Buddhism's solution to abject poverty

Discuss the application of the Dharma to situations of social, political, environmental and economic suffering and injustice.
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Lotomístico
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Buddhism's solution to abject poverty

Post by Lotomístico »

Every day I'm cofronted with extreme poverty when I walk out the door, beggars with small children or even children alone asking for food or spare change, Monday I was especially horrified by the sight of a young family (mom, dad, 2 young kids) rummaging through a heap of garbage bags looking for perhaps something of value and eating leftover food, can't society do better somehow? What is the solution, if any? Buddhism is primarily about relief from suffering in every tradition, what práctical solutions can Buddhism offer to solve these problems? Because I'm feeling overwhelmed and I'm really not sure what I can do, I try to give spare change but this not a lasting solution. Any ideas or suggestions are much appreciated.
One should become the master of one’s mind rather than let one’s mind master oneself.
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Re: Buddhism's solution to abject poverty

Post by Malcolm »

Lotomístico wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 8:10 pm Every day I'm cofronted with extreme poverty when I walk out the door, beggars with small children or even children alone asking for food or spare change, Monday I was especially horrified by the sight of a young family (mom, dad, 2 young kids) rummaging through a heap of garbage bags looking for perhaps something of value and eating leftover food, can't society do better somehow? What is the solution, if any? Buddhism is primarily about relief from suffering in every tradition, what práctical solutions can Buddhism offer to solve these problems? Because I'm feeling overwhelmed and I'm really not sure what I can do, I try to give spare change but this not a lasting solution. Any ideas or suggestions are much appreciated.
This is not a job for Buddhism. This a job for the state. Buddhists can act on their conscience, however, and try to address these issues as best they can.
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Re: Buddhism's solution to abject poverty

Post by Lotomístico »

Malcolm wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 8:35 pm
Lotomístico wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 8:10 pm Every day I'm cofronted with extreme poverty when I walk out the door, beggars with small children or even children alone asking for food or spare change, Monday I was especially horrified by the sight of a young family (mom, dad, 2 young kids) rummaging through a heap of garbage bags looking for perhaps something of value and eating leftover food, can't society do better somehow? What is the solution, if any? Buddhism is primarily about relief from suffering in every tradition, what práctical solutions can Buddhism offer to solve these problems? Because I'm feeling overwhelmed and I'm really not sure what I can do, I try to give spare change but this not a lasting solution. Any ideas or suggestions are much appreciated.
This is not a job for Buddhism. This a job for the state. Buddhists can act on their conscience, however, and try to address these issues as best they can.
So Buddhism can provide no lasting solutions to human suffering? Governments in much of the world are either incapable or unwilling to do anything about this and countless other problems faced by humanity. I was hoping Buddhism could offer solutions to human suffering, a person who cannot feed, clothe nor otherwise provide for themselves isn't going to sign up for a meditation course, básic needs must be met.
Last edited by Lotomístico on Wed Jul 14, 2021 9:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Buddhism's solution to abject poverty

Post by Hazel »

Lotomístico wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 8:49 pm
Malcolm wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 8:35 pm
Lotomístico wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 8:10 pm Every day I'm cofronted with extreme poverty when I walk out the door, beggars with small children or even children alone asking for food or spare change, Monday I was especially horrified by the sight of a young family (mom, dad, 2 young kids) rummaging through a heap of garbage bags looking for perhaps something of value and eating leftover food, can't society do better somehow? What is the solution, if any? Buddhism is primarily about relief from suffering in every tradition, what práctical solutions can Buddhism offer to solve these problems? Because I'm feeling overwhelmed and I'm really not sure what I can do, I try to give spare change but this not a lasting solution. Any ideas or suggestions are much appreciated.
This is not a job for Buddhism. This a job for the state. Buddhists can act on their conscience, however, and try to address these issues as best they can.
So Buddhism can provide no lasting solutions to human suffering? Governments in much of the world are either incapable or unwilling to do anything about this and countless other problems faced by humanity. I was hoping Buddhism could offer solutions to human suffering, a person who cannot feed, clothe nor otherwise provide for themselves isn't going to sign up for a meditation course, básic needs must be met.
Anyway, not my problem, I'll let "the state" figure it out, we see how that's working out with regards to poverty and a host of other social ills. They can't, so apparently there are no lasting solutions, just temporary fixes. And Buddhism has no social welfare system nor is there much helping or sense of community among many Buddhists themselves. So much for the Bodhissattva ideal and human compassion. Better focus on myself then, go to the Buddhist center or log on to DW and discuss other matters.
Yes, should've known better, thought I'd ask, thanks for the clarification.
May all sentient beings be happy and free from suffering.

