chakung Jigme Wangdrak Rinpoche will explain in the later session, as he ran out of time just now.

འཁོར་འདས་རུ་ཤན་, 'khor 'das ru shan, the parting into sides of saṃsāra and nirvāṇa.
I did not participate in the retreat, so I cannot truly comment. However, it reminds me on one specific Dzogchen preliminary practice that Ian Baker mentioned some time ago in one talk, I don't think he mentioned the name explicitly, but it was certainly related to four elements. I was surprised by this, because a) I had never heard of this practice before (which does not mean a lot), and b) because it seemed more or less identical to some practices known to in certain "Hindu" tantric traditions. He did present some photos too of a yogini actually performing part of the practice, I was quite impressed to say the least. I would assume that his own teacher Chatral Rinpoche was acquainted with those practices. Yet, of course this does not contradict what Malcolm said, that parts of some crucial manual have been lost, and what is left today may be incomplete. Then again, it seems Ian Baker holds some positions that are rejected by some traditionalists, so those people will naturally be inclined to reject also the claim that there exist such common practices among both Buddhist Dzogchenpas and Hindu tantrics.
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Re: Dzogchen Meditation Retreat with Chakung Jigme Wangdrak Rinpoche and Anam Thubten May 13-15 2022

Post by Terma »

Crazywisdom wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 6:23 pm
Virgo wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 5:56 pm
Crazywisdom wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 1:12 pm
It's not going to happen with a lama. If it happens it won't last long.
Right, well I am not going to try to condition people with Dharma anymore. They have the internet now, they can search. All these topics have been discussed in various places already many times, including open topics concerning Dzogchen. I don't need to come on the internet and get into arguments with people over these things. People need to use their fingertips, that is the day and age we live in.

Virgo
Who needs to? People need the research Buddhism on the internet? Teachers are better. Don't believe everything you read on the internet, especially from "experts."
I agree with this. Of course understanding terminology and so e background is very helpful, but this tradition is really built in experience.

Like we all say, a teacher really is indespensible. And when some teachers suggest (or really tell their students) not to read certain things, it is because the more intellectual one gets about "the view" and all that, the further one strays from authentic experience.

One teacher I know is really good at challenging what we think we understand. He will give us a simple question, something that one truly needs to investigate. Often times this shows that when one thinks they understand something, a single question can make it all crumble. We need to be careful with what we "think" we understand.
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