Hello,
I wanted to ask if anyone could explain to me the EKŌKU verses, and the theology behind it as its used in Jodo Shin Shu Liturgy? Am i correct in my understanding that we are dedicating the merits that Amida transfers to us upon entrusting him to all sentient beings in these verses? Also, unless I've read them wrong, it seems from my simple readings of Shandao and Honen that they understood dedication of merit as the majority of Mahayana Buddhism does. Why does Shinran seem to interpret the dedication of merit in such a radical way compared to them? Couldn't it be argued that he departed from Shandao and Honen in this regard ( In particular with regard to the third aspect of the three minds, "the Mind which Dedicates One's Merit to the Pure Land with the Resolution to Be Born There (ekohotsuganshin)")? I remember reading somewhere in Shinran's Kyōgyōshinshō that he defends his understanding of this, but from what i remember it just doesn't seem to line up with what I've read of those teachers that came before him. I'm gonna start reading the Kyōgyōshinshō again tomorrow, and look at the how Shinran understands the Three minds again, but in the mean time any help would be appreciated. Lasty, i'm sure theres some subtly i'm missing in Shinran's though on this point, if anyone could point me to a primary source that would clear this up for me from Shinran, Honen, or Shandao i would be most grateful.
EKŌKU verses in Shin Liturgy, and Shinran's understanding of the dedication of merit
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Re: EKŌKU verses in Shin Liturgy, and Shinran's understanding of the dedication of merit
The Ekō is just an aspiration that all beings can receive/accept the merit transference from Amida. There isn't transference from us to any other being in Jōdo Shinshū.The Mantra Mongoose wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 3:03 am Am i correct in my understanding that we are dedicating the merits that Amida transfers to us upon entrusting him to all sentient beings in these verses?
I am not familiar with writings by Shandao or Honen that differ. Shinran's understanding of merit transference is based on Tanluan's commentary, so it shouldn't be at variance. Of course in JSS we read the patriarchs' writings through the lens of Shinran, but it might take some digging to find anything majorly at variance. Maybe you could specify what made you feel like there is a difference.The Mantra Mongoose wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 3:03 am Also, unless I've read them wrong, it seems from my simple readings of Shandao and Honen that they understood dedication of merit as the majority of Mahayana Buddhism does. Why does Shinran seem to interpret the dedication of merit in such a radical way compared to them?
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Re: EKŌKU verses in Shin Liturgy, and Shinran's understanding of the dedication of merit
Hello Zhen Li,Zhen Li wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 4:48 amThe Ekō is just an aspiration that all beings can receive/accept the merit transference from Amida. There isn't transference from us to any other being in Jōdo Shinshū.The Mantra Mongoose wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 3:03 am Am i correct in my understanding that we are dedicating the merits that Amida transfers to us upon entrusting him to all sentient beings in these verses?I am not familiar with writings by Shandao or Honen that differ. Shinran's understanding of merit transference is based on Tanluan's commentary, so it shouldn't be at variance. Of course in JSS we read the patriarchs' writings through the lens of Shinran, but it might take some digging to find anything majorly at variance. Maybe you could specify what made you feel like there is a difference.The Mantra Mongoose wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 3:03 am Also, unless I've read them wrong, it seems from my simple readings of Shandao and Honen that they understood dedication of merit as the majority of Mahayana Buddhism does. Why does Shinran seem to interpret the dedication of merit in such a radical way compared to them?
Thanks for responding, your helped me clarify what Eko was and i appreciate it. I think i'm misinterpreting the way Shandao and Honen understand the three minds and in particular "the Mind which Dedicates One's Merit to the Pure Land with the Resolution to Be Born There (ekohotsuganshin)"). I may have been reading both of them through an interpretive lens that doesn't apply, and reading into the importance they give to the dedication of merit toward rebirth/aspiration in the pureland vs Shinran. While i realize both Honen and Shandao both emphasized the 18 vow along with recitation of nembustu, they both seem to also stress the need to dedicate the merit from our recitation of the name towards rebirth along with aspiration. where i read Shinran seeing that wish or aspiration for rebirth in Sukhavati as implicit in Shinjin so less of a emphasis is placed in that direction rather entrusting oneself solely to Amida Buddha. I probably just need to spend more time reading the primary sources, i'm sure i was just misreading things. Personally, i just entrust myself to Amida Buddha and recite nembustu out of graditude, i dont use a liturgy so when i came across Eko i though i wasn't understanding something correctly which also lead me to wonder about the other stuff with Shandao and Honen.
Re: EKŌKU verses in Shin Liturgy, and Shinran's understanding of the dedication of merit
Yes the Ekō verses are really not a statement related to the three minds, but the transfer of merits from Amida includes the three minds.
Yes, Shinran upholds the three minds as distinct if one practices through self power by the 19th or 20th vow, but if practising by other power through the 18th vow they are one threefold mind given by Amida.The Mantra Mongoose wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 5:19 am While i realize both Honen and Shandao both emphasized the 18 vow along with recitation of nembustu, they both seem to also stress the need to dedicate the merit from our recitation of the name towards rebirth along with aspiration. where i read Shinran seeing that wish or aspiration for rebirth in Sukhavati as implicit in Shinjin so less of a emphasis is placed in that direction rather entrusting oneself solely to Amida Buddha.
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Re: EKŌKU verses in Shin Liturgy, and Shinran's understanding of the dedication of merit
Ah, now everything is coming together. i wasn't seeing the distinction between the different vows and how the three fold mind arises. I was also not seeing a distinction with Honen and Shandao and how they understood dedication of merit vs self power paths and practices in general mahayana. i'm gonna have to find and read Tanluan's commentary. Thanks for helping me sort through this Zhen LI.Zhen Li wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 5:53 am Yes the Ekō verses are really not a statement related to the three minds, but the transfer of merits from Amida includes the three minds.Yes, Shinran upholds the three minds as distinct if one practices through self power by the 19th or 20th vow, but if practising by other power through the 18th vow they are one threefold mind given by Amida.The Mantra Mongoose wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 5:19 am While i realize both Honen and Shandao both emphasized the 18 vow along with recitation of nembustu, they both seem to also stress the need to dedicate the merit from our recitation of the name towards rebirth along with aspiration. where i read Shinran seeing that wish or aspiration for rebirth in Sukhavati as implicit in Shinjin so less of a emphasis is placed in that direction rather entrusting oneself solely to Amida Buddha.