Due to the sarcasm this comes across as trolling which has no place here. If you seriously have questions or concerns you want an answer to, I suggest a different tact.

EDIT: User has since accommodated the feedback and edited their original post. Thank you!
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Re: Buddhism's solution to abject poverty

Post by Lotomístico »

Hazel wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 8:56 pm
Lotomístico wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 8:49 pm
Malcolm wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 8:35 pm

This is not a job for Buddhism. This a job for the state. Buddhists can act on their conscience, however, and try to address these issues as best they can.
So Buddhism can provide no lasting solutions to human suffering? Governments in much of the world are either incapable or unwilling to do anything about this and countless other problems faced by humanity. I was hoping Buddhism could offer solutions to human suffering, a person who cannot feed, clothe nor otherwise provide for themselves isn't going to sign up for a meditation course, básic needs must be met.
Anyway, not my problem, I'll let "the state" figure it out, we see how that's working out with regards to poverty and a host of other social ills. They can't, so apparently there are no lasting solutions, just temporary fixes. And Buddhism has no social welfare system nor is there much helping or sense of community among many Buddhists themselves. So much for the Bodhissattva ideal and human compassion. Better focus on myself then, go to the Buddhist center or log on to DW and discuss other matters.
Yes, should've known better, thought I'd ask, thanks for the clarification.
May all sentient beings be happy and free from suffering.

Sarcasm and trolling have no place here. If you seriously have questions or concerns you want an answer to, I suggest a different tact.
My question is asked sincerely and I'm seeking a sincere answer. I appreciate Malcolm's honest response, maybe he's right.
As ridículous as the idea of seeking lasting solutions to problems facing humanity might seem to many (as there don't appear to be many realistic solutions and many might feel it isn't possible), my question is not a troll. Nor was my response intended as sarcasm.
By all means, I would be keen to hear your response to the question.
One should become the master of one’s mind rather than let one’s mind master oneself.
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Re: Buddhism's solution to abject poverty

Post by Hazel »

Lotomístico wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 9:04 pm
Hazel wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 8:56 pm
Lotomístico wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 8:49 pm
So Buddhism can provide no lasting solutions to human suffering? Governments in much of the world are either incapable or unwilling to do anything about this and countless other problems faced by humanity. I was hoping Buddhism could offer solutions to human suffering, a person who cannot feed, clothe nor otherwise provide for themselves isn't going to sign up for a meditation course, básic needs must be met.
Anyway, not my problem, I'll let "the state" figure it out, we see how that's working out with regards to poverty and a host of other social ills. They can't, so apparently there are no lasting solutions, just temporary fixes. And Buddhism has no social welfare system nor is there much helping or sense of community among many Buddhists themselves. So much for the Bodhissattva ideal and human compassion. Better focus on myself then, go to the Buddhist center or log on to DW and discuss other matters.
Yes, should've known better, thought I'd ask, thanks for the clarification.
May all sentient beings be happy and free from suffering.

Sarcasm and trolling have no place here. If you seriously have questions or concerns you want an answer to, I suggest a different tact.
My question is asked sincerely and I'm seeking a sincere answer. I appreciate Malcolm's honest response, maybe he's right.
As ridículous as the idea of seeking lasting solutions to problems facing humanity might seem to many (as there don't appear to be many realistic solutions and many might feel it isn't possible), my question is not a troll. Nor was my response intended as sarcasm.
By all means, I would be keen to hear your response to the question.

I apologize if I misinterpreted your tone. I was referring to "So much for the Bodhissattva ideal and human compassion. Better focus on myself then, go to the Buddhist center or log on to DW and discuss other matters" and "Anyway, not my problem, I'll let "the state" figure it out, we see how that's working out with regards to poverty and a host of other social ills."

Lotomístico wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 8:49 pm So Buddhism can provide no lasting solutions to human suffering?
Incorrect. The chief goal of Buddhism is a lasting solution to human suffering that is so effective it does not just pertain to this life or moments in this life.

You're exactly right that people without basic necessities will have a hard time practicing the dharma. I think we should do whatever we can as individuals and as a society to work towards getting those basic necessities met and I think many buddhists are dedicated to this. However, that's not the particular toolbox that Buddhism presents. I don't think it means that Buddhism isn't a good or sufficient toolbox, it just means we need - in my opinion - multiple toolboxes.

Edit:

Something you'll hear said is that people think they should just focus on their own enlightenment and wait to help others, but that's bonkers to me.
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Re: Buddhism's solution to abject poverty

Post by Hazel »

I think one thing Buddhism offers is a clear head. I think we get ourselves and each other into a lot of trouble operating in a delusional state and we become better at helping each other and get in less trouble the more we diminish that state. I think THAT is what Buddhism has to offer most in terms of addressing abject poverty.

If an individual is so worried about getting the nicest shiniest car because they think it'll bring them lasting happiness, then they're likely not going to volunteer at a food shelter.
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Re: Buddhism's solution to abject poverty

Post by Lotomístico »

Hazel wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 9:11 pm
Lotomístico wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 9:04 pm
Hazel wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 8:56 pm


Sarcasm and trolling have no place here. If you seriously have questions or concerns you want an answer to, I suggest a different tact.
My question is asked sincerely and I'm seeking a sincere answer. I appreciate Malcolm's honest response, maybe he's right.
As ridículous as the idea of seeking lasting solutions to problems facing humanity might seem to many (as there don't appear to be many realistic solutions and many might feel it isn't possible), my question is not a troll. Nor was my response intended as sarcasm.
By all means, I would be keen to hear your response to the question.

I apologize if I misinterpreted your tone. I was referring to "So much for the Bodhissattva ideal and human compassion. Better focus on myself then, go to the Buddhist center or log on to DW and discuss other matters" and "Anyway, not my problem, I'll let "the state" figure it out, we see how that's working out with regards to poverty and a host of other social ills."

Lotomístico wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 8:49 pm So Buddhism can provide no lasting solutions to human suffering?
Incorrect. The chief goal of Buddhism is a lasting solution to human suffering that is so effective it does not just pertain to this life or moments in this life.

You're exactly right that people without basic necessities will have a hard time practicing the dharma. I think we should do whatever we can as individuals and as a society to work towards getting those basic necessities met and I think many buddhists are dedicated to this. However, that's not the particular toolbox that Buddhism presents. I don't think it means that Buddhism isn't a good or sufficient toolbox, it just means we need - in my opinion - multiple toolboxes.

Edit:

Something you'll hear said is that people think they should just focus on their own enlightenment and wait to help others, but that's bonkers to me.
Yes, thank you for your response, I apologize as well and will edit my comment to remove the part you quoted that was sarcastic- I admit it and I'm sorry.
I appreciate your response to my question as well, thank you, it makes sense to me.
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Re: Buddhism's solution to abject poverty

Post by Lotomístico »

Hazel wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 9:15 pm I think one thing Buddhism offers is a clear head. I think we get ourselves and each other into a lot of trouble operating in a delusional state and we become better at helping each other and get in less trouble the more we diminish that state. I think THAT is what Buddhism has to offer most in terms of addressing abject poverty.

If an individual is so worried about getting the nicest shiniest car because they think it'll bring them lasting happiness, then they're likely not going to volunteer at a food shelter.
Exactly, gracias
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Re: Buddhism's solution to abject poverty

Post by Malcolm »

Lotomístico wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 8:49 pm
Malcolm wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 8:35 pm
Lotomístico wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 8:10 pm Every day I'm cofronted with extreme poverty when I walk out the door, beggars with small children or even children alone asking for food or spare change, Monday I was especially horrified by the sight of a young family (mom, dad, 2 young kids) rummaging through a heap of garbage bags looking for perhaps something of value and eating leftover food, can't society do better somehow? What is the solution, if any? Buddhism is primarily about relief from suffering in every tradition, what práctical solutions can Buddhism offer to solve these problems? Because I'm feeling overwhelmed and I'm really not sure what I can do, I try to give spare change but this not a lasting solution. Any ideas or suggestions are much appreciated.
This is not a job for Buddhism. This a job for the state. Buddhists can act on their conscience, however, and try to address these issues as best they can.
So Buddhism can provide no lasting solutions to human suffering?
Your title is "Buddhism's solution to abject poverty."

2. "Master Gotama, what is the reason, what is the condition, why inferiority and superiority are met with among human beings, among mankind? For one meets with short-lived and long-lived people, sick and healthy people, ugly and beautiful people, insignificant and influential people, poor and rich people, low-born and high-born people, stupid and wise people. What is the reason, what is the condition, why superiority and inferiority are met with among human beings, among mankind?"

3. "Student, beings are owners of kammas, heirs of kammas, they have kammas as their progenitor, kammas as their kin, kammas as their homing-place. It is kammas that differentiate beings according to inferiority and superiority."


https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .nymo.html

Change your karma, change your future lives.

Governments in much of the world are either incapable or unwilling to do anything about this and countless other problems faced by humanity. I was hoping Buddhism could offer solutions to human suffering, a person who cannot feed, clothe nor otherwise provide for themselves isn't going to sign up for a meditation course, básic needs must be met.
Governments are responsible for feeding, clothing, and providing for those who cannot provide these basic necessities for themselves. And you have left out most sentient beings. Who is going to take care of feeding, clothing, and otherwise providing for animals, insects, etc? Why restrict your domain to humans?

Change your karma, change your future lives.
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Re: Buddhism's solution to abject poverty

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

Lotomístico wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 9:04 pm
Hazel wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 8:56 pm
Lotomístico wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 8:49 pm
So Buddhism can provide no lasting solutions to human suffering? Governments in much of the world are either incapable or unwilling to do anything about this and countless other problems faced by humanity. I was hoping Buddhism could offer solutions to human suffering, a person who cannot feed, clothe nor otherwise provide for themselves isn't going to sign up for a meditation course, básic needs must be met.
Anyway, not my problem, I'll let "the state" figure it out, we see how that's working out with regards to poverty and a host of other social ills. They can't, so apparently there are no lasting solutions, just temporary fixes. And Buddhism has no social welfare system nor is there much helping or sense of community among many Buddhists themselves. So much for the Bodhissattva ideal and human compassion. Better focus on myself then, go to the Buddhist center or log on to DW and discuss other matters.
Yes, should've known better, thought I'd ask, thanks for the clarification.
May all sentient beings be happy and free from suffering.

Sarcasm and trolling have no place here. If you seriously have questions or concerns you want an answer to, I suggest a different tact.
My question is asked sincerely and I'm seeking a sincere answer. I appreciate Malcolm's honest response, maybe he's right.
As ridículous as the idea of seeking lasting solutions to problems facing humanity might seem to many (as there don't appear to be many realistic solutions and many might feel it isn't possible), my question is not a troll. Nor was my response intended as sarcasm.
By all means, I would be keen to hear your response to the question.
Buddhism has never professed to be able to solve large scale social problems such as this, other than to perhaps encourage people to make socially responsible and compassionate decisions, or to advocate for human policies.

A simple example would be advocating taking money away from the insane amount that many countries spend on their military, and redirecting some of it to social programs that address poverty, etc. Even this is a very controversial suggestion to many people though, and actually getting it done is difficult because 'society' as such (and us - the individuals that comprise it) are driven by the Three Poisons in so many ways.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared

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Re: Buddhism's solution to abject poverty

Post by Lotomístico »

Malcolm wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 9:32 pm
Lotomístico wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 8:49 pm
Malcolm wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 8:35 pm

This is not a job for Buddhism. This a job for the state. Buddhists can act on their conscience, however, and try to address these issues as best they can.
So Buddhism can provide no lasting solutions to human suffering?
Your title is "Buddhism's solution to abject poverty."

2. "Master Gotama, what is the reason, what is the condition, why inferiority and superiority are met with among human beings, among mankind? For one meets with short-lived and long-lived people, sick and healthy people, ugly and beautiful people, insignificant and influential people, poor and rich people, low-born and high-born people, stupid and wise people. What is the reason, what is the condition, why superiority and inferiority are met with among human beings, among mankind?"

3. "Student, beings are owners of kammas, heirs of kammas, they have kammas as their progenitor, kammas as their kin, kammas as their homing-place. It is kammas that differentiate beings according to inferiority and superiority."


https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .nymo.html

Change your karma, change your future lives.

Governments in much of the world are either incapable or unwilling to do anything about this and countless other problems faced by humanity. I was hoping Buddhism could offer solutions to human suffering, a person who cannot feed, clothe nor otherwise provide for themselves isn't going to sign up for a meditation course, básic needs must be met.
Governments are responsible for feeding, clothing, and providing for those who cannot provide these basic necessities for themselves. And you have left out most sentient beings. Who is going to take care of feeding, clothing, and otherwise providing for animals, insects, etc? Why restrict your domain to humans?

Change your karma, change your future lives.
Fair enough. Also, I would like to apologize for my earlier response, I let my emotions get the best of me.
Last edited by Lotomístico on Wed Jul 14, 2021 10:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Buddhism's solution to abject poverty

Post by Lotomístico »

Johnny Dangerous wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 9:44 pm
Lotomístico wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 9:04 pm
Hazel wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 8:56 pm


Sarcasm and trolling have no place here. If you seriously have questions or concerns you want an answer to, I suggest a different tact.
My question is asked sincerely and I'm seeking a sincere answer. I appreciate Malcolm's honest response, maybe he's right.
As ridículous as the idea of seeking lasting solutions to problems facing humanity might seem to many (as there don't appear to be many realistic solutions and many might feel it isn't possible), my question is not a troll. Nor was my response intended as sarcasm.
By all means, I would be keen to hear your response to the question.
Buddhism has never professed to be able to solve large scale social problems such as this, other than to perhaps encourage people to make socially responsible and compassionate decisions, or to advocate for human policies.

A simple example would be advocating taking money away from the insane amount that many countries spend on their military, and redirecting some of it to social programs that address poverty, etc. Even this is a very controversial suggestion to many people though, and actually getting it done is difficult because 'society' as such (and us - the individuals that comprise it) are driven by the Three Poisons in so many ways.
Thank you, makes sense.
One should become the master of one’s mind rather than let one’s mind master oneself.
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Re: Buddhism's solution to abject poverty

Post by Lotomístico »

Could we say, then, that Buddhism is primarily focused (as are many if not most religions) on afterlife or future lives?
One could also see the negative aspect of seeing suffering people and saying, "well, it's their karma" as a way of easing one's conscience or absolving one's responsibility to be socially conscious. I experienced that in India and Thailand where many expresed this attitude to me. Of course, Karma Is the teaching of Buddhism (and Hinduism), but naturally if we help a needy person, isn't that, too, a result of karmic causes?
A similar attitude about karma could be applied to a tyrant or evil ruler, or genocide, other injustices in the world, should one act? Speak up? Do something? Or take a more passive approach and see It as something we can do nothing about? For many, Karma could become a form of fatalism, and one could also see how a bad ruler or the wealthy could use it to justify their behavior and tell the poor and oppressed to just "accept their lot".
Encountering Dharma is certainly a result of Karma, as are the conditions that would facilitate the ability to práctice it.
One should become the master of one’s mind rather than let one’s mind master oneself.
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Re: Buddhism's solution to abject poverty

Post by Malcolm »

Lotomístico wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 10:17 pm Could we say, then, that Buddhism is primarily focused (as are many if not most religions) on afterlife or future lives?
One could also see the negative aspect of seeing suffering people and saying, "well, it's their karma" as a way of easing one's conscience or absolving one's responsibility to be socially conscious. I experienced that in India and Thailand where many expresed this attitude to me. Of course, Karma Is the teaching of Buddhism (and Hinduism), but naturally if we help a needy person, isn't that, too, a result of karmic causes?
A similar attitude about karma could be applied to a tyrant or evil ruler, or genocide, other injustices in the world, should one act? Speak up? Do something? Or take a more passive approach and see It as something we can do nothing about? For many, Karma could become a form of fatalism, and one could also see how a bad ruler or the wealthy could use it to justify their behavior and tell the poor and oppressed to just "accept their lot".
Encountering Dharma is certainly a result of Karma, as are the conditions that would facilitate the ability to práctice it.
Buddhism is about personal evolution. If enough people evolve personally, the changes you want to see will happen. I wouldn't hold my breath though.
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Re: Buddhism's solution to abject poverty

Post by Lotomístico »

Malcolm wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 10:25 pm
Lotomístico wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 10:17 pm Could we say, then, that Buddhism is primarily focused (as are many if not most religions) on afterlife or future lives?
One could also see the negative aspect of seeing suffering people and saying, "well, it's their karma" as a way of easing one's conscience or absolving one's responsibility to be socially conscious. I experienced that in India and Thailand where many expresed this attitude to me. Of course, Karma Is the teaching of Buddhism (and Hinduism), but naturally if we help a needy person, isn't that, too, a result of karmic causes?
A similar attitude about karma could be applied to a tyrant or evil ruler, or genocide, other injustices in the world, should one act? Speak up? Do something? Or take a more passive approach and see It as something we can do nothing about? For many, Karma could become a form of fatalism, and one could also see how a bad ruler or the wealthy could use it to justify their behavior and tell the poor and oppressed to just "accept their lot".
Encountering Dharma is certainly a result of Karma, as are the conditions that would facilitate the ability to práctice it.
Buddhism is about personal evolution. If enough people evolve personally, the changes you want to see will happen. I wouldn't hold my breath though.
No, I'm not terribly optimistic myself, the fact that suffering is increasing in so many ways, people committing so many evil deeds and subsequently reaping the results in this or future existences.
One should become the master of one’s mind rather than let one’s mind master oneself.
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Re: Buddhism's solution to abject poverty

Post by Malcolm »

Lotomístico wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 10:32 pm
Malcolm wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 10:25 pm
Lotomístico wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 10:17 pm Could we say, then, that Buddhism is primarily focused (as are many if not most religions) on afterlife or future lives?
One could also see the negative aspect of seeing suffering people and saying, "well, it's their karma" as a way of easing one's conscience or absolving one's responsibility to be socially conscious. I experienced that in India and Thailand where many expresed this attitude to me. Of course, Karma Is the teaching of Buddhism (and Hinduism), but naturally if we help a needy person, isn't that, too, a result of karmic causes?
A similar attitude about karma could be applied to a tyrant or evil ruler, or genocide, other injustices in the world, should one act? Speak up? Do something? Or take a more passive approach and see It as something we can do nothing about? For many, Karma could become a form of fatalism, and one could also see how a bad ruler or the wealthy could use it to justify their behavior and tell the poor and oppressed to just "accept their lot".
Encountering Dharma is certainly a result of Karma, as are the conditions that would facilitate the ability to práctice it.
Buddhism is about personal evolution. If enough people evolve personally, the changes you want to see will happen. I wouldn't hold my breath though.
No, I'm not terribly optimistic myself, the fact that suffering is increasing in so many ways, people committing so many evil deeds and subsequently reaping the results in this or future existences.
Suffering is not increasing. You are just seeing it more clearly.
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Re: Buddhism's solution to abject poverty

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

Lotomístico wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 10:32 pm
Malcolm wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 10:25 pm
Lotomístico wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 10:17 pm Could we say, then, that Buddhism is primarily focused (as are many if not most religions) on afterlife or future lives?
One could also see the negative aspect of seeing suffering people and saying, "well, it's their karma" as a way of easing one's conscience or absolving one's responsibility to be socially conscious. I experienced that in India and Thailand where many expresed this attitude to me. Of course, Karma Is the teaching of Buddhism (and Hinduism), but naturally if we help a needy person, isn't that, too, a result of karmic causes?
A similar attitude about karma could be applied to a tyrant or evil ruler, or genocide, other injustices in the world, should one act? Speak up? Do something? Or take a more passive approach and see It as something we can do nothing about? For many, Karma could become a form of fatalism, and one could also see how a bad ruler or the wealthy could use it to justify their behavior and tell the poor and oppressed to just "accept their lot".
Encountering Dharma is certainly a result of Karma, as are the conditions that would facilitate the ability to práctice it.
Buddhism is about personal evolution. If enough people evolve personally, the changes you want to see will happen. I wouldn't hold my breath though.
No, I'm not terribly optimistic myself, the fact that suffering is increasing in so many ways, people committing so many evil deeds and subsequently reaping the results in this or future existences.
Gross types of suffering are reduced today for many people due to advances in technology, medicine, etc. Less so for people in the developing world for sure. However that is just the surface level, and a human-centric point of view. The analogy of the Deva realm is instructive, they spend so long gazing at one another's beauty they forgot the lower types of existence, until their skin cracks and they fall into them. Modernity in a nutshell.

The lesson is, there is no reasonable expectation of perfection or consistent happiness in phenomenal existence, the best you can hope for is a reduction in suffering and an increase in compassionate behavior.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared

-Khunu Lama
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PadmaVonSamba
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Joined: Sat May 14, 2011 1:41 am

Re: Buddhism's solution to abject poverty

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

In Taiwan, a heavily Mahayana country, The four main Buddhist organizations have taken it upon themselves (let’s say, responded to public insistence) to address concerns related to poverty. Probably the most well-known is the Tzu Chi organization’s construction of modern hospitals (https://tzuchihospital.com).
When I visited Taichung, twice I saw homeless people sleeping in under-street pedestrian tunnels, and in both instances, they were surrounded by new bags of groceries, very likely left by total strangers.
So, not only are there large-scale projects conducted by large-scale temple organizations, but the attitude of helping reaches all the way down to the individual.
Keep in mind, however, that Buddhist organizations are very well funded by their supporters. This isn’t the case in the west, where most Buddhist centers struggle just to get by.
Instead, groups such as JayCees, St.Jude’s Children’s Hospital and other organizations often associated with Christianity are often the ones bankrolling humanitarian projects, and it’s simply because those are the charities people donate to.
“Buddhism” doesn’t try to make samsara easier for people, but Buddhists certainly can. When one asks, “why doesn’t Buddhism do that?” The answer might be, “are you a Buddhist? What are you doing about solving these problems?”
EMPTIFUL.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
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Lotomístico
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Re: Buddhism's solution to abject poverty

Post by Lotomístico »

Valid points all, appreciate the replies
One should become the master of one’s mind rather than let one’s mind master oneself.
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